Manbush, no offense meant but are you one of those guys who drapes himself in an aussie flag/cape, covers his car in Australian flags, hurls abuse at pedestrians from his window and helps the non-official renamimg of Australia day to "Bogan Day".

Hell no, If read any posts on the subject you'd know I find them grubs, false patriotism as an excuse for violence. Draping yourself in the flag to me shows disrespect to it. Just because I pointed out these so called racist attacks are generally false and nit racially motivated doesn't mean I'm one of those idiots, I just don't get caught up in the propaganda and political correctness

Yer lol. I see them and i want to confront them cos they annoy me that much. It's just i don't because they're after that. There was talk on some radio stations about changing the aussie flag because people are using it as a racist symbol. No change thanks. We had our soldiers fight under that flag!!!

Not sure where I stand on changing the flag, no designs I've seen have impressed me though. As for soldiers fighting under the flag, they fought for freedom, and for Australia, under the flag, but not for it, and part of having freedom is I guess being able to change the flag.

As for those idiots who say we should change the flag because people use it as an excuse for violence, they'd use a new one in the same way.

Our currently flag has basically no relevence to who we are as a nation at this time - the vast majority of us have no alliegance or shared sense of identity with Britain, in any meaningful sense. As far as designs to, I think both the Aboriginal flag and the Souther Cross would make for a great flag, but it would be impossible to choose one without offending half the country, especially now the Southern Cross has been bastardized and is seen as mostly a symbol of ignorance.

The union Jack is just as rellevant to our history as the aboriginal flag/colours, if we were to get a new flag I'd want neither involved, with such a low aborigine population I'm guessing more Australians would share a meaningful identity with Britain.

The Eureka stockade flag is my favorite option if we were to change. Says more about about Australians than any of the others in my opinion

Id be keeping it just to piss off those kid's that burn them.

For all the wrong reasons, of late...

Burning the flag is an interesting one for me, personally find it more patriotic to burn the flag than wearing it getting pissed and running amok, burning the flag is generally done in protest against something wrong with the country, where a change for the worse is occuring, if Rudds Internet censorship goes ahead that would be a perfect example of when burning the flag would be appropriate. It's a symbolic gesture.

Wasn't it a symbol of violent rebellion against authority? Not sure if thats the right message when you're wanting to unify a nation. If you want to change the flag it would need to be brand new and devoid of any alternate symbolism.

Exactly - and now the Southern Cross which makes up the Eureka flag is (rightly or wrongly) seen as a symbol of bigotry and intolerance.

John Williamsons "Flag of our Own". It grows on you.

Why is that?

Because the Southern Cross was essentially used as the rallying symbol in the Cronulla riots, and because its been adopted and used in tattoos, stickers, signs painted on utes etc by the whole 'f**k off we're full/love it or leave it crowd' - whether you agree with these people is a debate which I don't intend to get into here, but I think you'll find that the Southern Cross has been permanently spoiled in the eyes of many Australians, probably myself included.

As I said, the rights/wrongs of this whole situation has been done to death here, and I'm sure Matt or Rowan will tell you I'm a limp-wristed, namby-pamby, tree-hugging ponce - that aside, I think that a large proportion of the Australian population, including just about anybody who isn't Anglo-Saxon, would not recognise the Southern Cross as being something they relate to and that it representative of them - therefore it wouldn't have any legitimacy.

I wasn't aware of the Southern Cross being used in such manner. I'd hate to think that the symbol of a constellation unique to the geographical location of this country could be tainted to that degree by a bunch of mindless bigots. Precluding it from use as a unifying symbol for the country would be an over reaction IMO. Even if you create a whole new symbol your still going to find some boofheads that use it like that.

Then there's the whole thing about people with Southern Cross tattoos being typically described as ignorant yobs.

Of course any flag/symbol can be distorted or ruined in that fashion, but, as I see it, why choose something that is already guarenteed to be used in that way and alienate so many people?

Personally I think they should only change the flag if/when we become an independent nation. No sense in changing it while we're tied to the British monarchy.

I find these pinko's are bigoted and intolerant.

Whatever happens to the flag, the Southern Cross is integral to it. Some minority group wants to distort it in recent times, too bad, for the vast majority of Australians it is part of our identity as a continent in the southern hemisphere and has been for a hundred years. I find it inspiring.

Yes inspiring,Good call. ,

Hence why I made it clear at least twice that I wasn't trying to get into a debate about it, because its old ground.

I think it's sad you let anyone misusing the symbol ruin it for you. If you abandon it because a few **** misuse it then they will be the only ones using it and it will pervert the meaning.

Like others in this thread I love the southern cross.

Look at it this way - I think its a very powerful symbol, which would make a great flag. But if I were to get it tattooed on myself, or drape it from my car or whatever, that wouldn't necessarily just be taken as an expression of national pride, because its become more than that. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any doubt that in the eyes of many people, the Southern Cross symbol has become tainted...when I see it, I can't help but think about the way its been bastardized.

Australians who are not accepting of what these minorities "stand for" and misuse our national symbol should say no, and not accept its misappropriation. Simply saying, I don't like idiots who get Southern Cross tattoos... well, who does? That doesn't mean we should accept them stealing the national symbol.

I think we're at cross-purposes here - I don't accept it, obviously I hate it as much as anyone. But the whole point about flags/symbols is that they trigger a visceral reaction, a gut-feeling - I can't help what I feel when I see the Southern Cross. I don't accept the way its been misappropriated and twisted, but at the same time that misappropriation is the first thing that springs to mind when I see it. If I think about it, then sure, I can overcome that - but that's not the purpose of a national flag. It's supposed to trigger an instant, primal feeling, not require analysis, if you know what I mean.

Ge ,would you please change my AV to be a Southern cross. Tah.

It's ok Matt, the pain I suffer when I read your posts cannot be made any worse by a Southern Cross avatar.

By the sounds of it i think it can

Sadly, the Southern Cross symbol has come to represent bigotry in recent years due to its hijacking by a percentage of the population who use it as a call to arms for "true Aussies". Most intelligent people know how irrational and absurd this is, but it has still tainted the Southern Cross image. However, this shouldn't be a reason why the majority of the population should have to abandon it, especially when its true meaning has nothing to do with bigotry.

I would hate to see Australia become like the UK, which is a nation that has had to distance itself from the Union Jack due to it being deemed a racist symbol thanks to skinheads and extreme right-wing political groups such as the National Front and British National Party which have used it as a symbol of their cause.

Whatever your national flag is it will become a misappropriated symbol at some stage. The only other choice is a plain white piece of cloth.

with a couple of doped out hippies crying into their mung beans.

Good idea Q, or could use this one, has the green and gold



I'd gladly salute it

Isn't it time you quit smoking pot on your couch watching day time television and eating doritos manbush?

On the issue above regarding Indians in Australia...You want racism? Check out the Times of India website forums. There are literally thousands of comments along the lines of "White dogs...scum who can't escape their convict DNA" "Australia is a country full of white rapists dogs" etc etc. No way those kind of comments could be printed in Australia. Ironically, too, that are in response to alleged racism in Australia.

And the mental abuse that the great man Andrew symonds had to put up with being called a monkey...just terrible