The Politics Thread 2022

[Botman]

I’ve been renewing mine for ages despite the fact I haven’t sat on one for 7-8 years

I’ve never really felt comfortable as public servant, I’ve got a great job that I love and pays me more than I ever dreamt I’d earn back in my forking days, sort of feels like any moment the cops will roll up, and escort me out and the jig will be up, so at least I’ll have that sort of job to fall back on

[papabear]

As for the general tax take - I dont find this point persuasive as Howard bought in the GST specifically to get more money in so this was always going to happen.

Trying to get my head around your logic here.

So the data shows that Labor is in fact the lower taxing government....but this is not persuasive because the Howard government...introduced a tax?



Sounds like the sizzling sound of cognitive dissonance.

Spare me the use of cognitive dissonance.

I will try and flesh my position out a bit more so hopefully I can avoid copping a new word you hear yesterday that you thought made you sound intelligent.

The total tax take isn't the general argument against the labor party, the general argument is that they tend to spend way more then they bring in. Which the data supports. People dont generally think the liberal /coalition are low taxing federal government, they may think they are better then labor to a greater extent (if at all) then they are... but this is not the general argument used.

The total tax take, tends to increase (except recently with the economy in a funny place) as time goes on as inflation takes hold...

That all said, I do think you have a point in that if people are voting for the coalition because they consider them lower taxing then that point isn't accurate nor borne out in the data might be accurate, I am just not sure that is the case.

In any event, I can't speak for what other people vote for, only what I would. My economic thoughts I have made clear where I stand, and to be honest I am leaning into voting on environmental points heavier and heavier...

Out of interest, how and why do you vote a certain way?

Environmental points? I never took you for an Australian Greens voter, but good on you!

Lol I voted greens once coz the guy asked me to give him back the how to vote card…

I think a push for reforestation / taxing plastic / hard against coal seam gas / movement away from fossil fuels / someone bombing Chinese (and pretty much all ocean fishing trawlers / garbage recycling investment… all this stuff sways my vote.

Either way - both parties agendas are from mine, so I tend to make a more personality based call these days..

[papabear]

The total tax take isn't the general argument against the labor party, the general argument is that they tend to spend way more then they bring in. Which the data supports.

The total tax take, tends to increase (except recently with the economy in a funny place) as time goes on as inflation takes hold...

The data does not support this. The data shows that in terms of taxes relative to GDP — that is as a percentage of GDP — Labor is the lower taxing party. We are not talking about some situation whereby the gross taxation is higher only because the economy has boomed or inflated under the Coalition and as a corollary so too has the gross tax take.

People dont generally think the liberal /coalition are low taxing federal government, they may think they are better then labor to a greater extent (if at all) then they are... but this is not the general argument used.

That all said, I do think you have a point in that if people are voting for the coalition because they consider them lower taxing then that point isn't accurate nor borne out in the data might be accurate, I am just not sure that is the case.

In any event, I can't speak for what other people vote for, only what I would.

Can't agree with the above. The reason why the likes of Frydenberg and Morrison continue to sloganeer that they are the government of low taxes and fiscal responsibility ad nauseam is because they know it is fertile ground. Even though government is as bloated as it has ever been and taxes are higher and the debt larger than it has ever been; it appears to accord with the "vibe" and ethos of what a Liberal government stands for. So they continue to say it and it continues to be accepted by a large cross section of society.

That would certainly be interesting data to dive into if you have a link…

Happy to take your word for it for now..

You didn’t answer my question about how and why you vote a certain way. I could be wrong but it feels being told to vote by someone who votes the same way every election is not persuasive..

[Mickey_Raider]

That would certainly be interesting data to dive into if you have a link…

Happy to take your word for it for now..

https://budget.gov.au/2021-22/content/b ... f#page=370

There you go my good man.

The actual budget papers themselves. Page 362-363.

You didn’t answer my question about how and why you vote a certain way. I could be wrong but it feels being told to vote by someone who votes the same way every election is not persuasive..

I am not telling anyone to vote in any certain way and I am not altogether that concerned if one finds what I am saying "persuasive".

I have made a claim that the LNP are the higher taxing government, and used their own budget papers to prove it. If someone doesn't find the facts persuasive; well, that person has probably departed the realm of reason and entered the realm of dogma.

[gangrenous]

[Sterlk]

I was just browsing around the polling numbers from a Wikipedia link, and it seems even QLD has changed its stripes of late, which I wasn't expecting to see.

[1992]

At what point in your life do you come to the realisation that voting means nothing any more?

Have not voted in at least four years and never will again.

Biden got 81 million votes and is officially the most popular man in American history.

[papabear]

Thank you for the link.

I read through it with this as my guide next to me:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... _elections

I see your argument, although, the differences appear to be very small, also with labor only winning two federal elections in the last forever its not great data from a comparative stand point.

From a tax perspective, in my opinion, (and its not this simple, but for the sake of a footy message board) you can lump taxes into three broad categories:-
- Bad taxes (things that tax good things).
- Reasonable taxes ( things that tax bad things).
- Neutral taxes (things that tax profitable things that are neither good nor bad).

For example GST might be considered a neutral tax. Property taxes may be neutral etc etc.

Cigarettes and petrol would be a reasonable tax, they are pretty much the only one.
IMO - the govt whether labor or liberal (although, i see labor as having more balls in this space) should be pushing to tax sugar (or sugar replacements) added into food.
They should also be looking to tax plastic packaging. All packaging for all products should be moving towards stuff that breaks down in the environment.

Importantly, income tax rates, generally the less money you have the more you are reliant on working hard to get yourself set up (whereas wealthier people can rely on their assets to produce income) - we tax personal income way to highly. As a country we are far to reliant on it.

https://treasury.gov.au/review/tax-whit ... t-a-glance

The coalition is talking about reducing personal income tax rates and slowing (way to slowly doing it).

They also slowly reduced company taxes - this is terrible imo, people invest where they think they are going to make money not on tax rate (the people who put there money in low tax havens arent investing money there they are just parking it and running their office from there.. we should not be entering this race to the bottom. Labor may and should reverse these company tax reductions.

I have no faith in labor ever restructuring the personal income tax rates to a fairer place.

Whilst I see your point - its more about the how and who are paying taxes nowadays not so much just the gross dump and 22% or 21% of tax against revenue.

[Mickey_Raider]

I see your argument, although, the differences appear to be very small, also with labor only winning two federal elections in the last forever its not great data from a comparative stand point.

I am not sure I understand what you mean though in terms of not being great data; or the reference to to 2 elections.

The data makes clear that going back all the way to 1972, across the:

- Whitlam (ALP);
- Fraser (Coalition);
- Hawke (ALP);
- Keating (ALP);
- Howard (Coalition);
-Rudd/Gillard (ALP); and
-Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison (Coalition) administrations, the ALP is the lower taxing government.

The rest of your response is about overlaying your own value judgment on taxation. Some of which, I might add, I agree with.

[-PJ-]

Hey ScoMo bro.

Put 50 in the tank earlier, got myself 27 precious litres.

Just letting you know ScoMo bro.

[Coastalraider]

You must have got a good price Peej, I’ve paid 2.00.5 recently.

[Botman]

I was stunned the other day filling up
this is very first world problems... but i almost never drive anymore
work from home almost exclusively and dont travel around a lot

i filled up my Camry and it cost me nearly $100.. wild ****

[gergreg]

It was only a year ago it was under a dollar a litre wasn't it? Nobody driving anywhere so they dropped the price. Now things have opened up again they're gouging again.

[-PJ-]

You must have got a good price Peej, I’ve paid 2.00.5 recently.

Regular unleaded 91.

$1.79 per litre I think it was.

[Question]

It takes balls to pull a gun amnesty, it takes balls to pull off chugging beers at the cricket with a crowd, **** liberal **** labour, i just want a man or women with balls, **** all that liberal labour crap.

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[gergreg]

Barnaby is the gift that keeps on giving.

[gangrenous]

These jerks even recognise that they are jerks.

Yet still people are lapping up Bull and calling it milk.

[Mickey_Raider]

These jerks even recognise that they are jerks.

Yet still people are lapping up Bull and calling it milk.

No they’re not.

Amongst the bleeding to the right to UAP, PHON and the Lib Dems; the bleeding to the moderates in targeted inner city areas and a bleeding to Labor in a few key marginals across the board - the LNP will not be returned.

[gangrenous]

Think you’re over-egging my comment there.

There are most definitely a large number of people who still are. I can point you at a couple on this forum.

[Mickey_Raider]

Think you’re over-egging my comment there.

There are most definitely a large number of people who still are. I can point you at a couple on this forum.

Nah I get where you’re at. Even if it is just 40% of people - it is exasperating that such a large of people still buy it.

I’m just trying to reassure you that the grift will be over very soon and they shall not be returned.

[gangrenous]

It’s like the US being happy they didn’t return Trump. That should have been baby steps. You still have millions upon millions who saw what he was up close and wanted more. Who believe totally impossible conspiracy theories around him. That’s still an enormous problem to have. Particularly as there seems to be a large number of swing voters (who have their pivot point in a ridiculous spot, or are just contrarians) who will look at Biden’s inadequacies and probably put Trump or someone similar back in a couple of years.

I have the same concerns for here. I don’t see anyone rational on this forum trying to argue this government isn’t incompetent. That should see them absolutely obliterated at the election. The behaviour they have exhibited has to be met with “this was not acceptable, we won’t tolerate this” otherwise we continue on our way to acceptance of this.

But I’m not confident they will get obliterated and I remain concerned that all we get is one term that’s not them, with the new government hamstrung by an aggressive media. That it’s a temporary halt to this Bull, or worse a continuation if like the US Democrats the new government feels the need to do the same sorts of things or not change radically to hold power.

I was incredibly disappointed by the country’s choice at the last election. If it chose more of this…

[Question]

I swing vote, and labour had me up until today when I heard a man (Albo) that sounded like a teenage girl banging on about the absolute least of my concerns in the current enviroment, Back to you Scotty.

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[gergreg]

I swing vote, and labour had me up until today when I heard a man (Albo) that sounded like a teenage girl banging on about the absolute least of my concerns in the current enviroment, Back to you Scotty.

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If you're referring to the government failing to pass the religious/gender anti-discrimination bill then you clearly have absolutely no idea about politics whatsoever.

[Question]

Righto sage

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[gergreg]

Yeah it's totally Albo's fault that 5 liberal politicians voted against it.

[greeneyed]

A religious discrimination bill wasn’t needed. It was the government that introduced it. All about wedge politics and distractions from the government’s performance. The opposition has been trying to ensure that other minority groups aren’t discriminated against, with the passage of new legislation. Looks like enough members of the government agreed. How is any of that the fault of the opposition?

[Question]

I think there is more pressing matters to be grabbing sounbytes about and blairing thru the radio in every factory around Sydney.

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[Question]

Both these knobs need to play whats in front of them.

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[greeneyed]

You’re saying Albanese shouldn’t comment about a piece of legislation, brought on by the government… completely unnecessary, especially right now… there are other more important things. And it is Albanese’s fault for commenting about the issue? And Albanese’s in the wrong for trying to ensure minorities aren’t adversely affected and discriminated against in the context of the government trying to change the law? Right…

[Question]

No, I aint got time for that, at the moment any way ,we can re explore all that when the big issues are taken by the balls, , I think he wasted a good opportunity to bring me some thing that shows some strength at 12.02 pm on the 10th of Feb 2022.

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[greeneyed]

So blame the government. The government is responsible for bringing the issue on.

[gergreg]

No, Q you have no **** idea what you're gibbering about.

[Question]

I dont give a **** whos to blame, he wasted opportunity to say something abot more pressing matters.

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[Question]

Instead hes banging on about that.

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[greeneyed]

Next.