The Cricket Thread

[afgtnk]

The dearth of quality batsmen coming out the country in the last 5-10 years is pretty alarming and frankly puzzling.

When you grow up in an era where guys like Darren Lehmann and Michael Bevan are ruthlessly chopped/left out, and guys like Stuart Law and Jamie Siddons can't even get a look in, it's a big change to the present day where Moises **** Henriques can bat at #5 with a paltry first class average of just 30.

Until we start filling the order up with more world class batsman our current woes will only continue.

[Matt]

AFGTNK I agree. We have come/ fallen a long way in 20yrs.

[-TW-]

I dunno how we're so much better at odi than tests..

[Azza]

Because ODI's are generally played on flat, pancake wickets and we do well on those sorts of decks. Our deficiencies are only highlighted when our batsmen come up against surfaces where they actually have to have a semblance of skill to score runs. Hence why they suck on the subcontinent and when the ball swings in england.

[julian87]

The dearth of quality batsmen coming out the country in the last 5-10 years is pretty alarming and frankly puzzling.

When you grow up in an era where guys like Darren Lehmann and Michael Bevan are ruthlessly chopped/left out, and guys like Stuart Law and Jamie Siddons can't even get a look in, it's a big change to the present day where Moises **** Henriques can bat at #5 with a paltry first class average of just 30.

Until we start filling the order up with more world class batsman our current woes will only continue.

Pretty **** harsh to single out Moises Henriques when the golden child has had 30 innings at #6 and passed 50 twice.

[julian87]

We lost 8 for about 120, Mitch Marsh got nearly half.
Dead set, we cant bat against spin!

That's what happens when CA tells the curators to produce roads everywhere

Leave some juice in it and grass on it, and it will spin when it drys out

Yep. I've been banging the 'take the Aussie grounds back to their traditional decks' for ages.

'Gabba - needs to be green day 1 for the quicks, bounce for the spinners, and turn by day 5.
Sydney - batsmen friendly for days 1 and 2, but turn square by day 4 or 5.
Perth - fast and bouncy.
Adelaide - batsmen friendly, but turn day 4 and 5.
MCG - bit in it for everyone.

I'd suggest that besides the MCG pitch being **** most of those grounds have actually kept those characteristics. They may be honed back a bit but most are still the case.

[Azza]

Other than the Gabba and the SCG, I'd say the other pitches are bland highways. That includes Hobart too. The WACA is nowhere near as fast as it was, and Adelaide - ****, it's a bowler's nightmare.

[afgtnk]

The dearth of quality batsmen coming out the country in the last 5-10 years is pretty alarming and frankly puzzling.

When you grow up in an era where guys like Darren Lehmann and Michael Bevan are ruthlessly chopped/left out, and guys like Stuart Law and Jamie Siddons can't even get a look in, it's a big change to the present day where Moises **** Henriques can bat at #5 with a paltry first class average of just 30.

Until we start filling the order up with more world class batsman our current woes will only continue.

Pretty **** harsh to single out Moises Henriques when the golden child has had 30 innings at #6 and passed 50 twice.

Tbh I'd be just as harsh on Marsh if he was the one in the #5 side spot and not in the designated allrounder slot.

Looking back though, I can't believe there was a time not too long ago that we had all these players:

Lehmann
Siddons
Bevan
Hodge
Cox
Elliott
Love
Di Venuto
Blewett
Langer
Law
Katich
M Hussey
Jaques
Hayden
M Waugh
S Waugh
Ponting
Martyn

Playing together at the same time. Crazy when you compare it to the present.

[julian87]

#6 has never been a designated all rounder spot though. Top 6 has been full time batsmen and an all rounder is an absolute luxury if you find one. Averaging 30 is just not good enough to bat top 6, especially if you're a so so bowler like Marsh.

Henriques batting at 5 is disgusting but nowhere near as disgusting as the royal treatment Marsh has received. Shane Watson was forever admonished for performing Marsh's role at a much higher level. Every facet of the game was better too.

[afgtnk]

I agree Marsh is no where near good enough (or at least not right now). However ever since the '05 Ashes we've generally had an all rounder in the side, and Marsh is probably the best from a pretty poor bunch with age on his side.

[The Nickman]

I agree with Jules. Number 6 should be a batsman, and if one of your batsmen can bowl it's a bonus, but not a necessity.

[Matt]

Heres the thing guys, 10 yrs ago we only need 4 bowlers, because 2 of them were Warne and McGrath. We also had the luxury of Gilchrist at 7.

So its a 2 part problem.

#1 Bowling depth:
You simply cant replace a Warne and McGrath. Just cant. The best you can do is share the load. On Australian, Sth African and to a lesser extent English and New Zealand pitches we have 3 good enough quicks, but we are still a little short.

Now Lyon might be the offspinning 'GOAT', but he isnt nearly as good as any other offie Australia ever trotted out - Matthews, May and Co are better bowlers that lived in the era of Warne.

So, as we fall short in both departments, and the likes of Kallis and Flintoff were so sort after, we looked for an allrounder to fill the gap.

Watson had the technique and ability, but lacked confidence and application.

M Marsh is still young, and does seem to be on the improve. However, he will never be a Kallis or Flintoff. Henriques is a joke and should never play in the baggy green. You could argue short form, but thats it.

#2 Batting depth:
We managed to 'fill' Gilchrist shoes with Haddin. He was never going to be Gilly, but he was a quality replacement in his own right. Problem now is we have had those 2 guys that could have held down a spot in the side as a batsmen, let alone keeper.

We tried Wade, who can bat, when he choses to apply himself. But his hands are like concrete. So, we went to Nevill. Nevill looks the perfect choice too. Avgs 40+ and has great hands. Put him in a baggy green and he just looks like a great State player who is out of his depth at international level.

So, not only are we accomodating an allrounder who is handy with the bat, but we are playing a keeper who is the best we have, but not at international standard.

This means we can try to solve problem #1, but it compounds problem #2.

I dont think there is a solution, and Im glossing over the fact that our top 5 just isnt good enough.

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[-TW-]

MMarsh is growing on me, but he should be batting 7 at the highest

I'd definitely have Nevill ahead of him

[Matt]

MMarsh is growing on me, but he should be batting 7 at the highest

I'd definitely have Nevill ahead of him

Me 2 TBH.

I think he is improving, possibly not as quickly as we would like, but he still wont ever be a Flintoff or Kallis

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[-PJ-]

Gilchrist at #7, who will ever forget the way he tore bowling attacks to shreds ?

Making massive 100s batting 7, no one came close to that AUS side of 05-07.

[julian87]

but he isnt nearly as good as any other offie Australia ever trotted out - Matthews, May and Co are better bowlers that lived in the era of Warne.

Jesus titty-**** Christ that's a rubbish assertion. Greg Matthews was a batting all rounder that averaged 50 with the ball in test cricket and Tim May only mustered about 20 tests despite being on the scene a good 8 years before Shane Warne. Matthews and Warne barely overlapped at all as international cricketers. Lyon has 210 wickets @ 32 and plenty of those have come in struggling sides.

[julian87]

M Marsh is still young, and does seem to be on the improve. However, he will never be a Kallis or Flintoff. Henriques is a joke and should never play in the baggy green. You could argue short form, but thats it.

I'd like you to back up Moises Henriques being a joke here. What exactly makes him a joke?

Is it the fact he averages more with the bat than ball in first class cricket after 60 games? Is it his very good fielding? Or is it being thrust into the Australian team as a specialist batsman? Ah, no it must be because he's injury prone, that definitely makes him a joke.

And in actual fact there is not really a case at all to argue for him a short form player considering he's most definitely a better red ball player with both bat and ball.

[-PJ-]

Go Jules...

[julian87]

Batting depth being a problem and the failure of Nevill with the bat is spot on from Matt though. We've really struggled in that regard since Haddin's final 18 months (which was horrible) especially since Marsh has replaced Watson too.

[Matt]

M Marsh is still young, and does seem to be on the improve. However, he will never be a Kallis or Flintoff. Henriques is a joke and should never play in the baggy green. You could argue short form, but thats it.

I'd like you to back up Moises Henriques being a joke here. What exactly makes him a joke?

Is it the fact he averages more with the bat than ball in first class cricket after 60 games? Is it his very good fielding? Or is it being thrust into the Australian team as a specialist batsman? Ah, no it must be because he's injury prone, that definitely makes him a joke.

And in actual fact there is not really a case at all to argue for him a short form player considering he's most definitely a better red ball player with both bat and ball.

Moses is 29yr old, 1st class batting avg is 31. His bowling avg is 30. He has 4 innings in Tests, and of 164 runs, half came in 1 innings. His avg is nearly 24. He avgs 82! 82! With the ball. At nearly 30 he isnt going to get better.

Marsh is 24 yr old, with 30 and 28 respectively at 1st class level. Thats pretty even for 1st class, but 5 yrs younger. Marsh also avgs 24, but 36 with the ball. Marshs avg goes to nearly 39.5 in ODI, and bowling comes down to 31.

I must admit, those numbers are closer than i thought. So joke is harsh

[Matt]

If i get the computer out later i might be able to get better numbers. But im confident that Marsh is on an upward trend

[-TW-]

Tim Paines busted thumb really hurt us, he'd be our keeper in all forms now

[Matt]

Tim Paines busted thumb really hurt us, he'd be our keeper in all forms now

Very good chance, yes

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[Azza]

Marsh has potential I feel.

Henriques is almost as bad a selection as Glenn Maxwell batting no 3. in India last time around when we got whitewashed 4-0.

[julian87]

Whiteman is our long term keeper-batsman IMO. And if he develops well he's probably a number 6 rather than a 7.

[Matt]

Whiteman is our long term keeper-batsman IMO. And if he develops well he's probably a number 6 rather than a 7.

I like Whiteman too. Hope he kicks on this yr

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[Matt]

Marsh has potential I feel.

Henriques is almost as bad a selection as Glenn Maxwell batting no 3. in India last time around when we got whitewashed 4-0.

Maxwell is more infuriating because u can see the talent and the lack of application.

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[-PJ-]

AUS wins first ODI v SRI

[julian87]

AUS wins first ODI v SRI

The game was won by us between overs 25-40 of our bowling effort. They were cruising, lost 5 wickets way too quickly, as they hit the accelerator way too early. They really, really missed some middle over nous from Jayawardene and Sangakarra last night.

[Azza]

More pointless one day cricket, man who cares....

[-PJ-]

AUS wins first ODI v SRI

The game was won by us between overs 25-40 of our bowling effort. They were cruising, lost 5 wickets way too quickly, as they hit the accelerator way too early. They really, really missed some middle over nous from Jayawardene and Sangakarra last night.

I didn't even watch it. I knew it was on but after the Raiders and way too many bevvies I totally forgot about it.

The pitch was a howler apparently. Anyway of to a good start in the series.

And congrats to MStarc, 100 ODI wickets.

[-PJ-]

Game 3.
Toss won by SRI and they'll swing the willow.

[-PJ-]

AUS side game 3

Warner, Finch, Marsh, Bailey, Head, Wade, Faulkner, Hastings, Starc, Zampa, Hazlewood.

[Matt]

Got home... just

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[Chickas shoe]

but he isnt nearly as good as any other offie Australia ever trotted out - Matthews, May and Co are better bowlers that lived in the era of Warne.

Jesus titty-**** Christ that's a rubbish assertion. Greg Matthews was a batting all rounder that averaged 50 with the ball in test cricket and Tim May only mustered about 20 tests despite being on the scene a good 8 years before Shane Warne. Matthews and Warne barely overlapped at all as international cricketers. Lyon has 210 wickets @ 32 and plenty of those have come in struggling sides.

I totally agree - the Lyon kiddy does his job.