FROG wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 6:02 am
I think this is a ridiculous stance for the nrl to take. Im not an anti vaccer. My kids and pets are completely vacced up. The flu shot is where i draw the line. Not on principle but because I've witnessed time and time again that people who take the shot display flu like symptoms shortly after. Indeed the last time i had the flu 12 years ago followed the one time i had a flu shot. Im not referring to a sample size of one i manage a semi large team and i see it happen time and time again. Now i appreciate there is bias at play here and I've by no means conducted a controlled study, but the point is that at the very least, taking the flu shot does not prevent people from later experiencing flu like symptoms so why on earth would the nrl get so hung up on it
The evidence is clear You need to do more research on this, i assure you it will take you less than 10 minutes of googling to educate yourself.
Flu like symptoms after the shot is somewhat common but you need to understand the difference in what the body is doing... the flu shot is not a live virus so whilst the body is reacting to it as if it was, which is why people can sometimes feel unwell, they aren't actually unwell, it's just the body responding to the flu vax and essentially learning how to fight it so that next time it encounters it, it has the answers to the text
Last edited by Botman on May 7, 2020, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
looks like we need to wait for a Polynesian country to lower their immunization rates and have an outbreak before these guys start putting their "faith" into science.....
So just to clarify the lads modified a waiver that allowed them to train and play without having a flu shot....because the wording stated that you’re more likely to get the flu if you’re not immunised.....???? Please tell me I’m wrong.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 8:43 am
Imagine if our premiership window gets closed because of this rubbish.
I mean one of these guys hit ups does more damage to them than the flu shot.
The fact Sia is involved in this is what i think disappoints me most
I held him at an extremely high regard and had pictured him as the sort of socially conscious smart guy in the team who could help bridge the gap between the culture issues and clear science for guys in the team who had some concerns... really disappointing.
Chicka Chicka Chicka wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 8:46 am
So just to clarify the lads modified a waiver that allowed them to train and play without having a flu shot....because the wording stated that you’re more likely to get the flu if you’re not immunised.....???? Please tell me I’m wrong.
From the reports we've got so far, that's exactly what it is.
simo wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 8:42 am
looks like we need to wait for a Polynesian country to lower their immunization rates and have an outbreak before these guys start putting their "faith" into science.....
Sadly, that has already happened. Over 80 people, mostly children recently died in Samoa after an outbreak of measles. It is a disease that is preventable.
Yeah I’m frustrated by Sia too. How can he regularly work with homeless people who are so vulnerable to Flu and not get the flu shot himself to better protect these poor people.
Timbo wrote: ↑May 6, 2020, 11:43 pm
Unless the three of them have used the off season to get PhDs in immunology they should shut the **** up and do what their doctors say.
As for Tapine claiming religion? Unless you’re going teetotal as well Joe, save it you hypocrite.
There are few people I loathe more than anti-vaxxers. Lowering herd immunity and putting people with ACTUAL conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated at risk because they saw a video on Facebook once about vaccines.
It’s ignorant and it’s selfish. I won’t be looking at the three of them the same way again.
To be fair though, that's what the Sharks and Bombers players did, and that didn't go down well.
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
Timbo wrote: ↑May 6, 2020, 11:43 pm
Unless the three of them have used the off season to get PhDs in immunology they should shut the **** up and do what their doctors say.
As for Tapine claiming religion? Unless you’re going teetotal as well Joe, save it you hypocrite.
There are few people I loathe more than anti-vaxxers. Lowering herd immunity and putting people with ACTUAL conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated at risk because they saw a video on Facebook once about vaccines.
It’s ignorant and it’s selfish. I won’t be looking at the three of them the same way again.
To be fair though, that's what the Sharks and Bombers players did, and that didn't go down well.
Ummmmm I think you will find Steven Dank was a sports scientist not a doctor or immunologist.
simo wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 8:42 am
looks like we need to wait for a Polynesian country to lower their immunization rates and have an outbreak before these guys start putting their "faith" into science.....
Sadly, that has already happened. Over 80 people, mostly children recently died in Samoa after an outbreak of measles. It is a disease that is preventable.
thats a good old fashioned dub right there GE. just what we needed in these tough times.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 9:54 am
To be fair though, that's what the Sharks and Bombers players did, and that didn't go down well.
Worked out fine for the Sharks
But as said above, we're talking about listening to doctors... not an ethically compromised sports scientist.
Fair call. I was just trying to look at it from all angles. I think it's silly from a religious or anti-vaxx perspective, the only argument that made any sense to me would be an illegal substance or allergy perspective.
Carry on
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
simo wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 8:42 am
looks like we need to wait for a Polynesian country to lower their immunization rates and have an outbreak before these guys start putting their "faith" into science.....
Sadly, that has already happened. Over 80 people, mostly children recently died in Samoa after an outbreak of measles. It is a disease that is preventable.
I've seen (not sure how credible it was) that a botched vaccination caused deaths, so it was widely boycotted
Canberra Raiders err on side of caution with anti-vaccination trio
Canberra forwards Sia Soliola, Josh Papalii and Joseph Tapine will return to training on Thursday after refusing to comply with the NRL's compulsory flu vaccination policy.
"Clearly the boys want to be back at training," Raiders CEO Don Furner said. "They want to train and we want them there. We're just working through the right protocols with the NRL. We are getting them back to training today and then we'll await further information and instruction from the NRL."
Canberra Raiders teammates back trio over NRL vaccination protest
The Canberra Raiders star trio who refused to sign an unmodified NRL waiver in regards to a flu shot have the support of their teammates.
"It's a tough one man. I've grown up and got the jabs as it as as anyone does," Michael Oldfield said. "Obviously for whatever reason they don't. I believe that's their choice. If that's their choice I support them.
I will state from the outset that I am certainly not against vaccines, I haven't personally got the flu shot before, I probably will this year (work offers to pay for it every year but it is certainly not compulsory). I have however got other vaccines in the past and have been to a number of countries that won't let you in unless you have a yellow fever vaccine certificate with your passport. I do believe that if the NRL is saying these players should have the vaccine, they should comply.
However, on this matter, I am confused as to what is being reported.
Presumably if there is a waiver for the players to sign, it is not compulsory for NRL players to get the flu shot. It seems the NRL are strongly recommending it, but there is no current rule in place along the lines of what the PM was talking about yesterday when he suggested, "no jab, no play".
What I don't understand is what is the waiver trying to do. It sounds like they crossed out a line that suggested that they are more at risk of the flu if they don't get the flu shot. That is either a statement of fact or an opinion depending on your beliefs. That is not a waiver. A waiver is normally a legal provision that means that you acknowledge a risk and then if something goes wrong, you don't have legal recourse. (that in itself is debatable at times - but we won't go there for now).
Are we suggesting that the players are not willing to indemnify the NRL or the Raiders from any legal recourse if they get the flu during this time?
Bay53 wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 11:04 am
I will state from the outset that I am certainly not against vaccines, I haven't personally got the flu shot before, I probably will this year (work offers to pay for it every year but it is certainly not compulsory). I have however got other vaccines in the past and have been to a number of countries that won't let you in unless you have a yellow fever vaccine certificate with your passport. I do believe that if the NRL is saying these players should have the vaccine, they should comply.
However, on this matter, I am confused as to what is being reported.
Presumably if there is a waiver for the players to sign, it is not compulsory for NRL players to get the flu shot. It seems the NRL are strongly recommending it, but there is no current rule in place along the lines of what the PM was talking about yesterday when he suggested, "no jab, no play".
What I don't understand is what is the waiver trying to do. It sounds like they crossed out a line that suggested that they are more at risk of the flu if they don't get the flu shot. That is either a statement of fact or an opinion depending on your beliefs. That is not a waiver. A waiver is normally a legal provision that means that you acknowledge a risk and then if something goes wrong, you don't have legal recourse. (that in itself is debatable at times - but we won't go there for now).
Are we suggesting that the players are not willing to indemnify the NRL or the Raiders from any legal recourse if they get the flu during this time?
I don't think the players considered the legal ramifications because as you suggest it doesn't make much sense at all to cross a waiver out. I'd bet most likely somewhere in a group chat some sharp mind declared the NRL was trying to force them to get a flu shot against their will and this was their response.
Timbo wrote: ↑May 6, 2020, 11:43 pm
Unless the three of them have used the off season to get PhDs in immunology they should shut the **** up and do what their doctors say.
As for Tapine claiming religion? Unless you’re going teetotal as well Joe, save it you hypocrite.
There are few people I loathe more than anti-vaxxers. Lowering herd immunity and putting people with ACTUAL conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated at risk because they saw a video on Facebook once about vaccines.
It’s ignorant and it’s selfish. I won’t be looking at the three of them the same way again.
To be fair though, that's what the Sharks and Bombers players did, and that didn't go down well.
Ummmmm I think you will find Steven Dank was a sports scientist not a doctor or immunologist.
Can we please get Dank into administer our shots? 3 parts horse blood to every 1 part flu vaccination equals NRL CHAMPIONS.
I’m also getting tired and angry at seeing this referred to as a matter of opinion.
99% of what doctors and scientists say is not the same as a video your cousin Keighleen who sells MLM and who wears a ‘wine mummy’ t-shirt shared on Facebook.
It’s not opinion. It’s fact vs ignorant entitlement.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is just the train that's about to hit you.
Let's look at this from the POV of who the players are and of course this is only my belief, much like their's is not to vaccinate.
On past performance, Tapine will do something that either gets him suspended or sidelined with injury.
Sia is getting on in years and is playing limited time. We should be looking to replace him him anyway.
Papalii is the only player out of that three who makes constant impacts in every game. While reporters claim that Sia lifts his team mates with his presence, I have no doubt about that being the case with Josh.
That said, if it's a case of jeopardising the entire season, then they should either be stood down or forced into even tougher protocols. Maybe a full body disinfection spray before training?
We've got some good young guns coming up. So, if all three are stood down, it is NOT season over. It's more like "we're hungry for your place in the side, now f off and get out of my way".
Some people talk about the weather. Others do something about it.
MEMBER NO.: 4500 (before they changed the numbering system).
yurithe1 wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 1:05 pm
Let's look at this from the POV of who the players are and of course this is only my belief, much like their's is not to vaccinate.
On past performance, Tapine will do something that either gets him suspended or sidelined with injury.
Sia is getting on in years and is playing limited time. We should be looking to replace him him anyway.
Papalii is the only player out of that three who makes constant impacts in every game. While reporters claim that Sia lifts his team mates with his presence, I have no doubt about that being the case with Josh.
That said, if it's a case of jeopardising the entire season, then they should either be stood down or forced into even tougher protocols. Maybe a full body disinfection spray before training?
We've got some good young guns coming up. So, if all three are stood down, it is NOT season over. It's more like "we're hungry for your place in the side, now f off and get out of my way".
A full body disinfectant spray will do sweet **** all against a virus that you breathe in.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is just the train that's about to hit you.
edwahu wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 11:10 amI don't think the players considered the legal ramifications because as you suggest it doesn't make much sense at all to cross a waiver out. I'd bet most likely somewhere in a group chat some sharp mind declared the NRL was trying to force them to get a flu shot against their will and this was their response.
Its sort of similar to something Paul Kent said over the weekend. They were talking about the potential player revolt over wages etc, and he mentioned one of the coaches told him a player on his roster was asking questions about his wages. Thing was, the words he was using in that discussion weren't the kind of words this player would typically use.
They then went on to talk about how there's 2 player managers out there stirring the pot, because the arrangements being proposed don't suit them. I would not be surprised if this is something similar. I'd be interested to see if these 3 + Cartwright share the same player agent
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
NRL and clubs need to be strong here and not pander. Vaccine efficacy has been a proven fact and for decades is no longer a matter of opinion or debate. Any potential side effects, of which many claimed are either false or falsely attributed, far far outweigh the negative. Vaccines have saved millions and millions of lives.
I would be more than happy for the NRL to refuse any player registration who doesn’t want to be vaccinated for moral or religious reasons. The players are free to refuse but they shouldn’t play NRL and need to understand the jobs and lives they are putting at risk.
What turnips. Objecting to the wording of the contract. Idiots.
If they are such special snowflakes they cannot for one moment put their pen to that paper in good conscience then ok, don't mar the corners of thy beard or work on the sabbath either.
If it costs us a premiership it sux but so be it. They can sit out and see how much they like laying bricks and staying holy. I'd say the same if 3 jokers from any other club had done it it so I'll say the same for these three. Sit them down.
yurithe1 wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 1:05 pm
Let's look at this from the POV of who the players are and of course this is only my belief, much like their's is not to vaccinate.
On past performance, Tapine will do something that either gets him suspended or sidelined with injury.
Sia is getting on in years and is playing limited time. We should be looking to replace him him anyway.
Papalii is the only player out of that three who makes constant impacts in every game. While reporters claim that Sia lifts his team mates with his presence, I have no doubt about that being the case with Josh.
That said, if it's a case of jeopardising the entire season, then they should either be stood down or forced into even tougher protocols. Maybe a full body disinfection spray before training?
We've got some good young guns coming up. So, if all three are stood down, it is NOT season over. It's more like "we're hungry for your place in the side, now f off and get out of my way".
A full body disinfectant spray will do sweet **** all against a virus that you breathe in.
True, but I'll bet you still use the sanitiser on offer at shops.
Some people talk about the weather. Others do something about it.
MEMBER NO.: 4500 (before they changed the numbering system).
Finite wrote: ↑May 7, 2020, 1:34 pm
NRL and clubs need to be strong here and not pander. Vaccine efficacy has been a proven fact and for decades is no longer a matter of opinion or debate. Any potential side effects, of which many claimed are either false or falsely attributed, far far outweigh the negative. Vaccines have saved millions and millions of lives.
I would be more than happy for the NRL to refuse any player registration who doesn’t want to be vaccinated for moral or religious reasons. The players are free to refuse but they shouldn’t play NRL and need to understand the jobs and lives they are putting at risk.
Are we walking into Israel Folau territory here? Just asking.
Some people talk about the weather. Others do something about it.
MEMBER NO.: 4500 (before they changed the numbering system).
I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it has been mentioned but didn’t Hopoate try and refuse to play on Sundays a few years back on religious grounds.
He may have missed one or two games but when push came to shove he miraculously changed his mind.
If the NRL was to put in place a hard line stance I am sure very few players would opt to stand aside without pay.
Ridiculous stance if reports are true. Sign the waiver boys. I am not up on the supposed religious aspect of this to comment on that. If that is legitimate we must respect it. But, if I am to be honest, my gut is telling me it is just being used as an excuse to support their anti-vacc views. Much like Latrell and The Foxx used culture as an excuse for breaking social distancing laws.
ARL Commission to determine Canberra Raiders trio's fate
Josh Papalii, Sia Soliola and Joe Tapine were back at training on Thursday, but their fate lies in the hands of the ARL Commission. The ARLC will meet on Thursday to decide what to do about players who refuse to either have the flu injection or sign a waiver. They're required to do so as part of the COVID-19 return-to-play protocols.
"We wrote to the NRL last night to seek permission for them to train in the interim while a decision's being made in the background." Matt Ford said.
