Coaching issues

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jimmy82
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

They we’re very close to a premiership in 2019 and it should have been ours. I mean it’s not his fault Leilua doesn’t pass the ball to rapana in the corner.
Last season we did really well also considering our injuries. This season the players are too old and past their best. The younger ones are plodders so we’re screwed either way.
We basically have a Nsw cup backline minus J.wighton
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

Unless it’s Bellamy, Bennett or Robinson who else would you want as coach? And those 3 aren’t coming
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

Unless he resigns, Ricky is going nowhere and we’re stuck with a rebuild.
The sooner you accept this the easier the weekend rubbish you see during the 80 minutes will feel...
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I am fully resigned to the Ricky Rebuild 3.0.

Last night I said I am starting to get Sack Ricky vibes. My position after sleeping on it is probably more nuanced in that he should get an opportunity to fix this mess.

But quickly. Not 2-3 years of garbage.

If we keep plonking around the rest of this year then roll into next year plonking it up again I don’t see how that is acceptable.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by LastRaider »

A coach can’t fix a team if he has lost the dressing room!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by mongoose »

jimmy82 wrote: May 30, 2021, 7:36 am They we’re very close to a premiership in 2019 and it should have been ours. I mean it’s not his fault Leilua doesn’t pass the ball to rapana in the corner.
Last season we did really well also considering our injuries. This season the players are too old and past their best. The younger ones are plodders so we’re screwed either way.
We basically have a Nsw cup backline minus J.wighton
...and Wighton isn't a smart or crafty player, he is all brute strength and athleticism. The impossible grubber he put in last night when he was 8 or 9m away from the defensive line shows Jack isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by mongoose »

The club needs a fresh approach. I don't think Stuart has it in him to rebuild successfully again and he certainly won't be able to do it in 1 off season. We aren't just out of form or lacking consistency or waiting for players to come back, we are so far off the pace it's not funny. In fact the only team performing worse than us are the Bulldogs and they have JAC and Burton coming next season. Who do we have? Our forwards can get fitter and perform better but our backline is a massive worry, even with CNK there is very little spark or attacking ability. Defensively they are just as bad.
I'm actually not sure if Stuart knows what a good, slick attacking side even looks like anymore. His coaching seems to have become very conservative and he is more interested in grinding and niggling his way to victory than actually developing players, combinations and moving the ball around.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

Mickey_Raider wrote:I am fully resigned to the Ricky Rebuild 3.0.

Last night I said I am starting to get Sack Ricky vibes. My position after sleeping on it is probably more nuanced in that he should get an opportunity to fix this mess.

But quickly. Not 2-3 years of garbage.

If we keep plonking around the rest of this year then roll into next year plonking it up again I don’t see how that is acceptable.
You need another night’s sleep to get a bit more nuanced. How many clubs have you seen turn around a squad rebuild across a season? Even done right the timeline you’ve cited is what we’re looking at unless the club gets simultaneously hit in the **** with 5 rainbows.

Sleek’s post is spot on. Now Ricky has some serious flaws as a coach, but he also has qualities you’re unlikely to get from a new coach. It is bloody hard to build a talented team in Canberra. If I’m management, Ricky’s second rebuild gave the club its greatest success in a quarter of a century. I’m keeping the baby and having a serious conversation about the bath water (attacking coach, that same coach or analytics team to drive bench management).

The only coaches I’m replacing Ricky with are Bellamy or Robinson (as much as the latter hurts me).
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

jimmy82 wrote: Exactly he built it, they were good players now their old and past their best. You can only do as good as the *Toots* you have
Fixed that for you Image
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

gangrenous wrote: May 30, 2021, 8:42 am
Mickey_Raider wrote:I am fully resigned to the Ricky Rebuild 3.0.

Last night I said I am starting to get Sack Ricky vibes. My position after sleeping on it is probably more nuanced in that he should get an opportunity to fix this mess.

But quickly. Not 2-3 years of garbage.

If we keep plonking around the rest of this year then roll into next year plonking it up again I don’t see how that is acceptable.
You need another night’s sleep to get a bit more nuanced. How many clubs have you seen turn around a squad rebuild across a season? Even done right the timeline you’ve cited is what we’re looking at unless the club gets simultaneously hit in the **** with 5 rainbows.

Sleek’s post is spot on. Now Ricky has some serious flaws as a coach, but he also has qualities you’re unlikely to get from a new coach. It is bloody hard to build a talented team in Canberra. If I’m management, Ricky’s second rebuild gave the club its greatest success in a quarter of a century. I’m keeping the baby and having a serious conversation about the bath water (attacking coach, that same coach or analytics team to drive bench management).

The only coaches I’m replacing Ricky with are Bellamy or Robinson (as much as the latter hurts me).
Maybe you didn't get your 8 hours sleep last night because I didn't say that he needs to complete a rebuild in one season.

I said he needs to fix this mess.

And by mess I mean, for starters, cleaning up the internal ructions and the clear conditioning issues we have.

Is it unreasonable to expect vast improvement on this years dross in 2022? I don't see how it is.
Last edited by Mickey_Raider on May 30, 2021, 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

mongoose wrote: May 30, 2021, 8:13 am
jimmy82 wrote: May 30, 2021, 7:36 am They we’re very close to a premiership in 2019 and it should have been ours. I mean it’s not his fault Leilua doesn’t pass the ball to rapana in the corner.
Last season we did really well also considering our injuries. This season the players are too old and past their best. The younger ones are plodders so we’re screwed either way.
We basically have a Nsw cup backline minus J.wighton
...and Wighton isn't a smart or crafty player, he is all brute strength and athleticism. The impossible grubber he put in last night when he was 8 or 9m away from the defensive line shows Jack isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
No he’s not but he ha potential the others don’t
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

gangrenous wrote: May 30, 2021, 8:44 am
jimmy82 wrote: Exactly he built it, they were good players now their old and past their best. You can only do as good as the *Toots* you have
Fixed that for you Image
:clap: :roflmao
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

This team has suffered from complacency, like it did in 2017-18.

We desperately need a turnover of players. The coach had confidence in his ageing cattle and they have been poorly prepared and they have a pretty ordinary attitude.

Until our defence is fixed (again) we will struggle. I hear a lot of talk about ball playing fullbacks and locks, but IMO this is a team that can get ahead on the scoreboard but has a habit of conceding good leads and conceding 30+ points a game. Poor fitness and attitude is outweighing our ability with the ball.

There are about 6 or 7 players I'm interested in keeping for next season. Of those, only Wighton and CNK are spine players. In reality I'd prefer Wighton at lock and CNK could play any position in the 3/4s. Maybe add Starling for depth.

Guler, Hors, Taps, Sia and Lui have all been **** this year. Papa has been disappointing. Our front row depth has been a myth.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on May 30, 2021, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 29f3363ad0

So you do you think are the problem or not buying in? I don't think Hodgson is the problem and he was one of our best players in the last two games he played. Jack was trying hard but faded.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

OK so we want to keep Stuart because he has a "big personality"... Awesome, we will continue to be a sitcom rather than a successful rugby league team then...

You know what else brings community engagement? **** winning! Maybe we should give that a go? The club doesn't even seem like it wants to bloody win most of the time because we have a "personality" bringing in sponsor money, but how long can that been maintained when all the news is negative?

We don't need personality or respect, we just need to bloody win! The Storm and Roosters give no **** about personalities or if you like them, they just **** win, consistently, and neither has any issues attracting talent, sponsorship, or gaining community engagement.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by -TW- »

Seiffert82 wrote:This team has suffered from complacency, like it did in 2017-18.

We desperately need a turnover of players. The coach had confidence in his ageing cattle and they have been poorly prepared and they have a pretty ordinary attitude.

Until our defence is fixed (again) we will struggle. I hear a lot of talk about ball playing fullbacks and locks, but IMO this is a team that can get ahead on the scoreboard but has a habit of conceding good leads and conceding 30+ points a game. Poor fitness and attitude is outweighing our ability with the ball.

There are about 6 or 7 players I'm interested in keeping for next season. Of those, only Wighton and CNK are spine players. In reality I'd prefer Wighton at lock and CNK could play any position in the 3/4s. Maybe add Starling for depth.

Guler, Hors, Taps, Sia and Lui have all been **** this year. Papa has been disappointing. Our front row depth has been a myth.
Yep that's my thoughts too.

We've had a lot of this squad since 2016, I don't know of many squads that keep the majority of their players for that long.

Hang on to your key spine players and gradually turn over the rest of the squad

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

Additionally - If we give Stuart another rebuild that means we are gambling the next SIX YEARS on it...

Stuart rebuild - At least three years, at the end he retires to his mansion to swim in his money while we all then get to sit though:

New coach's rebuild - Another rebuild, by this time the team has been a bottom feeder for four years, attracting talent will be more difficult unless Canberra builds a beach somewhere.

So basically if we give Stuart another chance, even though all the evidence states doing so is utterly insane, we are all buying in to supporting watching that garbage from last night on a fortnightly basis for the next five years? Fun....
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

Sleek the Elite wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:05 pm Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
Sound like a codependent boyfriend/girlfriend. "We'll never get anyone better..."
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

"Ricky Stuart is the spirit of the Raiders", maybe that's part of the problem, we're too dependent on him. It's always "Ricky's Raiders" etc.

Anyway I disagree with the panel, I think our depth players just aren't as good as we thought. Papa, Bateman, Tapine, peak Leipana etc have just been proven to be very hard to replace. Even CNK, I rate at least half the fullbacks in the comp above him, but he does tighten the defence. Wighton got a disproportionate amount of the accolades in 2019/20 due to the Clive Churchill medal, he couldn't playmake then and he can't playmake now. Combine that with poor fitness and no matter who we chop and change with, the result will be the same

The cherry on top is trying to play this grinding style, and having the squad built around that (ie over representation of middles), which doesn't suit Vlandysball at all
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 30, 2021, 10:51 am "Ricky Stuart is the spirit of the Raiders", maybe that's part of the problem, we're too dependent on him. It's always "Ricky's Raiders" etc.

Anyway I disagree with the panel, I think our depth players just aren't as good as we thought. Papa, Bateman, Tapine, peak Leipana etc have just been proven to be very hard to replace. Even CNK, I rate at least half the fullbacks in the comp above him, but he does tighten the defence. Wighton got a disproportionate amount of the accolades in 2019/20 due to the Clive Churchill medal, he couldn't playmake then and he can't playmake now. Combine that with poor fitness and no matter who we chop and change with, the result will be the same

The cherry on top is trying to play this grinding style, and having the squad built around that (ie over representation of middles), which doesn't suit Vlandysball at all
I'm just as frustrated like you, angry is not the feeling anymore as I've accepted we are !@##, make stupid mistakes, play unattractive football, lose after taking the lead, after the game watch Ricky's uninspiring presser blaming it on luck, and then have the NRL360 panel speak about our off field problems during the week. Agree Jack is not a playmaker, he reminds me of a better version of Shaun Timmins, he's out of form but the problems run very deep in our club. Our style of football wasn't attractive last year and there were problems but making the prelim final papered over that. Roosters have youngsters coming through and could even lose Latrell but we don't have the quality through our ranks. I couldn't believe Sia played last night. Besides the Cronulla game he's added nothing this year. Someone on this forum was right when they said Roosters or Melbourne would tell him to retire.

I don't know what the Club should do about Ricky. I've stopped being angry. All all know he's not the best tactical coach and he's stubborn. When you look at his coaching record at his previous clubs, he made the GF with Roosters in 2003-4 then dropped off. His last year there was like this year with us. Similar feeling. Same with Cronulla. Made prelim final then second last.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

If Knights and Sharks win today we will be 14th.

It is not remotely acceptable for a team with a “premiership window” thread open less than 2 months ago.

It is hard to believe there are people in this thread implicitly willing to cop another extended period of cellar dwelling purgatory based on some beta, co-dependency attitude that without Ricky we can’t survive.

As stated above. He needs to fix it immediately. Improve for the rest of the year and be competing for top 8 again next year. Anything else is just a complete and utter acceptance of mediocrity.
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Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

You sound like an American who voted for Trump because they needed a change.

You’ve got to have a superior option on the table. There is also a LOT of downplaying the success of 2019 on the basis of not getting one pass/decent refereeing.

Ricky has had reasonable success where others have failed. Don’t rush back to complete failure in search of perfection without an alternative that is plausibly worth the risk.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by yurithe1 »

I'm in favour of bringing in someone with a fresh perspective. The press conference last night showed to me that Ricky is out of answers because he's too much a part of the situation team finds itself in right now.

Bring in John Morris or someone (apart from Gus Gould) to do a review in the next few weeks. That way, perhaps something can be salvaged from this season and the club can look at what needs to be done with plenty of time before the 2022 season to implement any fixes. Could be a change of coaching strategy, coach(es), individual players being released and/or key recruits brought in.

I'm nominating Morris because he has managed to get a second-rate Cronulla side into the finals in the past. He knows how the game is played right now and the pressure head coaches are under. If coaching is the issue, then he can identify the problem and whether that problem is Ricky and/or his staff. Ricky can then have a chance to change his ways. Ricky is known for his stubbornness, so he might not accept what he's told. If that's the case, remember, Don Jnr sacked his own brother. I have faith he can and will sack Ricky and co. if that's what's necessary for the good of the club.

If it's the support staff, then that side of the house should be given a refresh. Ricky's comment about Sammy last night that he will make a great coach one day suggests that maybe a spot could or should open up before the end of 2021.

Morris can interview the players as an outsider to find out what they really think. No names no pack drill first and foremost when his report is presented to the board. However, if players want to leave, that's when they should say so to allow the recruiting process to kick in. Morris can just say that he thinks Player X needs to be moved on without it coming back to bite the player in the meantime.

He can also assess the players without the burden of feeling loyal to any of them. There are a few who come to mind who have been around one season too many, IMHO.

Waiting until the end of the season to do a review is way too late.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

gangrenous wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:25 pm You sound like an American who voted for Trump because they needed a change.

You’ve got to have a superior option on the table. There is also a LOT of downplaying the success of 2019 on the basis of not getting one pass/decent refereeing.

Ricky has had reasonable success where others have failed. Don’t rush back to complete failure in search of perfection without an alternative that is plausibly worth the risk.
Strange analogy.

If you want to convince yourself that it is inherently unreasonable to believe that a coach shortly to be in his 9th season with a club shouldn't afforded unlimited rebuilds (*insert Emperor Palpatine meme*)....well, fill your boots son.

If the other clubs in the league retained coaches on the basis of modest or short lived successes then Green would still be coaching at the Cowboys.

Anyway as I stated already, Ricky can and will have a chance to fix this mess. He needs to make some serious adjustments.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

Buckle up for more hurtin and bad luck boys...
I’m told there wasn’t a black cat, mirror or ladder safe around the club during the off-season....
..loooooooong season awaits..
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

Mickey_Raider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:25 pm You sound like an American who voted for Trump because they needed a change.

You’ve got to have a superior option on the table. There is also a LOT of downplaying the success of 2019 on the basis of not getting one pass/decent refereeing.

Ricky has had reasonable success where others have failed. Don’t rush back to complete failure in search of perfection without an alternative that is plausibly worth the risk.
Strange analogy.

If you want to convince yourself that it is inherently unreasonable to believe that a coach shortly to be in his 9th season with a club shouldn't afforded unlimited rebuilds (*insert Emperor Palpatine meme*)....well, fill your boots son.

If the other clubs in the league retained coaches on the basis of modest or short lived successes then Green would still be coaching at the Cowboys.

Anyway as I stated already, Ricky can and will have a chance to fix this mess. He needs to make some serious adjustments.
You’re not addressing my point at all. Which is that switching for the sake of it without a considered risk alternative is dumb - hence the Trump analogy.

That has nothing to do with how long Ricky has been here, or what other clubs may or may not do (P.S. you may want to highlight which club has jumped to sustained success chopping and changing coaches?).
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

-TW- wrote: May 30, 2021, 10:37 am
Seiffert82 wrote:This team has suffered from complacency, like it did in 2017-18.

We desperately need a turnover of players. The coach had confidence in his ageing cattle and they have been poorly prepared and they have a pretty ordinary attitude.

Until our defence is fixed (again) we will struggle. I hear a lot of talk about ball playing fullbacks and locks, but IMO this is a team that can get ahead on the scoreboard but has a habit of conceding good leads and conceding 30+ points a game. Poor fitness and attitude is outweighing our ability with the ball.

There are about 6 or 7 players I'm interested in keeping for next season. Of those, only Wighton and CNK are spine players. In reality I'd prefer Wighton at lock and CNK could play any position in the 3/4s. Maybe add Starling for depth.

Guler, Hors, Taps, Sia and Lui have all been **** this year. Papa has been disappointing. Our front row depth has been a myth.
Yep that's my thoughts too.

We've had a lot of this squad since 2016, I don't know of many squads that keep the majority of their players for that long.

Hang on to your key spine players and gradually turn over the rest of the squad

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Yeah, it will take a year or 3 to be competitive. We've got to accept that veterans like Papalii, Wighton and Whitehead might help with that transition, but realistically those blokes aren't going to be playing the next time we are competing for a title.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mr Squiggle »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 9:04 am https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 29f3363ad0

So you do you think are the problem or not buying in? I don't think Hodgson is the problem and he was one of our best players in the last two games he played. Jack was trying hard but faded.
Of course it is. Cronk spent the best part of 15 years under the tutelage of the best two coaches in the game. He probably knows more about what it takes to coach a premiership and build a motivated and complimentary roster than Ricky.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by cat »

I don't believe Sticky has lost the shed, I do think there are 2-3 players who need to go and are stirring the pot.
Are they being led by managers? I hope so.
Is one of them thinking long term and after spending time in the coaches box last season think he is the next master coach and thinks his opinion should count more then Ricky's? Certainly!

Are the players feeling torn between their team mates who are pushing their own agenda and listening to Ricky. Possibly

Will this sort itself out, yep you will find the bad eggs will be gone by the season end.

Will it be a bumpy ride? You betcha!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Will we win another game this season? No chance.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Azza »

Will Nockman's incessant verbal diahorrea show any signs of abatement? No chance
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by bonehead »

cat wrote:I don't believe Sticky has lost the shed, I do think there are 2-3 players who need to go and are stirring the pot.
Are they being led by managers? I hope so.
Is one of them thinking long term and after spending time in the coaches box last season think he is the next master coach and thinks his opinion should count more then Ricky's? Certainly!

Are the players feeling torn between their team mates who are pushing their own agenda and listening to Ricky. Possibly

Will this sort itself out, yep you will find the bad eggs will be gone by the season end.

Will it be a bumpy ride? You betcha!
I think he has cat, last night was gutless

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Thomas Raider »

Me thinks the bad eggs should go now before June 30th,and move on,the season's over!!!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by cat »

I disagree Bonehead

The players put in , and they were hurting after the game.

We all need some luck sometimes and we are getting none. All 50/50 calls are going the other way , injuries/suspension to key players, constant media background buzz all does have an impact.

I saw the players leaving after the game, they were hurting. They stopped and signed autographs, had photos etc but they were hurting


When a coach has lost the shed you see the players laughing, smiling enjoying themselves after the game

That is not happening at our club.

Are they trying too hard? Maybe
Looking for too many answers? Maybe

I have been at nearly all games this season and i am convinced the boys care and care for Ricky
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Coastalraider
David Furner
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Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Coastalraider »

cat wrote: May 30, 2021, 4:13 pm I disagree Bonehead

The players put in , and they were hurting after the game.

We all need some luck sometimes and we are getting none. All 50/50 calls are going the other way , injuries/suspension to key players, constant media background buzz all does have an impact.

I saw the players leaving after the game, they were hurting. They stopped and signed autographs, had photos etc but they were hurting


When a coach has lost the shed you see the players laughing, smiling enjoying themselves after the game

That is not happening at our club.

Are they trying too hard? Maybe
Looking for too many answers? Maybe

I have been at nearly all games this season and i am convinced the boys care and care for Ricky
In tough times, teammates look to leaders. If those leaders either aren’t performing, or aren’t getting results, you loose your confidence in the outcome. If those leaders playing styles directly contradict how the rest of the team is trying to play, you lose confidence in the outcome. If the standards in training those leaders are setting are low, you lose accountability across a complete playing group.

Cat has nailed this. The bad eggs will be gone. I hope the recruits can help with a culture shift.
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