Coaching issues

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RedRaider
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by RedRaider »

Looked at the Storm staff listing. They have a Physical Preparation Coach - Speed and Fitness. Marcus Kain. Seems like a role suited to footy in 2021. Storm lack neither speed or fitness. We have our second half issues. Something for the Club to consider for 2022.
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-TW-
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by -TW- »

We have an athletic development coach, it's the same **** different name

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 28, 2021, 6:02 pm They're semi ball playing in that they add width to the attack etc. Tapine is not of that mould at all. Interestingly Melbourne still don't use one and they have arguably the best attack, so it's not a necessity
Smith plays that role when Grant returns.
Melbourne are so potent in attack they can adapt with or without a ball player at lock.

The key to attacking in the current game is being able to do it with no set up plays...

The good teams take 3 or 4 bites at you each set of 6 and are fit enough to run multiple decoys on almost every play...

Last week, we had players offside in attack when we were attacking the Melbourne line!!!

How unfit must we be to be buggered when attacking??
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Lui_Bon »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 28, 2021, 6:02 pm They're semi ball playing in that they add width to the attack etc. Tapine is not of that mould at all. Interestingly Melbourne still don't use one and they have arguably the best attack, so it's not a necessity
alright, I'd argue you are wrong, Penrith have the best attack. Both the facts and the alleged eye-test say so. Though if we could be half as good as Melbourne that's be great... I still want to see Wighton at lock - and after hearing ABC radio reports today with Ricky talking up how great Sam Williams is ("He's a coach in waiting") he'll be staying. So we either stagnate or we buy a 5/8 (who's better than the reigning Dally-M one, I know, but sit still and the world goes by). As long as it isn't Corey Norman.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by rayden83 »

RedRaider wrote: May 28, 2021, 6:03 pm Looked at the Storm staff listing. They have a Physical Preparation Coach - Speed and Fitness. Marcus Kain. Seems like a role suited to footy in 2021. Storm lack neither speed or fitness. We have our second half issues. Something for the Club to consider for 2022.
Maybe a sports psychologist for the Raiders.
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Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

Yep, let’s poach the Marc of Kain
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

LastRaider wrote: May 28, 2021, 2:50 pm Stuart in the press conference yesterday

"We spoke at length on Wednesday and a bit on Tuesday in regards to his [Hodgson] role at both No.9 and No.13. I think the game is moving more towards a ball-playing No.13 these days."

Ball-playing no. 13? What planet is he on seriously!

Ball-playing fullback we need! A no. 13 needs to be agile, excellent defender in the middle to contain the 6-again rule who can push a quick play the ball.

We are so doomed!
I'm with you. The best 13s in the game are strong defenders who can provide a link when ball playing. They aren't ball players to the standard of Scott Hill or Nik Kosef. With Hodgson we'd be going back to the 90s version but with a much weaker defender and very little in the tank for carrying the ball. The lateral speed of Hodgo is a major concern in this role. It also puts a lot on our other 4 ball carrying forwards, who have massive fatigue problems already.

Hudson Young would be my choice at 13 while Tapine is out.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Northern Raider »

GreenMachine wrote: May 28, 2021, 8:43 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: May 28, 2021, 6:02 pm They're semi ball playing in that they add width to the attack etc. Tapine is not of that mould at all. Interestingly Melbourne still don't use one and they have arguably the best attack, so it's not a necessity
Smith plays that role when Grant returns.
Melbourne are so potent in attack they can adapt with or without a ball player at lock.

The key to attacking in the current game is being able to do it with no set up plays...

The good teams take 3 or 4 bites at you each set of 6 and are fit enough to run multiple decoys on almost every play...

Last week, we had players offside in attack when we were attacking the Melbourne line!!!

How unfit must we be to be buggered when attacking??
Smith doesn't ball play when he's wearing 13. He runs like a madman headlong at the defensive line. Pretty damn good at it too.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by LastRaider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
LastRaider wrote: May 28, 2021, 2:50 pm Stuart in the press conference yesterday

"We spoke at length on Wednesday and a bit on Tuesday in regards to his [Hodgson] role at both No.9 and No.13. I think the game is moving more towards a ball-playing No.13 these days."

Ball-playing no. 13? What planet is he on seriously!

Ball-playing fullback we need! A no. 13 needs to be agile, excellent defender in the middle to contain the 6-again rule who can push a quick play the ball.

We are so doomed!
I'm with you. The best 13s in the game are strong defenders who can provide a link when ball playing. They aren't ball players to the standard of Scott Hill or Nik Kosef. With Hodgson we'd be going back to the 90s version but with a much weaker defender and very little in the tank for carrying the ball. The lateral speed of Hodgo is a major concern in this role. It also puts a lot on our other 4 ball carrying forwards, who have massive fatigue problems already.

Hudson Young would be my choice at 13 while Tapine is out.
Unfortunately I think both Hudson and Tapine can get a little lazy in defence and that’s when the penalties start to be blown. I actually don’t think we have anyone in the squad who fits the mould we need. Those two are the best options though at this stage
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by RedRaider »

-TW- wrote: May 28, 2021, 7:30 pm We have an athletic development coach, it's the same **** different name

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Unfortunately, very different outcomes as well TW. Our second halves suggest both physical and concentration on the task issues.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 28, 2021, 6:02 pm They're semi ball playing in that they add width to the attack etc. Tapine is not of that mould at all. Interestingly Melbourne still don't use one and they have arguably the best attack, so it's not a necessity
Correct
We're talking ball playing relative to the position, ball distributors is probably a more accurate term
As you say, it's not a requirement but a lot teams including the Panthers, Roosters and Storm (Cheese plays that role for them when they've got him and Grant on the field at the same time) are using that mould. It appears to be the direct the position is going right now.

Now i dont know that Josh Hodgson is the answer to that, he's not exactly victor radley out there so im not super wild about Hodgson being used that way, but im open to seeing how it goes. But yeah that's kind of what the best teams are doing these days
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Rickmando »

How has this thread devolved into player analysis - fair dinkum some of you are way too fixated on individuals.

This team is sent out every week with no clue how to play the game of modern rugby league. EVERY WEEK! It’s clear there is no structure or tactical planning. So you can argue about player X or player Y all you like (lord knows there’s already plenty of other threads dedicated to them) but how can ANYONE not see this is a team that abysmally coached??????

Personnel is basically irrelevant when they can’t even structure a basic set of 6 in attack.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ilanraiders »

Same stuff different week!!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

We consistently drop leads and then lose by four times that score... But it's not the coach.... Exactly what does a coach do if none of the **** we are dishing up every week is his fault?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mr Squiggle »

It is pretty obvious he's lost the dressing room. We haven't strung this many pathetic defensive displays together since just before Furner was given the flick.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

Rickmando wrote: May 29, 2021, 8:50 pm How has this thread devolved into player analysis - fair dinkum some of you are way too fixated on individuals.

This team is sent out every week with no clue how to play the game of modern rugby league. EVERY WEEK! It’s clear there is no structure or tactical planning. So you can argue about player X or player Y all you like (lord knows there’s already plenty of other threads dedicated to them) but how can ANYONE not see this is a team that abysmally coached??????

Personnel is basically irrelevant when they can’t even structure a basic set of 6 in attack.
Yep. I've never seen a team die with the ball on the 6th tackle more than this team. Nor a team back each other up less. I know it's a phrase often used in jest, but truly, we look like we just met in the carpark. I cannot believe this is a team with $30m Centre of Excellence, and a multi-million dollar coaching team. Just boggles the mind.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by LastRaider »

Can we please name this thread “Sack Ricky Today”
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by united »

If Ricky hasn’t already lost the dressing shed, he’s certainly doing everything he can to annoy the players.
Hodgson comes out and say he isn’t a bench player, so Ricky buckles, starts him and the bloke who has been playing pretty decent footy for us in Starling gets 20 mins.
Not only did he just get 20 mins but Ricky put him on when we are defending our line??
He is the only spark in our attack at the moment.
Is Ricky deadset brain dead??
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Justd79 »

united wrote: May 29, 2021, 9:49 pm If Ricky hasn’t already lost the dressing shed, he’s certainly doing everything he can to annoy the players.
Hodgson comes out and say he isn’t a bench player, so Ricky buckles, starts him and the bloke who has been playing pretty decent footy for us in Starling gets 20 mins.
Not only did he just get 20 mins but Ricky put him on when we are defending our line??
He is the only spark in our attack at the moment.
Is Ricky deadset brain dead??

Yes. I hope this helps.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

Straight from the horse's mouth - Ricky has no idea what the issue is or what to do to fix the situation.

We're done.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Rickmando »

Leebola wrote: May 29, 2021, 10:24 pm Straight from the horse's mouth - Ricky has no idea what the issue is or what to do to fix the situation.

We're done.
Well then what the hell are we paying you for then Rick???
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by LastRaider »

Rickmando wrote:
Leebola wrote: May 29, 2021, 10:24 pm Straight from the horse's mouth - Ricky has no idea what the issue is or what to do to fix the situation.

We're done.
Well then what the hell are we paying you for then Rick???
The issue is the coach! How does the Raiders management not get that.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

After another wasted Saturday night spending my time and money to watch that dross, I think I am getting towards Sack Ricky territory.

Anyone else?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Leebola »

LastRaider wrote: May 29, 2021, 10:30 pm
Rickmando wrote:
Leebola wrote: May 29, 2021, 10:24 pm Straight from the horse's mouth - Ricky has no idea what the issue is or what to do to fix the situation.

We're done.
Well then what the hell are we paying you for then Rick???
The issue is the coach! How does the Raiders management not get that.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Sleek the Elite »

Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Sleek the Elite wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:05 pm Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
Agree. There needs to be a compelling option out there to move on from Ricky. I just don't see it. 3 Prelims in 5 years when we hadn't been to one in 20 years. He deserves the chance to get us back on track, if we're in the same spot in 12 months then it becomes a conversation.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Lui_Bon »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:49 pm
Sleek the Elite wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:05 pm Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
Agree. There needs to be a compelling option out there to move on from Ricky. I just don't see it. 3 Prelims in 5 years when we hadn't been to one in 20 years. He deserves the chance to get us back on track, if we're in the same spot in 12 months then it becomes a conversation.
All fair points. But bets are off if he doesn't shake up the off-field staff over summer. This season's already gone, provided it isn't a spoon he's safe. And probably even then.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Lui_Bon wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:55 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:49 pm
Sleek the Elite wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:05 pm Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
Agree. There needs to be a compelling option out there to move on from Ricky. I just don't see it. 3 Prelims in 5 years when we hadn't been to one in 20 years. He deserves the chance to get us back on track, if we're in the same spot in 12 months then it becomes a conversation.
All fair points. But bets are off if he doesn't shake up the off-field staff over summer. This season's already gone, provided it isn't a spoon he's safe. And probably even then.
Up to now I have agreed. I also felt that there was a reasonable chance that Ricky would be able to turn it around, as he did in 2019.

But I find it remarkable that a coach is entitled to a 3rd rebuild. It is very clear that this iteration of the squad that Ricky built has failed and is falling apart.

He will also be going into his 9th season at the Raiders next year. That is at least 2-3x more than most NRL coaches are afforded in order to deliver a premiership.

And not only that, if we continue with Ricky we are giving the keys to start the process again, from scratch.

I guess I am wondering, at what point does the acceptance come it is time to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas around the steering wheel?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Lui_Bon »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:03 am
Lui_Bon wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:55 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:49 pm
Sleek the Elite wrote: May 29, 2021, 11:05 pm Sorry to say it guys (not really), but the club just isn't in a position to move on from Ricky.

There's more to being first grade coach at this club than just winning football games. Ricky is the figurehead, the big personality that means the club is taken seriously outside of Canberra, the person who can attract talent to the club. We hadn't been in a grand final since 1994 until he turned up. 1994 was a long time ago, guys. 2019 isn't.

The only thing sacking Ricky will do is return the Raiders to being the second winter sport team in Canberra behind the Bwumbies. Or maybe third behind the Bwumbies and Western SYDNEY Giants. Do people really want that? B/c that's what the club is in for if he goes. Don't believe me? That's where we were for many years until Ricky returned to the club.

A lot of those good Bwumbies from back in the day would have been Raiders if Wiki, err I mean Ricky, was the coach.

Tough job coaching the Raiders. It's a job for a tough man. I can't think of anyone tougher than Ricky.

Get on board or get off is my message to players. The people crying about Ricky don't have any solutions. Even 'sign Bellamy' isn't a solution. He doesn't have the big personality required to keep the team at the forefront of public consciousness in the way that Ricky does. I'd be much more concerned about the future of the club if Ricky were to move on than I am with Ricky at the helm. We're in a bad patch but buckle up you bunch of Chief Ministers and ride it out.
Agree. There needs to be a compelling option out there to move on from Ricky. I just don't see it. 3 Prelims in 5 years when we hadn't been to one in 20 years. He deserves the chance to get us back on track, if we're in the same spot in 12 months then it becomes a conversation.
All fair points. But bets are off if he doesn't shake up the off-field staff over summer. This season's already gone, provided it isn't a spoon he's safe. And probably even then.
Up to now I have agreed. I also felt that there was a reasonable chance that Ricky would be able to turn it around, as he did in 2019.

But I find it remarkable that a coach is entitled to a 3rd rebuild. It is very clear that this iteration of the squad that Ricky built has failed and is falling apart.

He will also be going into his 9th season at the Raiders next year. That is at least 2-3x more than most NRL coaches are afforded in order to deliver a premiership.

And not only that, if we continue with Ricky we are giving the keys to start the process again, from scratch.

I guess I am wondering, at what point does the acceptance come it is time to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas around the steering wheel?
Oh god yes indeed, I suppose I am just resigned to him not being moved on by a ruthless and success-oriented Board. No-one else would allow a non-premiership coach a 3rd rebuild, but we are special. So we might as well suffer while waiting for the next rebuild!

Acceptance that it is time for a new coach comes when the failed rebuild after this one peters out to its inevitable whimpering conclusion.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:03 am
Up to now I have agreed. I also felt that there was a reasonable chance that Ricky would be able to turn it around, as he did in 2019.

But I find it remarkable that a coach is entitled to a 3rd rebuild. It is very clear that this iteration of the squad that Ricky built has failed and is falling apart.

He will also be going into his 9th season at the Raiders next year. That is at least 2-3x more than most NRL coaches are afforded in order to deliver a premiership.

And not only that, if we continue with Ricky we are giving the keys to start the process again, from scratch.

I guess I am wondering, at what point does the acceptance come it is time to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas around the steering wheel?
Give us some options on the fresh blood. I'm not punting Stuart to bring in Mary McGregor or David Furner for the sake of change.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:24 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:03 am
Up to now I have agreed. I also felt that there was a reasonable chance that Ricky would be able to turn it around, as he did in 2019.

But I find it remarkable that a coach is entitled to a 3rd rebuild. It is very clear that this iteration of the squad that Ricky built has failed and is falling apart.

He will also be going into his 9th season at the Raiders next year. That is at least 2-3x more than most NRL coaches are afforded in order to deliver a premiership.

And not only that, if we continue with Ricky we are giving the keys to start the process again, from scratch.

I guess I am wondering, at what point does the acceptance come it is time to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas around the steering wheel?
Give us some options on the fresh blood. I'm not punting Stuart to bring in Mary McGregor or David Furner for the sake of change.
I don't have any options for you, although at any point in time there are usually approximately 16+ assistant coaches cutting their teeth and 16 head coaches plying their trade day in day out in the NRL.

My general point is Ricky's tenure is actually getting quite long in the tooth in relative terms. Does it have an expiry date or is he just the Kim Jong Il "President for Eternity" of the Raiders until he decides he has had enough?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:31 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:24 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 12:03 am
Up to now I have agreed. I also felt that there was a reasonable chance that Ricky would be able to turn it around, as he did in 2019.

But I find it remarkable that a coach is entitled to a 3rd rebuild. It is very clear that this iteration of the squad that Ricky built has failed and is falling apart.

He will also be going into his 9th season at the Raiders next year. That is at least 2-3x more than most NRL coaches are afforded in order to deliver a premiership.

And not only that, if we continue with Ricky we are giving the keys to start the process again, from scratch.

I guess I am wondering, at what point does the acceptance come it is time to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas around the steering wheel?
Give us some options on the fresh blood. I'm not punting Stuart to bring in Mary McGregor or David Furner for the sake of change.
I don't have any options for you, although at any point in time there are usually approximately 16+ assistant coaches cutting their teeth and 16 head coaches plying their trade day in day out in the NRL.

My general point is Ricky's tenure is actually getting quite long in the tooth in relative terms. Does it have an expiry date or is he just the Kim Jong Il "President for Eternity" of the Raiders until he decides he has had enough?
Not eternity, but I'd hazard a guess he'd get two more years of grace from HQ. As mentioned I think he should be under pressure if we start slowly next year, not prior to then.
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jimmy82
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

Half our squad are pensioners and the other half are plodders. Why isn’t he entitled to a rebuild?
He is the only coach that has attracted quality players to this club.
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Mickey_Raider
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

jimmy82 wrote: May 30, 2021, 7:20 am Half our squad are pensioners and the other half are plodders. Why isn’t he entitled to a rebuild?
He is the only coach that has attracted quality players to this club.
Id say the general argument against your proposition is that he has already had 2 rebuilds, 8 years in the saddle and not delivered a premiership.

The pensioners and plodders you speak of are the exact squad which Ricky built. He didn’t inherit them from anyone.
Up The Milk
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jimmy82
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by jimmy82 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 30, 2021, 7:30 am
jimmy82 wrote: May 30, 2021, 7:20 am Half our squad are pensioners and the other half are plodders. Why isn’t he entitled to a rebuild?
He is the only coach that has attracted quality players to this club.
Id say the general argument against your proposition is that he has already had 2 rebuilds, 8 years in the saddle and not delivered a premiership.

The pensioners and plodders you speak of are the exact squad which Ricky built. He didn’t inherit them from anyone.
Exactly he built it, they were good players now their old and past their best. You can only do as good as the tools you have
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