The Politics Thread 2021

Discuss all the events of the day

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 7:45 pm **** that cheese eating surrender monkey

I mean i dont really understand what the **** australian needs subs for, like the greatest risk to this country is some country landing on our shore in darwin and what? marching on the capital from there? Good luck to them on that journey

If australia comes into any kind of serious conflict i doubt the best subs in the world will save us when it's drones, nukes and cyber warefare that's going on... so im pretty out on paying even a dollar for submarines but also, the french are really being ramping up the sooking on this to 11.
There is no threat that anyone is going to invade Australia.

The issue is that the Chinese have claimed the entirety of the South China Sea, and fortified it with artificial islands from which they can deny Australia (and all of SE Asia) access to almost all of our trade routes. The only possible way for Australia to combat this is to have fortified islands of our own - and the only way we can do that is nuclear submarines.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote: November 2, 2021, 8:47 pm Macron calls ScoMo
A liar, but did he get
Morrison’s subtext
Ok, firstly, that was very good. I actually laughed at that.

Secondly, poetry kills. We've established that.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41990
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

T_R wrote: November 2, 2021, 8:48 pm
Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 7:45 pm **** that cheese eating surrender monkey

I mean i dont really understand what the **** australian needs subs for, like the greatest risk to this country is some country landing on our shore in darwin and what? marching on the capital from there? Good luck to them on that journey

If australia comes into any kind of serious conflict i doubt the best subs in the world will save us when it's drones, nukes and cyber warefare that's going on... so im pretty out on paying even a dollar for submarines but also, the french are really being ramping up the sooking on this to 11.
There is no threat that anyone is going to invade Australia.

The issue is that the Chinese have claimed the entirety of the South China Sea, and fortified it with artificial islands from which they can deny Australia (and all of SE Asia) access to almost all of our trade routes. The only possible way for Australia to combat this is to have fortified islands of our own - and the only way we can do that is nuclear submarines.
OK, i can understand that theoretically... but combat that?

And i ask this earnestly, is there any realistic chance we're deploying these nuclear submarines in an act of agression/defence on our own unless it was open warfare... its hard to imagine we'd wage war against China unless it we were heavily supported by allied reinforcments... or is this more a more of a insurance policy style/message sending thing to at least theoretically capable of making an aggressive move even if its really not really practically something we'd consider?
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 9:05 pm
T_R wrote: November 2, 2021, 8:48 pm
Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 7:45 pm **** that cheese eating surrender monkey

I mean i dont really understand what the **** australian needs subs for, like the greatest risk to this country is some country landing on our shore in darwin and what? marching on the capital from there? Good luck to them on that journey

If australia comes into any kind of serious conflict i doubt the best subs in the world will save us when it's drones, nukes and cyber warefare that's going on... so im pretty out on paying even a dollar for submarines but also, the french are really being ramping up the sooking on this to 11.
There is no threat that anyone is going to invade Australia.

The issue is that the Chinese have claimed the entirety of the South China Sea, and fortified it with artificial islands from which they can deny Australia (and all of SE Asia) access to almost all of our trade routes. The only possible way for Australia to combat this is to have fortified islands of our own - and the only way we can do that is nuclear submarines.
OK, i can understgand the theoretically... but combat that?

And i ask this earnestly, is there any realistic chance we're deploying these nuclear submarines in an act of agression/defence on our own unless it was open warfare... its hard to imagine we'd wage war against China unless it we were heavily supported by allied reinforcments... or is this more a more of a insurance policy style/message sending thing to at least theoretically capable of making an aggressive move even if its really not really practically something we'd consider?
A and B, I guess. These things are serious tech, Botman...it's astounding the the US was prepared to share. The French diesel subs we had on order were next to useless; they would have been oil slicks quite literally in the first few hours of any serious conflict. These nuclear jobs are invisible. They are quite simply impossible to find.

And if you're China, and you're in the mood for a flex in whatever world we're in in 2040 when these things are online...well, the fact that one could be parked off Shanghai will a full load of cruise missiles might just make you think for a minute or two before hitting a button.

Read Turnbull's bio. He talks about a time the US asked us to join them in a 'freedom of navigation' exercise through the SCC. He declined, and his argument was that while China wouldn't risk war with the US by sinking one of their naval vessels, both US intelligence and our own folk agreed that they may just decide to knock off an Australia boat or two to make a point. These submarines change that kind of conversation, and they change it quite dramatically.

So, I don't think we'll be declaring war on China anytime soon, but the balance of power in the region just took a serious shift.

EDIT: By the way, no one seriously believes that we're building these to carry conventional weapons. In 20 years time, when these are sailing about the place, they'll be nuclear armed. Take it to the bank.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
gerg
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12612
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gerg »

Not sure where to put it, but fantastic news. They found the missing WA girl. Cleo is a very lucky / unlucky girl - if that makes sense.

Shoving it in your face since 2017
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41990
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

gergreg wrote: November 3, 2021, 7:00 am Not sure where to put it, but fantastic news. They found the missing WA girl. Cleo is a very lucky / unlucky girl - if that makes sense.
I'd have let you name your price for a wager on that little girl being found alive.
I hope that nothing too horrific occurred to her during these days.
Lamenting Actions
Glenn Lazarus
Posts: 368
Joined: June 24, 2021, 2:20 pm
Favourite Player: Grace Kemp

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Lamenting Actions »

Schifty wrote: October 2, 2021, 1:54 pm Cool so this is the next leader of NSW?

Image

AH yes the poor right are being silenced by only having about having multiple TV networks and dozens of papers to express their views.
He is a member of Opus Dei. That says enough for me.

My career around politics appears to be drawing to a close as well. Can't come soon enough.
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4339
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Good ***** grief.

When the actual issue around this submarine fracas isn't about sovereign capability, but the engagement in laughably hamfisted and boorish diplomacy — who on earth advised that leaking private texts of that nature was a good move?
Up The Milk
User avatar
zim
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10639
Joined: July 8, 2015, 3:38 pm
Favourite Player: NRL: Joseph Tapine
NRLW: Grace Kemp
Location: Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by zim »

I haven't seen the texts. What kind of emojis did they use? Any skulls or clown faces?
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

zim wrote: November 3, 2021, 8:44 am I haven't seen the texts. What kind of emojis did they use? Any skulls or clown faces?
He somehow resurrected the old skype (mooning) emoticon.

It could be war.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

Botman wrote: November 3, 2021, 7:30 am
gergreg wrote: November 3, 2021, 7:00 am Not sure where to put it, but fantastic news. They found the missing WA girl. Cleo is a very lucky / unlucky girl - if that makes sense.
I'd have let you name your price for a wager on that little girl being found alive.
I hope that nothing too horrific occurred to her during these days.
It seems impossible. What a great result.
Surely now we find out there's a family connection. It all just seems to weird.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41990
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Yeah, it feels like there HAS to be more to this story
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

Botman wrote: November 3, 2021, 10:22 am Yeah, it feels like there HAS to be more to this story
Police are saying it's a '36 year old male with no connection to the family'. So, there you go.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145094
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Perspective from the French Ambassador to Australia:

The federal government has insisted Mr Macron was aware the deal was in jeopardy, despite Foreign Minister Marise Payne releasing a statement alongside her French counterpart on August 30 which "underlined the importance" of the agreement. Mr Thebault said the statement, which came just two weeks before the deal was scrapped, showed the federal government had deliberately misled Paris.

"Do you agree on such a joint communiqué when there is the slightest doubt on something so massive as the official backbone of our cooperation? Maybe on Mars. But not on this planet," Mr Thebault said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329

Also that the release of the text from one leader to the other has meant that "Trust is totally shattered" according to an advisor to Macron.

Doesn't look like they have the hang of this diplomacy thing.
Image
User avatar
FuiFui BradBrad
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8651
Joined: May 3, 2008, 10:23 pm
Favourite Player: Phil Graham
Location: Marsden Park

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Mickey_Raider wrote:Good ***** grief.

When the actual issue around this submarine fracas isn't about sovereign capability, but the engagement in laughably hamfisted and boorish diplomacy — who on earth advised that leaking private texts of that nature was a good move?
Probably the same person who thought it was a good idea to lie about Scomo being out of the country when it was on fire
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.

Nickman's love of NSW
  • NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
  • NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
User avatar
-TW-
Mal Meninga
Posts: 35369
Joined: July 2, 2007, 11:41 am

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by -TW- »

T_R wrote:
Botman wrote: November 3, 2021, 10:22 am Yeah, it feels like there HAS to be more to this story
Police are saying it's a '36 year old male with no connection to the family'. So, there you go.
It's a **** odd story

The media kept asking the cops about a rumour he'd bout nappies and supplies for looking after a kid



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

User avatar
gerg
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12612
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gerg »


-TW- wrote:
T_R wrote:
Botman wrote: November 3, 2021, 10:22 am Yeah, it feels like there HAS to be more to this story
Police are saying it's a '36 year old male with no connection to the family'. So, there you go.
It's a **** odd story

The media kept asking the cops about a rumour he'd bout nappies and supplies for looking after a kid



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Only catching up now. Somebody from the same small town. I've never been to WA but I haven't heard many good things about Carnavon, or that particular region in general. Big alcohol and drug problems.

But such an incredible story. So happy for the family. Hope they pack up the whole family and move far away.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
User avatar
FuiFui BradBrad
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8651
Joined: May 3, 2008, 10:23 pm
Favourite Player: Phil Graham
Location: Marsden Park

The Politics Thread 2021

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

gergreg wrote:
-TW- wrote:
T_R wrote:
Botman wrote: November 3, 2021, 10:22 am Yeah, it feels like there HAS to be more to this story
Police are saying it's a '36 year old male with no connection to the family'. So, there you go.
It's a **** odd story

The media kept asking the cops about a rumour he'd bout nappies and supplies for looking after a kid



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Only catching up now. Somebody from the same small town. I've never been to WA but I haven't heard many good things about Carnavon, or that particular region in general. Big alcohol and drug problems.

But such an incredible story. So happy for the family. Hope they pack up the whole family and move far away.
What amazes me, this is the 3rd missing kid story this year that has ended well
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.

Nickman's love of NSW
  • NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
  • NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
User avatar
papabear
Steve Walters
Posts: 7038
Joined: August 27, 2007, 2:26 pm
Location: leafy part of sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by papabear »

back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
User avatar
hrundi89
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1811
Joined: January 25, 2007, 10:33 pm
Favourite Player: Jarrod Croker
Location: Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hrundi89 »

papabear wrote: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
Deterrents have worked quite well since 1945.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

hrundi89 wrote: November 5, 2021, 11:00 am
papabear wrote: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
Deterrents have worked quite well since 1945.
Do you think? I think that since 1945 we've accepted an international law as defined by a dominant western paradigm. China has indicated very clearly that it does not intend for that to be the case going forward.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16584
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

A China which now does the bulk of manufacturing for the world.

What could go wrong?
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote:A China which now does the bulk of manufacturing for the world.

What could go wrong?
China v The Rest Of Us is going to be the story of the next half century, I would guess.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
FuiFui BradBrad
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8651
Joined: May 3, 2008, 10:23 pm
Favourite Player: Phil Graham
Location: Marsden Park

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

T_R wrote:
gangrenous wrote:A China which now does the bulk of manufacturing for the world.

What could go wrong?
China v The Rest Of Us is going to be the story of the next half century, I would guess.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
There’s always someone. Iraq and North Korea have had their times in the sun, now it’s China’s turn
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.

Nickman's love of NSW
  • NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
  • NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16584
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

China is a completely different kettle of fish to those two though.
User avatar
hrundi89
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1811
Joined: January 25, 2007, 10:33 pm
Favourite Player: Jarrod Croker
Location: Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hrundi89 »

T_R wrote: November 5, 2021, 8:49 pm
hrundi89 wrote: November 5, 2021, 11:00 am
papabear wrote: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
Deterrents have worked quite well since 1945.
Do you think? I think that since 1945 we've accepted an international law as defined by a dominant western paradigm. China has indicated very clearly that it does not intend for that to be the case going forward.
They've worked well at deterring a world war (so far...).

Not saying we need to maximise defence spending just for the sake of it, but no doubt the significant threat that nuclear presents has encouraged a base level of diplomacy.

As strident as the Chinese can be their elites know which side of the bread the butter is on, so it's not in their interest to rattle the cage too hard beyond their region.

I admit I'm not an expert on these matters.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
User avatar
T_R
Don Furner
Posts: 17276
Joined: August 4, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Noosa

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

hrundi89 wrote: November 8, 2021, 11:10 am
T_R wrote: November 5, 2021, 8:49 pm
hrundi89 wrote: November 5, 2021, 11:00 am
papabear wrote: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
Deterrents have worked quite well since 1945.
Do you think? I think that since 1945 we've accepted an international law as defined by a dominant western paradigm. China has indicated very clearly that it does not intend for that to be the case going forward.
They've worked well at deterring a world war (so far...).

Not saying we need to maximise defence spending just for the sake of it, but no doubt the significant threat that nuclear presents has encouraged a base level of diplomacy.

As strident as the Chinese can be their elites know which side of the bread the butter is on, so it's not in their interest to rattle the cage too hard beyond their region.

I admit I'm not an expert on these matters.
I'm far from an expert either, but when I talk about the dominant paradigm of international law as being based on that of 'western' countries following 1945, it's precisely what I believe HAS prevented (or contributed to the prevention of) larger scale conflicts in the last 80 years. My concern in regards China is that they have indicated that they aren't prepared to be bound by those laws going forward....and that takes us into completely unchartered territory.

I think we're going into a pretty scary time.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4339
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

T_R wrote: November 8, 2021, 11:24 am
hrundi89 wrote: November 8, 2021, 11:10 am
T_R wrote: November 5, 2021, 8:49 pm
hrundi89 wrote: November 5, 2021, 11:00 am
papabear wrote: November 5, 2021, 10:02 am back on to the subs discussion.

Am I the only one that thinks the build up of armaments by either china, australia (whomever) is a bad thing for humankind in 2021. Call me a hippy, but realistically, I would prefer to see australian governments minimising capital expediture on defence forces and putting the money elsewhere such as space exploration / rocket technology / renewables / pretty much anywhere else then designing machines to do win a dick measuring contest on who can potential kill the best.
Deterrents have worked quite well since 1945.
Do you think? I think that since 1945 we've accepted an international law as defined by a dominant western paradigm. China has indicated very clearly that it does not intend for that to be the case going forward.
They've worked well at deterring a world war (so far...).

Not saying we need to maximise defence spending just for the sake of it, but no doubt the significant threat that nuclear presents has encouraged a base level of diplomacy.

As strident as the Chinese can be their elites know which side of the bread the butter is on, so it's not in their interest to rattle the cage too hard beyond their region.

I admit I'm not an expert on these matters.
I'm far from an expert either, but when I talk about the dominant paradigm of international law as being based on that of 'western' countries following 1945, it's precisely what I believe HAS prevented (or contributed to the prevention of) larger scale conflicts in the last 80 years. My concern in regards China is that they have indicated that they aren't prepared to be bound by those laws going forward....and that takes us into completely unchartered territory.

I think we're going into a pretty scary time.
If you're Taiwan you're chilled to the bone marrow. What is happening around China with Hong Kong/Taiwan is in many ways analogous to Russia with Crimea and the Donbass.

You have Super/Great Powers' and their "spheres" or "zones" of influence upon which they will exert the full force of their might within that strategic home ground.
Up The Milk
User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16584
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

T_R wrote:and that takes us into completely unchartered territory.
Very good
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4339
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I could have sworn that 2 years ago EVs were going to end the weekend but apparently they are all good now?

People cannot be that gullible, surely?
Up The Milk
User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16584
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Mickey_Raider wrote:People cannot be that gullible, surely?
I think you know the answer to this Image

It’s pretty clear that technology, not taxes, have made the difference and now EVs have had all the weekend destruction cut out of them since last election. All thanks to the LNP.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145094
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: November 9, 2021, 5:37 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote:People cannot be that gullible, surely?
I think you know the answer to this Image

It’s pretty clear that technology, not taxes, have made the difference and now EVs have had all the weekend destruction cut out of them since last election. All thanks to the LNP.
When the government spends money... it is our taxes that pay for it.
Image
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4339
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: Canberra Raiders won't terminate contracts of unvaccinated players

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 11, 2021, 4:12 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 11, 2021, 3:09 pm
Akyle1994 wrote: November 11, 2021, 8:01 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 11, 2021, 7:57 am My vote for dealing with antivaxxers is to raise income tax by a couple of percentage points across the board to deal with hospitalisation and health services fees. I don't see any of these protesters ever acknowledging the burden they're putting on the rest of society - it would be great to make it black and white.
:clap: Second that
No thanks.

If you're proposing an "Unvaxxed Tax" as a means to shape or disincentive certain undesirable behaviours, whilst I don't agree with that policy proposal, that is one thing.

But if you need to increase funding for the hospital system to increase capacity, the government can do that without increasing taxes to "fund" the increase.
Where's the money coming from? Transparency about what is being defunded would also be great.
The money comes from government fiat.

Any so called “defunding” would almost certainly be ideological and not grounded in any macroeconomic imperative.
Up The Milk
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145094
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Mickey… if your thesis is correct, we should immediately abolish all taxes and revenue raising. Just “print money”. What do you think will then happen? Really a discussion for another thread though… so over to the Politics Thread with this one.
Image
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4339
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mickey_Raider »

greeneyed wrote: November 11, 2021, 10:14 pm Mickey… if your thesis is correct, we should immediately abolish all taxes and revenue raising. Just “print money”. What do you think will then happen? Really a discussion for another thread though… so over to the Politics Thread with this one.
We have definitely had this discussion before and certainly can have it again in another thread if you so desire; although I am
Not sure how productive it would be.

But as for your above proposition, that is a non-séquitor. My thesis is in no way presupposes the abolition of all taxes and revenues.
Up The Milk
Post Reply