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Northern Raider
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Hurts needs to be a genuine threat in the passing game before you can legitimately compare him to Lamar.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: November 24, 2021, 9:59 am Hurts needs to be a genuine threat in the passing game before you can legitimately compare him to Lamar.
Definitely
The thing that makes Lamar work is that he isn't just a running QB.

He's not a particularly good at anticipation throws, it's not like he's throwing into windows before guys comes out of breaks or anything, but when he sees an open throw he can make accurate throws consistently into the 2nd and 3rd level... i'm talking deep 15-25 yard throws up the seam, on the side line... he can make all the NFL throws required and do it consistently well.
Hurts has the arm talent to make those throws but he is so wildly inconsistent right now with his accuracy, particularly if he's in a traditional drop back pass set, that yes, there is no legitimate comparison at this stage as complete players
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: November 24, 2021, 11:54 am
Northern Raider wrote: November 24, 2021, 9:59 am Hurts needs to be a genuine threat in the passing game before you can legitimately compare him to Lamar.
Definitely
The thing that makes Lamar work is that he isn't just a running QB.

He's not a particularly good at anticipation throws, it's not like he's throwing into windows before guys comes out of breaks or anything, but when he sees an open throw he can make accurate throws consistently into the 2nd and 3rd level... i'm talking deep 15-25 yard throws up the seam, on the side line... he can make all the NFL throws required and do it consistently well.
Hurts has the arm talent to make those throws but he is so wildly inconsistent right now with his accuracy, particularly if he's in a traditional drop back pass set, that yes, there is no legitimate comparison at this stage as complete players
Biggest issue is he doesn't have the instincts. Thats not something you can coach. Either it comes naturally or you build it through experience. NFL is not the best forum for a QB to rely on the latter method. Takes too long.
Last edited by Northern Raider on November 24, 2021, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 4:55 am Giants fire Garrett.
Those **** couldn’t wait one more **** week :rant

Though Freddie Kitchens is taking over play calling, so maybe it’s ok :lol:
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote:
Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 4:55 am Giants fire Garrett.
Those **** couldn’t wait one more **** week :rant

Though Freddie Kitchens is taking over play calling, so maybe it’s ok Image
I remember taking the absolute piss out of Matt over Garrett, then when the Cowboys finally bounced him I jokingly said the Giants would probably sign him as HC. I was close. But even so this looks like the GM making moves to save his own **** when the spotlight turns in his direction. The club has been an absolute cluster for a few years now.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:42 am
Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:00 am 1st 15 starts:
Lamar
4120 total yds
26 TDs
12 turnovers
213 1st downs

Hurts
4115 total yds
29 TDs
11 turnovers
209 1st downs

@Botman, you may actually have a piece at QB
Yeah the eagles i think are one of the most interesting teams to look at right now, there is real pieces in the side and then there is the Hurts question
If you built the offence around him and committed all in to the running QB style of play, then sure.

When looking at him compared to Lamar, i think they're comparable in the deep passing game, with a slight edge to Hurts.
I think Lamar is much better short and intermediate passing (though he wasn't very good in this area in the first 1-2 seasons either)
As runners, Lamar is faster and more agile. He's more dynamic in open space. Hurts isn't as dynamic but he makes up for that with his size. In that respect he's sort of the middle ground between a Lamar runner and a Cam Newton/Josh Allen style runner. I actually think Hurts is sort of the perfect balance as a running QB... in so far as he's very fast and dynamic enough to make defenders miss a lot... but he's big enough to withstand the hits when the defenders get home

Problem is philosophically and to their core, it's been said/reported that Howie Roseman and Jeff Lurie don't believe that's what wins in the league. They believe in pocket passers who have additional movement traits to make the first rusher miss and create the explosives in 2nd reaction plays. That's why they've been so eager to get involved in Watson. This is a traditional QB who can play an entire game sitting in the pocket, and on the plays where it breaks down, he can make defenders miss, tuck, run and get a first down.

Unless that philosophy has changed (and maybe it has or is on it's way to changing?), or he dramatically improves as a drop back passer, i find it hard to believe they'll ever fully commit to Hurts and do what is necessary to build around his very unique style long term

However, it is starting to seem like unless they can get Watson, which is extremely unlikely... then they're going to use these 3 first rounders to build up the talent in the team, probably taking the best players on their board on defence and kicking the QB can another year down the road and rolling with Hurts in 2022 and see if they can progress him as a passer. Right now the eagles have #8, #11 and #16 and the good news is this is a stacked draft defensively.
I agree. Hurts will need to develop a-la Lamar in the passing game. He will need club support. If Eagles can flip their D in 1 yr, like Dallas seems to have done. Then Eagles move straight into contention again next yr.

Which are Colts and Phins? And have you started the voodoo dolls?
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: November 24, 2021, 12:53 pm
Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 4:55 am Giants fire Garrett.
Those **** couldn’t wait one more **** week :rant

Though Freddie Kitchens is taking over play calling, so maybe it’s ok :lol:
No more :clap:
But...
:thumbsup
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:24 pm
Which are Colts and Phins? And have you started the voodoo dolls?
I've been death riding them all year long haha

The Dolphins currently own 8, the eagles 11 and colts 16

Ideally, the Dolphins fall apart and get back into the tank for a top 5 pick, the Colts start getting blasted and we get something near 10, and the eagles blow a couple of games and finish just out the play offs and it's middle of the road, 15-18

But i really dont think that's happening. I think all those teams are trending up and these picks will likely all be 13 and above.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:33 pm
Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:24 pm
Which are Colts and Phins? And have you started the voodoo dolls?
I've been death riding them all year long haha

The Dolphins currently own 8, the eagles 11 and colts 16

Ideally, the Dolphins fall apart and get back into the tank for a top 5 pick, the Colts start getting blasted and we get something near 10, and the eagles blow a couple of games and finish just out the play offs and it's middle of the road, 15-18

But i really dont think that's happening. I think all those teams are trending up and these picks will likely all be 13 and above.
I think you'll probably end up with 9 or 10, and 2 mid teens. But I really hope you end up with 3 sequential or split by 1, eg 13, 15, 17, coz that would funny
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

The Giants were awful on Monday night. The Bucs barely broke a sweat, they were in cruise control all night. Garrett’s gone - it was a bad hire from the start, should’ve been let go in the offseason, Monday’s game finally broke the camel’s back. They’re currently looking at a couple of high draft picks, but I’m sure the Giants will win some meaningless games down the stretch that’ll push back their own draft pick. They’ll probably get 1/2 wins vs the Eagles, and then I can see them beating the Dolphins, Bears and Football team, leaving them with a 7-10 record and picking just outside the top 10. The Bears pick should be high though, as they appear to be in free fall.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:33 pm
Matt wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:24 pm
Which are Colts and Phins? And have you started the voodoo dolls?
I've been death riding them all year long haha

The Dolphins currently own 8, the eagles 11 and colts 16

Ideally, the Dolphins fall apart and get back into the tank for a top 5 pick, the Colts start getting blasted and we get something near 10, and the eagles blow a couple of games and finish just out the play offs and it's middle of the road, 15-18

But i really dont think that's happening. I think all those teams are trending up and these picks will likely all be 13 and above.
Phins have a relatively soft draw in the run home. All games are winnable if they continue their current form. I had Titans down as a definite loss until they **** the bed against Texans. More realistically looking like 9-8 or 8-9 season though.

Colts are impossible to get a line on. Look to be over achieving so far. I have them finishing 9-8 but only need one upset to be a 10-7 team. They already had a few of those this season
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Botman »

yeah the phins and eagles both have pretty nice runs home, so even if i dont think either team is THAT good, they'll keep winning games at a pretty solid clip
The colts are a wildcard.
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Re: NFL Thread

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NFL as unpredictable as I've ever seen this year. Every time a team puts their hand up as a top contender they get toweled up by an average team with virtually no playoff aspirations.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Northern Raider wrote: November 25, 2021, 11:10 am NFL as unpredictable as I've ever seen this year. Every time a team puts their hand up as a top contender they get toweled up by an average team with virtually no playoff aspirations.
Yup.
The "any given Sunday", really applies this yr.
Injuries, suspension/sacking and COVID are still playing their parts though.
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Re: NFL Thread

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As expected Lions vs Bears was a Banger.....
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: November 26, 2021, 7:18 am As expected Lions vs Bears was a Banger.....
Joe Buck's call on the game winning field goal summed it up

"Good Snap. Good Hold. Good Kick. Goodbye" :lol:
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Re: NFL Thread

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The time management from the Lions at the end was horrible. Didn't take a timeout 20sec before the 2min warning, then wasted 2 timeouts in a row straight after it; causing a penalty for consecutive timeouts! Which made it 3rd and 4 and then the CBs played 10 yards off the receivers! Not surprising they haven't won a game
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Re: NFL Thread

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PrimetimeRaider wrote: November 26, 2021, 8:18 am The time management from the Lions at the end was horrible. Didn't take a timeout 20sec before the 2min warning, then wasted 2 timeouts in a row straight after it; causing a penalty for consecutive timeouts! Which made it 3rd and 4 and then the CBs played 10 yards off the receivers! Not surprising they haven't won a game
An abysmal display

And now im watching Derek Carr miss open targets in the end zone and costing them 4 points
Game should 21-6 to the rrrrraaaaiders

As Kevin Clark said
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: November 26, 2021, 7:57 am
Matt wrote: November 26, 2021, 7:18 am As expected Lions vs Bears was a Banger.....
Joe Buck's call on the game winning field goal summed it up

"Good Snap. Good Hold. Good Kick. Goodbye" :lol:
Yup. Loved it.

PS. Red Rocket was an passable NFL QB today
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

POLLARD!!!
100yd kick return
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Re: NFL Thread

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Raiders tried their hardest to blow that game but they pulled it out in the end
Brown was victimised by Zay Jones and DJax... the 4 DPI's, all fair and legitimate were the difference

The officiating in general of that game was piss poor however. So much ticky tack Bull going each way
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Re: NFL Thread

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Penalties killed the Cowboys today.
5 flags on 3rd down defensively.
3 big plays brought back for penalty on offense, Pollard 30yd run, Schultz TD, and forget the 3rd ATM, was early.

Brown PI 4 times, incl the game losing play - Ironically, if he gets his head around, he might pick it off. And no reason he shouldn't have, as he had a saftey over the top. So dumb!

Greg the legs missed extra pt cost us today. We had to chase the 2pts a couple of times to try and make up for it.

Would love everyone's thoughts on that non-fumble in the 1st quarter.

Both QBs 370 odd without their best WRs.

Dak was clutch in the 4th. Then misses a wide open Noah Brown on 3rd and 3 in OT.

Parsons is a beast! Big time player. Has to be DROTY. Wonder where he sits overall?

Pollard was good today. Stats aren't as good as they should be either, due to penalties. That kick return was special.

Kearse had a Barry Crocker today. Was awful. Bad angles and bad tackling. Also missed an INT.

Hooker missed an INT late, that would have been better than the following punt.

Raiders deserved to win. They held the course of the game for most of it. Cowboys were their own worst enemy, esp on 3rd down.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 26, 2021, 11:34 am Raiders tried their hardest to blow that game but they pulled it out in the end
Brown was victimised by Zay Jones and DJax... the 4 DPI's, all fair and legitimate were the difference

The officiating in general of that game was piss poor however. So much ticky tack Bull going each way
The Zebras were bad today. It's football, not netball.
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Re: NFL Thread

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re: the overturned fumble

Its tough... I think that's one of those plays where your view on it would depend on what side of that game you were on. I thought it was the right call, i don't think he ever really had possession. But i wouldnt have had a problem if that call stood as a fumble, i've certainly seen cases like that this year held up as fumbles.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

I thought it was a fumble, if not by the letter of the law, than at least by the eye test - i.e. that should be a fumble IMO
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Re: NFL Thread

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Cool. At least I'm not totally 1 eyed on that call
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Re: NFL Thread

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the bone wrote: November 26, 2021, 12:03 pm I thought it was a fumble, if not by the letter of the law, than at least by the eye test - i.e. that should be a fumble IMO
Yeah i think that's the right distinction... by the law, its 50/50 if he ever possessed the ball based on the requirements to possess a ball in the rule book, but a pub test would have that clearly as a catch and fumble
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 26, 2021, 12:51 pm
the bone wrote: November 26, 2021, 12:03 pm I thought it was a fumble, if not by the letter of the law, than at least by the eye test - i.e. that should be a fumble IMO
Yeah i think that's the right distinction... by the law, its 50/50 if he ever possessed the ball based on the requirements to possess a ball in the rule book, but a pub test would have that clearly as a catch and fumble
Commentary and the expert said fumble, but by rule incomplete, as the "football move" was completed as the ball came out. Therefore never possessed, by rule.

Thus the very definition of a 50/50
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Re: NFL Thread

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That route by Diggs on the touchdown was absurdly good haha
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Re: NFL Thread

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Gotta say fellas... my wife out with her sister who is visiting from London... im just here, a couple of drinks down, watching some cut ups of Eagles film

Jordan Mailata... this is not just he's an aussie and he's pretty good and that's awesome... this guy is legitimately one of the best LT's in the NFL. It's actually remarkable how good he is this quickly
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 26, 2021, 8:33 pm Gotta say fellas... my wife out with her sister who is visiting from London... im just here, a couple of drinks down, watching some cut ups of Eagles film

Jordan Mailata... this is not just he's an aussie and he's pretty good and that's awesome... this guy is legitimately one of the best LT's in the NFL. It's actually remarkable how good he is this quickly
Agreed.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Absolute stink bomb by the eagles and the offence
4 turn overs
2 of them in the red zone and 1 on a potential game winning drive

Just when you started to believe in hurts and this offence they once again show how unreliable it is :(
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 29, 2021, 6:49 am Absolute stink bomb by the eagles and the offence
4 turn overs
2 of them in the red zone and 1 on a potential game winning drive

Just when you started to believe in hurts and this offence they once again show how unreliable it is :(
Yeah, it was a stinky game all round
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Re: NFL Thread

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the bone wrote: November 29, 2021, 7:43 am
Botman wrote: November 29, 2021, 6:49 am Absolute stink bomb by the eagles and the offence
4 turn overs
2 of them in the red zone and 1 on a potential game winning drive

Just when you started to believe in hurts and this offence they once again show how unreliable it is :(
Yeah, it was a stinky game all round
Twas veeeeeery ugly
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: November 29, 2021, 6:49 am Absolute stink bomb by the eagles and the offence
4 turn overs
2 of them in the red zone and 1 on a potential game winning drive

Just when you started to believe in hurts and this offence they once again show how unreliable it is :(
Epitomises the yoyo season for the entire NFL.
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