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the bone
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

You’re getting a lot out of those articles that I’m not. Think about it, he’s angling for a late night TV show, and yet they just fundamentally rooted Stephen A. in first take which airs at 10am EST Mon-Fri.

Max has only been off FT for a few weeks, and already FT ratings have sunk below other programs like Around the Horn, Parden the interruption, and First Take’s lead-in show, Get Up. He may have some pull now, but ratings are all that matter to TV execs, so if they continue to stay down for FT they’ll rue the decision to get rid of Max.

And RE: Max’s hot takes, he’s had some good ones. He’s the one that predicted Brady would fall off a cliff 5 years ago :lol: and his arguments with Orlofski last year about how **** Carson Wentz was made for great TV. Maybe FT wants to be more of a drama like Undisputed, but their competitive advantage was that it wasn’t that - it was good sporting debate, with still a smidgeon of theatre. All in all, ESPN have ballsed up this decision, and my prediction is that the ratings and future ESPN decisions will show as much.
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Re: NFL Thread

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I dont disagree ESPN will live to regret giving him this much say, but the fact he has this much say is not in dispute.
He's spoken openly about wanting a late night show and trying to get to that. Openly. It's literally a fact he's spoken about so forcefully that it's almost exhausting.
Again, sports media in the USA is quite a fun beast that i follow closely

The ratings for FT are down for now, only becasue there is no ying to yang. SAS will get his guy and it will bounce back, it always does because SAS is an oddly compelling personality, his theatre is quite something. But what you're missing is that as an outsider, you think they want an honest, earnest sporting debate with a " smidgeon of theatre"

That's never been the show. The heart of the show is theatre with a smidgeon of sport. The drama is the selling point. Theatre is what the show fundimentally wants to be, for better or worse. Always has been. It might appeal to you more now when it lacked a bit of it, but the heart of show is dumb hot takes, giffable reactions and two guys yelling at each other like they're in a bar half cut.

There isnt room in this format for nuanced takes. For better or worse, the network clearly doesnt view it's lack of drama as a "competitive advantage" as you do, they've made that clear by giving SAS what he wants by firing Max out of a cannon. They saw it as a failure of the shows purpose and so Max hits the bricks and will be replaced by someone who's willing to take it to 11/10 the way Max simply cant.

along with those articles, Hang Up and Listen did a podcast that spoke to SAS's rise in ESPN (Turmoil At ESPN) and the Ringers Press Box (Listener Mail on Rachel Nicholas, Stephen A Smith and the Future of Sports Coverage) are instructive listening

I want to be clear here, Boney. This is a very a strange interest area of mine and a story i've followed absurdly closely. You are speaking as a single fan of the show and your perspective. Most of which i agree with. But i am talking about well reported and understood dynamics of what is actually happening and how the network views SAS.
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the bone
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Re: NFL Thread

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We can can go back and forth on this all day, here is the crux of what we’re arguing about.

We agree that Stephen A is the bright star of ESPN.

Where we disagree is that I don’t think he was the star of FT, as you and ESPN do. (Now, in my initial post I think I said Max was the star, and that’s not true either. That was a hyperbolic initial reaction. In reality, what made the show was the dynamic between the two).

I’m also skeptical that Stephen A is now the Oracle of ESPN programming. Outside of his own shows, I can’t see ESPN producers giving up that power.

Finally, I’m again skeptical about the late night show for Stephen A. It doesn’t make sense to me. He’d be going head to head with live sports, and it doesn’t mesh with his FT duties.

RE: the format of FT, ESPN are misreading the situation. If they want it to be a hot take bonanza, they are going to lose that head to head battle with Undisputed. No one does it better than Skip, and Shannon is the perfect foil. Max gave FT their differentiation selling point - hot takes, with more thoughtful discussion (and also topics other than the Undisputed repeats of Brady/LeBron/Cowboys).

You sound very interested in the topic. But don’t misunderstand that you’re the only one. I live over here, and since working from home, ESPN or FS1 is on in the background all day, meetings permitted. Now I didn’t pick up the fact that Max had left because Undisputed starts half an hour before FT so I usually have that on instead. And the Athletic, which does extensive sports media reporting, hasn’t had any articles about Stephen A. and his late night dream. That doesn’t mean it’s not true, but I haven’t seen the evidence that makes it fact.

Media reporting does not make something fact. Evidence does. In the first half of 2020, how many articles did we read debunking these “crazy lab-leak theories” about coronavirus? (Facebook even censored such articles!). It’s now generally believed by people across the political spectrum that that theory cannot be discounted because there’s a reasonable chance it’s true. So when you point to an article talking about Stephen As late night ambitions, without any evidence in the article, I use my own judgement to make an assessment of that. To me, how does that mesh with his current duties, why would he want to do that etc. If he’s talking on podcasts about it than I’m sure it is in his plans, but that doesn’t mean ESPN is on board with it.

Anyway, the future will give us the insight we seek now.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Thought this ole Miss Bama game was shaping up to be a contest, and it’s just not
Bama absolutely belting them
Feels like this college football season will be a precession to another national title for Bama
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Re: NFL Thread

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Afternoon games are in the bag!

Jets and Giants upset Titans and Saints respectively, both in OT.

Eagles defence has no answer for Tyreek Hill in a loss to the Chiefs.

Browns grind it out against the Vikings.

Colts get their first win against the Dolphins.

Washington Riverboats beat the Falcons in a high scoring affair.

Bears beat the Lions on the back of RB Montgomery.

Bills pump the Texans, as Mills throws 4 picks.

Cowboys defeat the Panthers at JerryWorld.
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Re: NFL Thread

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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS!!!

How good is Diggs?!? Another 2 picks.
Zeke running angry.
5 Sacks
My boi Schultz ballin.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Today low key went perfect for the eagles

It’s clear to me that hurts is not going to be a franchise pocket qb
He’s got a shot if you built the whole thing around him and featured his legs like they do in Baltimore with Lamar
But he’s just not a good enough passer

So yeah, getting our doors blown off, having the Titans lose, Wentz and the Colts win, beating the dolphins who’s pick we own, colts still well and truly in that division race, as long as they are, they won’t sit Wentz to keep their pick

Hopefully at the end of this year the eagles will have 3 first round picks
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Re: NFL Thread

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Evening games all done -

Cardinals far too good for the Rams.

Packers did it easy enough against the Steelers.

Seahawks outlast Niners.

Ravens put away the Broncos.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: October 4, 2021, 8:08 am Today low key went perfect for the eagles

It’s clear to me that hurts is not going to be a franchise pocket qb
He’s got a shot if you built the whole thing around him and featured his legs like they do in Baltimore with Lamar
But he’s just not a good enough passer

So yeah, getting our doors blown off, having the Titans lose, Wentz and the Colts win, beating the dolphins who’s pick we own, colts still well and truly in that division race, as long as they are, they won’t sit Wentz to keep their pick

Hopefully at the end of this year the eagles will have 3 first round picks
Thats serious capitol
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Re: NFL Thread

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- Chiefs got back on track, their offence was humming, Mahomes still a little sloppy but they ripped off long drives and big plays at will. CEH and Darrell Williams got the running game going a bit. The defence is still very stinky.
- Well there is good and bad with the eagles... the good, Davonta Smith really is THAT dude. He's open constantly. His routes send dudes to other zip codes, its delightful. Hurts just cant make throws consistently enough from the pocket, particularly intermediate throws which are so important in the red zone, as a result the eagles suck... Nick Sirianni is having some rookie coach struggles too. There is a feeling that this Hurts-Sirianni deal could be a "salary cap hell" bridge situation and once that's sorted, they'll move on to the next meaningful era of eagles football... defensively they cant stop anyone. I dont want to tell Gannon how to do his job, but covering Tyreek Hill with LB's at any time is... well it's just not what you want to see. The memories of that optimisitc performance against Atlanta are long in the rearview mirror.

Monday wrap up

- Jets finally get a win and Wilson flashed some of the throws he's capable of making that got him selcted #2 over all. I really think Crowder is really important for them, he's such a good and underrated reliable possession reciever.
- They're back, the Titoooons are back. This team is so boring and mediocre. Already out of them. Henry is still fun though, i cant believe the workload he's getting without getting hurt. Specimen.

- Alright, the cowboys might be a touch more legit than i thought. I dont think their defence is quite as good as it's being made out to be but they're at least competent on that side of the ball. Curious to see how it all ends in disaster for them in the play offs but with their schedule, this should probably be a 12 win team
- Carolina have clearly improved but today showed they're still not quite ready to hang and play with truly elite offences in the NFL. Sam Darnold comeback SZN still looking solid.

- the GMEN stole that game, or rather it was given to them. But it's good to see Saquon looking back near his peak. Such a fun player to watch. Danny Dimes actually looks respectable too... fascinating decision looms if his play continues at this "Ok but not great" level.
- Sean Payten had a 'mare today, really mismanaged the game and cost them a win. It's so clear in his play calling that he doesnt trust his QBs. They're poised to make a move, but how and for who is interesting. Sneaky Rodgers destination imo.

- Browns keep eeking out these wins and they're not pretty but they keep stacking them, another curious Qb decision, Mayfield really isnt very good, they'd be so much better with a better Qb, but he's sort of established himself as their guy for better or worse.
- Really disappointing game from the Vikings. Offence laid an egg big time. The Zimmer reign might be coming to an end this year.

- The Fightin' Dan Campbell's again played hard but simply lack the talent to really win games. Got into the red zone 3 times and somehow came away with 0 points on those drives. Brutal.
- Justin Fields looked MUCH better today. Nagy at least dialed up some offensive calls that suit Fields skillset and he showed his talent. Darnell Mooney was the beneficiary of them today and i think i mentioned that combination after he was drafted as a potential amazing combo.

- Texans blanked, and really didnt have ANY signs of life on offence, Davis Mills is certainly not going to be the answer there long or short term, but they're another week away before Tyrod is back. They're in a holding pattern until this Watson situation resolves itself.
- The Bills are comfortably my AFC favourite at this point. Their defence is playing lights out, one of the best defensive teams statastically in history through 4 games, and Josh Allen has put aside his shakey first 2 weeks and is now back to his 2020 best.

- Colts win! They are still in the division race and Carson played all the snaps again! 4/13 games down for Philly to get their first round pick. I need them to stay in this race long enough not to sit Wentz. And this is the formula, JT rumbling, solid defence and Wentz making controlled plays
- And they beat the Dolphins! Whose pick we also own. Perfect! Man the Dolphins have problems, there is just something fundamentally broken about their offence. The OL still needs work but the skill players are good... is it QB, play caller/system? Dunno, but it's a tough watch.

- Talk about being gifted a game, i have no idea how Atlanta gave this game up. Finally they seemed to at least understand that Kyle Pitts might be someone worth featuring, so that's progress, but this is another team that lacks talented up and down the roster on both sides of the ball
- Heinicke really is establishing himself as the next Ryan Fitzmagic... he's not quite good enough to be a proper franchise QB but he's fearless and his arm talent is enough to do some pretty silly stuff, and it IS silly... very Fitzmagic. Washington D is totally overrated based on performances so far

- Seattle won a very ugly game on the back of about 2-3 legitimately good drives. They dont look like a real contender for me. Just too much weird **** going on.
- OK, so here we got Shanny... Jimmy G is out, now you can get into your bag and scheme up all this stuff for Trey Lance. But lets see it. I've got a mate who's very convinced Shanahan is a fruad and frankly based on results, that sort of holds up. Im not quite there yet, but i do want to see some offensive genius **** with Lance in there now.

- Cardinals really made the statement of the day imo. What a performance. Kliff and Kyler just flat out took it McVey and Stafford and stuffed them in a locker. Really cool to see Kyler take this next step as an on field processer too, he's not just beating teams with some arm talent and athleticism. But he's moving safeties and understanding the coverage/concepts
- Big THUD game for the Rams, nothing but smoke blown up their **** for weeks and they didnt have it at all today. Stafford had an off game but McVey was very off balance too. Interested to see how they respond. The defensive regression is very real though.

- Big Ben Washed Watch: So washed. So, so **** washed. I feel like i've seen him throw 3-4 yards short of the sticks at least 5 times this year on 4th down. He's unplayable right now. They can't keep trotting him out.
- Rodgers and the packers handled a very tough defensive unit and sort of cruised through it. Really good to see Randall Cobb get involved, they need him if they want to compete for a SB, that shift slot guy is something their offence is missing and helps Adams and Jones.

- Ravens bounced back and dominated a good team. Lamar looked great, Hollywood Brown opening up deep... REALLY keen to see Bateman get on the feild here, he's exactly what they need. The RB committee sucks though, no idea why they're moving away from Ty'Son Williams who's far and away their most dynamic option.
- Denver are who we thought they are. Exactly what i've thought about them all year, a team who will beat the teams they should and lose to the ones they should. Really love what Javonte Williams and Patrick Surtain are showing.

- This was by far Mac Jones' best game. He was really sharp and accurate, they had some nice plays installed that helped, but probably what mostly helped was the Bucs losing virtually everyone in their secondary. Still, this season might not be what we thought it might be, but Mac Jones is showing enough to be optimistic
- Dont think the Bucs played that well today, they had some miscues offensively, defensively they lost more players and that's starting to get to a point where it cant be papered over and eventually it'll be their undoing in the post season. Brady extends his legacy lead over belichick though with this win
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: October 4, 2021, 6:54 pm ...
- Well there is good and bad with the eagles... the good, Davonta Smith really is THAT dude. He's open constantly. His routes send dudes to other zip codes, its delightful...
EXCEPT...
When Diggs plays him.... which is twice a yr :D
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Re: NFL Thread

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I couldnt be less concerned about that match up long term.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Image
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by zim »

That cowboys Panthers game was a great watch.
Moore and Diggs put on a show.
Although I'm sure I heard the commentator say "he's got aids " at one point. Is this an inside reference a newbie wouldn't understand?
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Re: NFL Thread

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@Botman, great summary again.

Chiefs don't look the complete package this yr. They still have an offence that an torch anyone on their day, but something is 'off'.
Eagles - refer to Digg above.

Im happy to see Wilson succeed, even just a little. But ultimately, that Jets team stinks. They are still "tanking" to rebuild.
Titoons... it's Henry vs the world, and the giant of a man is making a decent first if it.

Im liking Danny Dimes more and more... which I hate given he is a GMan. I hope Barkley can finally be the RB he should... except 2 times a yr. I think this is a bottom quarter team, who'll probably pick to 10.
I dont know what that Saints side is; Jekyll, Hyde, Martha or Arthur? We have seen them all in 4wks. Their QB is off the scrap heap. Their backup is a gaget man, and more scat back/ catching TE than QB. Who are their WRs? Kamara is all over the shop too. Team in cohesion turmoil IMO.

I think the Browns are good, but after a hot start, they've gone clunky. Is Landry that important to making them run?
Vikings... ummm... **** was that?!? I'm putting it down as a Barry Crocker, so we'll move on.

I really thought the Lions might get a "Dub" today... but not to be. Bears were semi competent. Fields last wk vs this was a big improvement. Ultimately, 2 bad teams though. Both will be picking top half.

Texans SUUUUUUCK! Bills are VERY GOOD. Enough said.

I thought Colts and Phins would be half decent this yr, esp Phins. IMO both are trying to reach that mark ATM. Clunky is about as good as I can say about both.

Falcons and blowing a lead... where have I seen this movie before?!? I'm loving the reinvention of Cordell Patterson just quietly. Finally a team that's worked out how to use this playmaker. Pitts grows with every game. Ryan shows signs of life. Heineken is competent. He is the perfect backup QB, does just enough of everything to get you through a patch without QB1. I think everyone is wondering where this D went.

Seahawks and 9ers are in that 2nd teir. Pushing for wildcards potentially, but not really challenging. I'm a little surprised Seattle's offense isn't as explosive as it's been in the past, coz it has the parts. 9ers need Lance-a-lot.

I thought Cards were good, but wasn't sure they were legit, but today they proved me wrong. Knew the offense was good, but keeping Stafford in check was impressive. Like Vikings, Rams had a Barry.

The final bell needs to toll on Big Ben. That bomb to Alexander is the exception not the rule. ARod keeps on rolling. He and Adams are just magnificent.

I like Ravens. They are fun to watch. Brown getting that deep that easily is just criminal though. But that catch.... WOOOOW! A running team with a whole new RB room in wk 1, and now with barely a DB to rub together. Surely injury hurts them at some point.
Bronx are a middle of the road team, but losing Teddy hurts. The worst 3-0 team in history.

Brady vs Jones felt like young Brady vs GOAT Brady. Like the Chiefs, the Buccs aren't quite the same. Something is missing. Today Pats played with "Div game" intensity for the Brady vs Belly bowl. Still not convinced Pats are better than middle of the road. This was a good game to watch, esp the 2nd half.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

zim wrote: October 4, 2021, 8:34 pm Image
:roflmao
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Re: NFL Thread

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zim wrote: October 4, 2021, 8:47 pm That cowboys Panthers game was a great watch.
Moore and Diggs put on a show.
Although I'm sure I heard the commentator say "he's got aids " at one point. Is this an inside reference a newbie wouldn't understand?
I missed that.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Forgot to look at Cowboys game.

I think the Panthers are quickly proving Darnold wasn't the issue, the Jets were. He is a decent QB.

I know the topic has been broached, but is DJ Moore better than Steve Smith Snr? It's probably too early, its definitely too early, but is the potential to be there? He is really good.
They have turned Shaq Thompson into a good LB. Not a weird scheme guy.
I think Panthers are better than Bronx, but another team that was a little lucky to be 3-0. Their #1 D status has just been made a mockery of.
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Re: NFL Thread

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If you start at 16:16
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: October 4, 2021, 9:06 pm Forgot to look at Cowboys game.

I think the Panthers are quickly proving Darnold wasn't the issue, the Jets were. He is a decent QB.

I know the topic has been broached, but is DJ Moore better than Steve Smith Snr? It's probably too early, its definitely too early, but is the potential to be there? He is really good.
They have turned Shaq Thompson into a good LB. Not a weird scheme guy.
I think Panthers are better than Bronx, but another team that was a little lucky to be 3-0. Their #1 D status has just been made a mockery of.
Way too early say Moore is better than Steve Smith... Steve Smith was a MONSTER. Also easily the best quote giver in NFL history. Insanely great and fun player and personality

DJ Moore plays very much the same, that tough, hard nosed style, but he doesn't quite have the killer mentality that Steve Smith Snr had. But he's also still very young and ascending. But the potential to be on that level is certainly there for DJ Moore.
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Re: NFL Thread

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I see Urban Meyer is in trouble this morning.
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Re: NFL Thread

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Matt wrote: October 5, 2021, 8:49 am I see Urban Meyer is in trouble this morning.
The video of him getting his pig on with someone who was DEFINITELY not his wife, draped in OSU gear... it's chefs kiss stuff
I have no idea where this story is headed with the jags, but im excited for it. I think he's out at the end of the year
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: October 5, 2021, 8:44 am
Matt wrote: October 4, 2021, 9:06 pm Forgot to look at Cowboys game.

I think the Panthers are quickly proving Darnold wasn't the issue, the Jets were. He is a decent QB.

I know the topic has been broached, but is DJ Moore better than Steve Smith Snr? It's probably too early, its definitely too early, but is the potential to be there? He is really good.
They have turned Shaq Thompson into a good LB. Not a weird scheme guy.
I think Panthers are better than Bronx, but another team that was a little lucky to be 3-0. Their #1 D status has just been made a mockery of.
Way too early say Moore is better than Steve Smith... Steve Smith was a MONSTER. Also easily the best quote giver in NFL history. Insanely great and fun player and personality

DJ Moore plays very much the same, that tough, hard nosed style, but he doesn't quite have the killer mentality that Steve Smith Snr had. But he's also still very young and ascending. But the potential to be on that level is certainly there for DJ Moore.
Im sure we have had a similar conversation before. But im excited to see the "2nd coming"
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Re: NFL Thread

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Excited for this Raiders Chargers game

i've never been a big Gruden or Carr fan but there is no doubting how well the offence is humming right now and Justin Herbert is just a fun watch every time
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Re: NFL Thread

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Botman wrote: October 5, 2021, 10:38 am Excited for this Raiders Chargers game

i've never been a big Gruden or Carr fan but there is no doubting how well the offence is humming right now and Justin Herbert is just a fun watch every time
Statistically they match up really well. I think this could be really really good
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Re: NFL Thread

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Great play Hunter
How good does he go!!!
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Re: NFL Thread

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Raiders offence is disgusting tonight
Poor Alex Leatherwood is having himself a rough night
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Re: NFL Thread

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I think the Raiders got stuck in the lightening storm. They didnt arrive til the halftime break.

Herbert is damn good! Ekeler had a night out.
Glad Dallas has already played them and stolen the 'Dub'.
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Re: NFL Thread

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WFT raided by DEA. Staff with drug issues apparently. NFLs version of the peptides incident as its the sports med man Vermillion.

"Ryan Vermillion has been placed on administrative leave due to an ongoing criminal investigation that is unrelated to the team."
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Re: NFL Thread

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:lol: Never change Washington
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Re: NFL Thread

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As of 11mins ago, CBSSports is saying that the Cowboys have released Jaylon Smith.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl- ... OfiUqbnH4g

Its on the Dallas page too:
https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/cowb ... ylon-smith
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Re: NFL Thread

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He leaves behind a dead cap hit of 16.6m, which is staggering for a LB. Further strengthens my belief that teams are no long caring as much about dead cap money as they used to
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: October 6, 2021, 11:09 am He leaves behind a dead cap hit of 16.6m, which is staggering for a LB. Further strengthens my belief that teams are no long caring as much about dead cap money as they used to
I dont understand why they would do it. Thats a crazy amount.
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the bone
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by the bone »

Panthers trade a 6th round pick for Stephen Gilmore. Love it! Nice to finally have a decent GM at the Panthers after Hurney and Gettleman.
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Matt
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Matt »

the bone wrote: October 7, 2021, 3:29 am Panthers trade a 6th round pick for Stephen Gilmore. Love it! Nice to finally have a decent GM at the Panthers after Hurney and Gettleman.
2 DBs in 2 wks.
They are making a play for the playoffs
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