2024 Round 4 v Sharks: Game Day

[Rickmando]

Ricky royally pissed off in the presser. No blaming refs which is good, not his standard petulant "What did you make of it?" retorts. Brutally honest.

This is reassuring.

As with most of our losses, looking in-house is really where to start the blame game. (Goes equally for the man in the mirror too - although to be fair tonight the coach isn’t the one out there dropping balls or giving away dumb penalties)

[Begbie]

Settle down. Yes he had a nightmare of a game - but it was his first game back! Like Rickmando said, quality player - probably one of our best last year in any fair person's mind. He'll be back, better than ever.

[NoMan]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

We need to have a go at somebody better than Sanders imo

Who?

And please talk about players you've seen play more than once or twice and which are realistic targets.

Somebody who is playing first grade now or who could play in the next 12 months. He is a 18 year old ****. He is years away and if you think you need replace Fogarty quickly then he isn’t your answer.

ah yeah, that guy!

Nobody expects him to come straight in and carve teams up or thinks he is guaranteed to be a star. There's a reason the club has made him a horse head offer though.

[HoraceBigCigar]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Was gonna post the same thing. Our spine doesn’t have one “elite” player (Strange looks like he might be but not yet). I think if you rate 1-17 for the comp for the 4 positions we are in the bottom 4….

[julian87]

The biggest problem with the actual team (that realistically can fight for the 8 at best) is that they rolled over from 18-0 up.

Yes I know that’s obvious. Fog will never win a premiership. Rapana is a fill in. Etc etc.

But the team needs the best selections and the best future players presented. And keeping Saulo over Mooney and Guler is gross. Everyone hates Emre but he’s the big body like the main 2 and takes the same tough hit ups. I’d wager Mooney does the same. But Saulo takes play number 4 and 5 runs and impresses everyone. He’s the worst prop in the club and should be treated as such imo.

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

We need to have a go at somebody better than Sanders imo

Who?

And please talk about players you've seen play more than once or twice and which are realistic targets.

Somebody who is playing first grade now or who could play in the next 12 months. He is a 18 year old ****. He is years away and if you think you need replace Fogarty quickly then he isn’t your answer.

ah yeah, that guy!

Nobody expects him to come straight in and carve teams up or thinks he is guaranteed to be a star. There's a reason the club has made him a horse head offer though.

Sure they don’t. Have you seen the comments here? Every bloke who plays well in reserve grade is the next superstar and when they have one bad performance in first grade and they demand them to be hooked on the spot.

That kid needs development - a lot of development. If we are going him a horse head offer (as you say) then that implies we think that he is going to solve all our issues.

[Hong Kong Raider]

This will be a test of Stuart's coaching. We didn't lose by offloads or playing expansive football in our 20. We lost due to our bad handling in both 20 m zones. I hope we don't go back into our shells as we need to throw some attack at teams. We just couldn't hang onto the ball long enough tonight.

He will be tempted to drop Savage, Schiller and Horse but I hope they are given one more chance to redeem themselves.

[julian87]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Our grandest problem is that Jamal Fogarty is our most nailed on spine player.

You can not question that. There is no questioning that.

[Azza]

This club is just one depressing blow after another until you just wish Flanders was dead

[Colk]

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Our grandest problem is that Jamal Fogarty is our most nailed on spine player.

You can not question that. There is no questioning that.

That is what I’m implying. He is not great by any means but he is the least of our problems. Let that sink in

[Colk]

This club is just one depressing blow after another until you just wish Flanders was dead

[Colk]

The biggest problem with the actual team (that realistically can fight for the 8 at best) is that they rolled over from 18-0 up.

Yes I know that’s obvious. Fog will never win a premiership. Rapana is a fill in. Etc etc.

But the team needs the best selections and the best future players presented. And keeping Saulo over Mooney and Guler is gross. Everyone hates Emre but he’s the big body like the main 2 and takes the same tough hit ups. I’d wager Mooney does the same. But Saulo takes play number 4 and 5 runs and impresses everyone. He’s the worst prop in the club and should be treated as such imo.

Agreed.

[NoMan]

Sure they don’t. Have you seen the comments here? Every bloke who plays well in reserve grade is the next superstar and when they have one bad performance in first grade and they demand them to be hooked on the spot.

That kid needs development - a lot of development. If we are going him a horse head offer (as you say) then that implies we think that he is going to solve all our issues.

That's not what they are doing, he fits into a strategy that is about the only one that has a chance of working and isn't just your typical supercoach pipe dream.

[cat]

On a completely different point if the NRL are saying canberra stadium is not fit for NRL matches how the hell is shark Park?

A "sell out" is just over 12k , 90% of the toilets are port o loos, the lighting was shocking , the change rooms are old fashion sheds , the list goes on

Sharks need to be playing at Kogarah until they get up to standard

[Dr Greenthumb]

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

Hawkins is 25 years old. He has zero upside.

[Azza]

Flaaandeeeerrrrsssss….

[Raidernation]

We were outworked and out enthused, coupled with errors and that's the game.

At the end of the day fogs is our half and we know what he does well and doesn't but we do need to see some playmaking from strange at some point weather good or bad.
We need to see more from Mariota also. He has really struggled making an impact off the bench so far in his career.

[Rickmando]

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

Hawkins is 25 years old. He has zero upside.

So…. Basically the same age that Fogarty entered the league as a full time player?

[Billy Walker]

On a completely different point if the NRL are saying canberra stadium is not fit for NRL matches how the hell is shark Park?

A "sell out" is just over 12k , 90% of the toilets are port o loos, the lighting was shocking , the change rooms are old fashion sheds , the list goes on

Sharks need to be playing at Kogarah until they get up to standard

Interesting

[Dr Greenthumb]

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

Hawkins is 25 years old. He has zero upside.

So…. Basically the same age that Fogarty entered the league as a full time player?

You’ll have to point me to the part where I’ve said anything about Fogarty. You said Hawkins has upside, but he doesn’t. Illias will be back in the team within weeks.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Watching Savage in tackles, I think he's dropping the ball because he's flailing about with his arms. I don't think it's poor handling per se, he just needs to submit in the tackle

Rapa had the same issue until he started putting his body between defender and ball. Rapa is an animal for putting his body on the line though. Savage still looks very reluctant to do that.

I’m not sure about that. Savage has plenty he needs to fix but I’ve been impressed with his willingness to put his body on the line

He's making effort plays diving on the ball rather than trying to scoop up and go the distance. I think you can see that is going against his instinct.

It's more heading into contact I think he has a fair way to go. I'd still have him there though as we really have very little in attack without some speed on the fringes.

[Rickmando]

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

Hawkins is 25 years old. He has zero upside.

So…. Basically the same age that Fogarty entered the league as a full time player?

You’ll have to point me to the part where I’ve said anything about Fogarty. You said Hawkins has upside, but he doesn’t. Illias will be back in the team within weeks.

My point being if you wrote Fogarty off at a similar age, he doesn’t go on to a point where he’s still playing in the NRL at 31.

I’ll take the 25 year old I haven’t seen much of vs the 31 year old that I have.

But even if that one’s a push. That’s 3/16.

[BJ]

Hudson Young needs to understand he’s on the Refs tip sheet, for pushes, strips, hold downs, face pushes, step off the mark, etc.

He needs to focus on avoiding anything the refs are going to call him out on. He’s not helping himself or the team by playing without enough control of his mind or his million mile an hour movements.

[Rickmando]

Hudson Young needs to understand he’s on the Refs tip sheet, for pushes, strips, hold downs, face pushes, step off the mark, etc.

He needs to focus on avoiding anything the refs are going to call him out on. He’s not helping himself or the team by playing without enough control of his mind or his million mile an hour movements.

Maybe he could put some of that excess energy into bending the line a bit??

[Billy Walker]

Watching Savage in tackles, I think he's dropping the ball because he's flailing about with his arms. I don't think it's poor handling per se, he just needs to submit in the tackle

Rapa had the same issue until he started putting his body between defender and ball. Rapa is an animal for putting his body on the line though. Savage still looks very reluctant to do that.

I’m not sure about that. Savage has plenty he needs to fix but I’ve been impressed with his willingness to put his body on the line

He's making effort plays diving on the ball rather than trying to scoop up and go the distance. I think you can see that is going against his instinct.

It's more heading into contact I think he has a fair way to go. I'd still have him there though as we really have very little in attack without some speed on the fringes.

He’s got to be on one of the wings I believe

[Botman]

Hudson Young needs to understand he’s on the Refs tip sheet, for pushes, strips, hold downs, face pushes, step off the mark, etc.

He needs to focus on avoiding anything the refs are going to call him out on. He’s not helping himself or the team by playing without enough control of his mind or his million mile an hour movements.

Hudson Young needs to stop playing the tough and starting playing some football.
On form he should be in cup. Dreadful for nearing on a calandar year now. He's one of our highest paid players and he stakes by too much on this site.

[Seiffert82]

I dont think there is a lot to say about individual performances today
Trying to pin a **** show like that on 3-4 blokes is a fools errend and lets the other 13 odd blokes off the hook. Dreadful performance up and down the 17

Sorry, but that loss can absolutely be pinned on the discipline of a handful of players.

The majority of our players did their jobs and shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

Not sure I agree. The discipline of the wingers, Horsburgh, Young and Fogarty?

Without the wingers Cronulla score first.

I appreciate the Guler vs Saulo debate regarding the roles they play. It's certainly a consideration, but has little to do with our performance today.

I also understand the desire for the fans to see Schiller's speed on the wing. His issue has never been the ability to score tries, it's his lack of ability in stopping them and his errors. That's exactly what we saw today.

I'm sure many people have theories on what went wrong today. In my humble opinion our handling was atrocious and a few major defensive lapses let us down. When we played decent football we were smashing them.

It had almost nothing to do with Fogarty or Saulo.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

[Colk]

Sure they don’t. Have you seen the comments here? Every bloke who plays well in reserve grade is the next superstar and when they have one bad performance in first grade and they demand them to be hooked on the spot.

That kid needs development - a lot of development. If we are going him a horse head offer (as you say) then that implies we think that he is going to solve all our issues.

That's not what they are doing, he fits into a strategy that is about the only one that has a chance of working and isn't just your typical supercoach pipe dream.

Well what is their strategy if it’s not a hit and hope? Sometimes you have to be realistic about things - he is miles away and until he starts pulling up proverbial trees in reserve grade I wouldn’t be holding up much hope.

Btw the whole we can’t get anyone is c****. There are blokes playing reserve grade now that are better bets than Ethan Sanders. If you are a betting man I would put more money on Blaze and Matt Arthur being stars than Ethan and that is just Parramatta.

[raider1981]

Rick didn’t say the word in the press conference. Taps nearly did. They got complacent. Shocking loss. After being 18 nil up. We lost all momentum when Taps and Papali went off. Horse and Saulo were terrible. Not sure why he didn’t bring Mariota on for Papali. He should be first prop off the bench. Must be changes. Horse needs to go back to cup for 4-6 weeks to get fit. Saulo needs to be replaced for Mooney. Schiller needs to go for Hopa and I would keep Zavier but on thin ice.

[Botman]

Watching Savage in tackles, I think he's dropping the ball because he's flailing about with his arms. I don't think it's poor handling per se, he just needs to submit in the tackle

Rapa had the same issue until he started putting his body between defender and ball. Rapa is an animal for putting his body on the line though. Savage still looks very reluctant to do that.

I’m not sure about that. Savage has plenty he needs to fix but I’ve been impressed with his willingness to put his body on the line

He's making effort plays diving on the ball rather than trying to scoop up and go the distance. I think you can see that is going against his instinct.

It's more heading into contact I think he has a fair way to go. I'd still have him there though as we really have very little in attack without some speed on the fringes.

He’s got to be on one of the wings I believe

If you're going to put trust in Savage, and you're going to give him this spot to a player like him, you cant just drop him the second he has a bad game. if you believed in him enough to start the year and be the #1 winger, you have to ride through a tough game... be hard on him for sure, that video session will be tough... but stick by him

[Neeeegz]

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

Hawkins is 25 years old. He has zero upside.

So…. Basically the same age that Fogarty entered the league as a full time player?

You’ll have to point me to the part where I’ve said anything about Fogarty. You said Hawkins has upside, but he doesn’t. Illias will be back in the team within weeks.

I'd like someone to call illias and talk about a mid season switch, fog to 14. Woolford starting

[BJ]

Does anyone know how many of their tries either involved a mistake by us on our last set leading up to their posesession or a very weak effort in the play. Surely most of them.

So many unforced errors.

[Colk]

I dont think there is a lot to say about individual performances today
Trying to pin a **** show like that on 3-4 blokes is a fools errend and lets the other 13 odd blokes off the hook. Dreadful performance up and down the 17

Sorry, but that loss can absolutely be pinned on the discipline of a handful of players.

The majority of our players did their jobs and shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

Not sure I agree. The discipline of the wingers, Horsburgh, Young and Fogarty?

Without the wingers Cronulla score first.

I appreciate the Guler vs Saulo debate regarding the roles they play. It's certainly a consideration, but has little to do with our performance today.

I also understand the desire for the fans to see Schiller's speed on the wing. His issue has never been the ability to score tries, it's his lack of ability in stopping them and his errors. That's exactly what we saw today.

I'm sure many people have theories on what went wrong today. In my humble opinion our handling was atrocious and a few major defensive lapses let us down. When we played decent football we were smashing them.

It had almost nothing to do with Fogarty or Saulo.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

Agreed. It is just a general overreaction. We couldn’t hold on to the ball. You could have Andrew Johns as halfback and you won’t win if you can’t hold on to the ball

[Neeeegz]

Rapa had the same issue until he started putting his body between defender and ball. Rapa is an animal for putting his body on the line though. Savage still looks very reluctant to do that.

I’m not sure about that. Savage has plenty he needs to fix but I’ve been impressed with his willingness to put his body on the line

He's making effort plays diving on the ball rather than trying to scoop up and go the distance. I think you can see that is going against his instinct.

It's more heading into contact I think he has a fair way to go. I'd still have him there though as we really have very little in attack without some speed on the fringes.

He’s got to be on one of the wings I believe

If you're going to put trust in Savage, and you're going to give him this spot to a player like him, you cant just drop him the second he has a bad game. if you believed in him enough to start the year and be the #1 winger, you have to ride through a tough game... be hard on him for sure, that video session will be tough... but stick by him

Yep Schiller and savage will be better for the run, stick with them, they are our best wingers right now imo

[Rickmando]

Let me be clear - I’m not pinning the loss on Fogarty. Rarely would I pin any loss on an individual player anyway, it’s rare you can attribute such a belting to one specific cause.

What I’m saying is - when we go behind on the scoreboard, or even when we enter a period where the momentum is swinging away from us, Fogarty offers ZERO ability to get us back into the game. It becomes an inevitability that he isn’t capable of standing up and getting us back in the game.

Now if we were playing from in front 80% of the time like Penrith… no dramas! But I’m getting sick of seeing the same scenarios pop up and our #7 just go missing time and time again. He plays very uninspiring football.