Jack Wighton

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BadnMean
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by BadnMean »

I'm sorry I just don't understand why Frawley, our reserve grade half who is passed over for S Williams when we need to use a half in FG, who is very much the secondary kicker in reggies is suddebly superior to Starling in kicking (yeah maybe), ball playing or smarts... in a position he never plays. It's weird.

If Hodgo or Starling are not the answer at hooker, then career reserve grade half Frawley is not it either.

Personally I think Hodgo and Starling are the answer at hooker. Either one or both. Then lets look at our back 5. Then worry about halves. One of those positional brackets is pure bottom 4 material. And it's not our hooker or halves rotation.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Bennyinthewest »

After Jack's 2nd year in the top grade, my opinion hasn't changed of him.

Freak athlete, positioning (in spine positions) needed practise but seems it's something he didn't take to naturally. But his ball playing was he weakest (compared to quality halves) was his weakest area for me. He doesn't bite into the line properly n hold up defenders and his pass more often than not seemed pre meditated, which sometimes came off (correct guess) which covered hlthat weakness sometimes.

Now I'm not all nego, he is one of the absolute elite tacklers and all I've ever wanted is for him to bulk n play lock, and play lock for Australia

Just let him do what he is great at, tip on or early passes, run hard, and absolutely wreck everyone that runs near him

Unfortunately we have 1000 forwards n can't do that

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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by afgtnk »

BadnMean wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:56 am I'm sorry I just don't understand why Frawley, our reserve grade half who is passed over for S Williams when we need to use a half in FG, who is very much the secondary kicker in reggies is suddebly superior to Starling in kicking (yeah maybe), ball playing or smarts... in a position he never plays. It's weird.

If Hodgo or Starling are not the answer at hooker, then career reserve grade half Frawley is not it either.

Personally I think Hodgo and Starling are the answer at hooker. Either one or both. Then lets look at our back 5. Then worry about halves. One of those positional brackets is pure bottom 4 material. And it's not our hooker or halves rotation.
This place has gone nuts :lol:

**** me, Matt Frawley at 9

I'd forgotten how badly people lose their minds when we get into deep ruts
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by The Nickman »

mongoose wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:55 am Jack is perfectly fine as a running 5/8, in fact he's one the best in the NRL. Problem is we have a predictable halfback who has an average kicking game, a hooker who either makes poor decisions (Hodgson) or one who isn't a ball player (Starling) plus a fullback who isn't a ball player. Jack is being asked to do too much, it's ridiculous that he's our first choice kicker. Stuart wants him to be Laurie Daley or Brad Fitler, he is neither of those players and never will be.
So... it's everyone else's fault for Jack's simply CRIMINAL two to three shockers a game, is it?

Rightio then!
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by The Nickman »

afgtnk wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:24 am
BadnMean wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:56 am I'm sorry I just don't understand why Frawley, our reserve grade half who is passed over for S Williams when we need to use a half in FG, who is very much the secondary kicker in reggies is suddebly superior to Starling in kicking (yeah maybe), ball playing or smarts... in a position he never plays. It's weird.

If Hodgo or Starling are not the answer at hooker, then career reserve grade half Frawley is not it either.

Personally I think Hodgo and Starling are the answer at hooker. Either one or both. Then lets look at our back 5. Then worry about halves. One of those positional brackets is pure bottom 4 material. And it's not our hooker or halves rotation.
This place has gone nuts :lol:

**** me, Matt Frawley at 9

I'd forgotten how badly people lose their minds when we get into deep ruts
Hahaha yeah, it's absolutely ludicrous how this place goes to absolute madness when we should be sticking sol... sticking together
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Luffto »

I genuinely thought this was an inside joke about bring Craig Frawley back
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:33 am
mongoose wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:55 am Jack is perfectly fine as a running 5/8, in fact he's one the best in the NRL. Problem is we have a predictable halfback who has an average kicking game, a hooker who either makes poor decisions (Hodgson) or one who isn't a ball player (Starling) plus a fullback who isn't a ball player. Jack is being asked to do too much, it's ridiculous that he's our first choice kicker. Stuart wants him to be Laurie Daley or Brad Fitler, he is neither of those players and never will be.
So... it's everyone else's fault for Jack's simply CRIMINAL two to three shockers a game, is it?

Rightio then!
'You have to understand, we here like to hand wave the failures of certain players, because it allows us to focus on the select few that are in the crosshairs, and where possible, pin the failures of GH favourites onto those in the crosshairs. ATAOATGHI
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:41 am
The Nickman wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:33 am
mongoose wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:55 am Jack is perfectly fine as a running 5/8, in fact he's one the best in the NRL. Problem is we have a predictable halfback who has an average kicking game, a hooker who either makes poor decisions (Hodgson) or one who isn't a ball player (Starling) plus a fullback who isn't a ball player. Jack is being asked to do too much, it's ridiculous that he's our first choice kicker. Stuart wants him to be Laurie Daley or Brad Fitler, he is neither of those players and never will be.
So... it's everyone else's fault for Jack's simply CRIMINAL two to three shockers a game, is it?

Rightio then!
'You have to understand, we here like to hand wave the failures of certain players, because it allows us to focus on the select few that are in the crosshairs, and where possible, pin the failures of GH favourites onto those in the crosshairs. ATAOATGHI
I STILL can't get over Steve **** Blocker Roach claiming that he loves how Jack takes the line on as he spills it short on third.

I'd rather he didn't do it in that case!
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Canberra Milk »

The way the modern game has evolved, I could see Jacky boy playing lock

But why would we? He's our best long kicker, has a great bomb. His potential replacement Sam Williams has a very weak long kick in comparison

He is not a great playmaker/assistor but there's no one else in our team who's any better. Ok Sammy's probably a bit better, but has other downsides and is not that amazing to warrant selection

The obvious solution to all this is just get a game manager at halfback, who can play both sides. It's no big secret. We've been hoping it would be Gwilly but that's looking less and less likely. Jack is a guy who can only do half the job. He's not a Thurston who can do it all himself (few are)
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by mongoose »

Jack is not a good long kicker, he's a poor long kicker and Williams is even worse. In fact our poor long kicking is causing a lot of issues for the team. We should be throwing the bank at Adam Reynolds to be honest.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Canberra Milk »

He's not poor. Who's better than him? Only the top tier ones: Reynolds, Moses, Cleary etc. That doesn't make him poor. He can hoof the ball downfield
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

He's got a big boot, but there is not a lot of refinement or touch on his long kicking game
Just sort of puts his foot through the ball and aims it in a general direction... he's not good enough to use his long kicking game strategically to pin teams down or turn them around and win the territory battle
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Canberra Milk
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Canberra Milk »

Agree but that doesn't make him poor. Few can do that
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Canberra Milk »

Clifford was doing some great long kicks v Broncos though, was a bit jelly
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 1:42 pm He's got a big boot, but there is not a lot of refinement or touch on his long kicking game
Just sort of puts his foot through the ball and aims it in a general direction... he's not good enough to use his long kicking game strategically to pin teams down or turn them around and win the territory battle
I’d argue in the modern game nobody is good enough to dominate consistently with long kicking. Metres are too easy to come by with ball in hand these days.

Usually any dominant kicking game will come off the back of dominating the collision.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 10, 2021, 1:49 pm
Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 1:42 pm He's got a big boot, but there is not a lot of refinement or touch on his long kicking game
Just sort of puts his foot through the ball and aims it in a general direction... he's not good enough to use his long kicking game strategically to pin teams down or turn them around and win the territory battle
I’d argue in the modern game nobody is good enough to dominate consistently with long kicking. Metres are too easy to come by with ball in hand these days.

Usually any dominant kicking game will come off the back of dominating the collision.
I think the best teams still find ways to use the long kicking game to slowly whittle away at the territory game, i agree with the idea that it comes off dominating the collisions but part of doing that is getting teams into a smaller box early in the set, where you can load up defensively and keep them from getting a roll on.

It's a little chicken or the egg i guess but too often teams are starting their set at the 30+ against us, because our kicks dont make them move and they can chew up 20 metres before they're near a defender.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by RichmondRaider »

afgtnk wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:24 am
BadnMean wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:56 am I'm sorry I just don't understand why Frawley, our reserve grade half who is passed over for S Williams when we need to use a half in FG, who is very much the secondary kicker in reggies is suddebly superior to Starling in kicking (yeah maybe), ball playing or smarts... in a position he never plays. It's weird.

If Hodgo or Starling are not the answer at hooker, then career reserve grade half Frawley is not it either.

Personally I think Hodgo and Starling are the answer at hooker. Either one or both. Then lets look at our back 5. Then worry about halves. One of those positional brackets is pure bottom 4 material. And it's not our hooker or halves rotation.
This place has gone nuts :lol:

**** me, Matt Frawley at 9

I'd forgotten how badly people lose their minds when we get into deep ruts
I still remember the drop cnk crew last year
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by rayden83 »

BadnMean wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:56 am I'm sorry I just don't understand why Frawley, our reserve grade half who is passed over for S Williams when we need to use a half in FG, who is very much the secondary kicker in reggies is suddebly superior to Starling in kicking (yeah maybe), ball playing or smarts... in a position he never plays. It's weird.

If Hodgo or Starling are not the answer at hooker, then career reserve grade half Frawley is not it either.

Personally I think Hodgo and Starling are the answer at hooker. Either one or both. Then lets look at our back 5. Then worry about halves. One of those positional brackets is pure bottom 4 material. And it's not our hooker or halves rotation.
Im talking purely short term. Reinventing our back 5 will take time, years even. We still have to deal with the present. As far as I see it these are our options.

1. Hodgo returns. The gold standard.

2. Do nothing aka stick solid. Not a bad strategy. Its highly likely we will eventually win, probably this week, and a single win may be all that is needed to jumpstart a return to form. But if we lose, then eventually you have try something different. Its the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

3. Move Jack to FB or centre. If you do that, then you need to thrust Sam W, a career reserve grade half, into the role of game manager, chief organiser etc. We’ve tried that before. Its the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

4. Add more ball playing to our spine. Starling and Aekins clearly have none, and we dont get enough from our current halves, so we have a major ball playing deficit that completely throttles our attack. I only suggested Frawley because unlike Williams he is familiar in the position, and as far as I can tell has a decent short passing and kicking game that could compliment our current halves.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by BadnMean »

I disagree. I think S Williams is pretty well suited to a month or so run in FG while Charnze is out. He can steer a team, his kicking is decent, far better than Frawley. He has a decent passing game and can put an assist in. Solid backup half for mine. Last time he had an extended run of games in a season we won 60% of those. Steering around is kind of what Sammy is ok at. Not moving the needle on his own, but competently moving a footy team from A to B and knowing where C is next.

He's not my solution for a regular FG half, but he's better at his backup job than say Aekins is at his, in my opinion.

I don't know what the reshuffle is but Jack to FB and double Williams in the halves could work as at least GWilly can play more on the left he prefers. Then it's a running 5/8 + a more ballplaying half combo. Both reasonable short kickers, I'd still have Jack do the long boot.

Will be very interesting to see what Ricky comes up with. I doubt it will be that radical but I'm not sure how long his patience with Aekins will last. Could be Simo or Rapa who gets a go there but we may be short wingers too with Semi out lately.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

It's a cliche but it rings true here
If Sam Williams is the answer, you're asking the wrong questions.

He's had a run, he's had two runs, he had run at the Dragons, he went OS and had a run there, then came back and had another run... he's a fine club man, all reports are he's a wonderful bloke. He's not an NRL first grade half.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by gangrenous »

He played 10 games in 2019. That turned out alright.

I think it’s worth considering given how Aekins is going at the back. Mind you Wighton isn’t necessarily going to step up the defence organisation or positioning. At least he’d be dangerous in attack though.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by GreenMachine »

Zero chance Ricky is moving Wighton anywhere...
Aekins will be fullback through thick and thin until CNK returns...
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:56 pm He played 10 games in 2019. That turned out alright.

I think it’s worth considering given how Aekins is going at the back. Mind you Wighton isn’t necessarily going to step up the defence organisation or positioning. At least he’d be dangerous in attack though.
Wighton has changed his body type to suit the position he plays now
I dont think he'd have the ability or motor to play fullback right now any better than Aekins

We'd be weakening the halves to provide no significant upgrade at fullback imo.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by kiwi raider »

yea i think its fair enough to be questioning Aekins position though, he's adding very little, Wighton needs to stay in the halves though
we don't have a lot of options at fullback but i'm not sure Rapana, Simmonson or even Croker(if he's fit enough) could be any worse, i'm not seeing enough effort from Aekins.
Its a shame HSS is injured, i'd say he would have played a few games by now this year and has played a bit of FB from memory
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

kiwi raider wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:32 am yea i think its fair enough to be questioning Aekins position though, he's adding very little, Wighton needs to stay in the halves though
we don't have a lot of options at fullback but i'm not sure Rapana, Simmonson or even Croker(if he's fit enough) could be any worse, i'm not seeing enough effort from Aekins.
Its a shame HSS is injured, i'd say he would have played a few games by now this year and has played a bit of FB from memory
100% his positioning is a nightmare at times... and as i highlighted elsewhere, he's jumping at inexplicable shadows and exacerbating issues in the team.
I've got no issue with his effort, he's trying and he's got plenty to offer as a workhorse out of the back, he's a very good support runner, and he's exactly as i thought he'd be a ball player - that being marginally better than CNK. IMO I'm not seeing a lack of effort.

But he's a back up for a reason. He lacks the ability to anticipate and read the play consistently, and he's not fast enough to compensate for it. But i do think he is the best option we have available sadly.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by zim »

This season aside where do we think Wighton ends up long term? Rest of the career playing 5/8 or making a switch in a few years into the second row?
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by afgtnk »

He's 28 years old now, so closer to the end of his career than the start. Still, he maintains the agility and speed of an outside back. Had it not been for Croker, I think he'd have gone down second to Meninga for us as a centre and would've played 15+ Origins and Tests by now.

At this point I only see him as a running 5/8th from here on in. A lot of his skills and traits would be wasted trying to convert himself into a edge or middle forward, IMO.
Last edited by afgtnk on May 13, 2021, 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by -PJ- »

Bruce Staduim could crumble to the ground...

Jack Wighton is our #6.

He’s Sticks fav.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by zim »

afgtnk wrote: May 13, 2021, 2:21 pm He's 28 years old now, so closer to the end of his career than the start. Still, he maintains the agility and speed of an outside back. Had it not been for Croker, I think he'd have gone down second to Meninga for us as a centre and would've played 15+ Origins and Tests by now.

At this point I only see him as a running 5/8th from here on in. A lot of his skills and traits would be wasted trying to convert himself into a edge or middle forward, IMO.
Yeah I think so too. Though I reckon if he has to he'd make a good fist of it. Could reach that tipping point in the future (31ish) where the game is suddenly too quick. The next lot of rule changes could be really damaging to the older group.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Botman »

It wouldn't completely shock me to see him spend the last 2-3 years as an edge forward, ala late career Luke Lewis

But if i had to bet, id say he'll have another 4-5 years in the NRL, before finishing up in the ESL, all in the 5/8th spot
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by zim »

-PJ- wrote: May 13, 2021, 2:23 pm Bruce Staduim could crumble to the ground...

Jack Wighton is our #6.

He’s Sticks fav.
It wasn't so much a question of moving him because because he was bad at 6. I think he's been great and we've had plenty of evidence he's played well there.
More how his career will develop as he ages.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by zim »

Botman wrote: May 13, 2021, 2:28 pm It wouldn't completely shock me to see him spend the last 2-3 years as an edge forward, ala late career Luke Lewis

But if i had to bet, id say he'll have another 4-5 years in the NRL, before finishing up in the ESL, all in the 5/8th spot
ESL didn't even enter my thinking. That's where I'd be headed at the tail end. A couple of years tearing it up and travelling Europe sounds great to me.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Northern Raider »

afgtnk wrote: May 13, 2021, 2:21 pm He's 28 years old now, so closer to the end of his career than the start. Still, he maintains the agility and speed of an outside back. Had it not been for Croker, I think he'd have gone down second to Meninga for us as a centre and would've played 15+ Origins and Tests by now.

At this point I only see him as a running 5/8th from here on in. A lot of his skills and traits would be wasted trying to convert himself into a edge or middle forward, IMO.
Didn't realise Croker had both centre positions locked down this whole time. :shock:
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by Seiffert82 »

In 2018, before we recruited CNK and moved Wighton to 5/8 I expressed my opinion that Jack would make a great lock. I think that absolutely stands, he'd be elite in that role IMO. Much better than in the centres, where he has been average at best in the Origins.

As far as his kicking game goes, we made the GF in 2019 when Jack was on fire with his kick and chase game. He has all the ability in the world, but is just prone to errors.

Anyway, in a magical land where we had a quality halfback on the books, Wighton to 13 and G Williams to 6 would be unreal. CNK can then just focus on being an elite defense first fullback.

Maybe we can scrape into the finals at the end of the season with
1. CNK
6. Williams
7. Hodgson
13. Wighton
9. Starling

(Not happening, I know.)
Last edited by Seiffert82 on May 13, 2021, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jack Wighton

Post by afgtnk »

I do see an opportunity for him to go back to playing as a fullback/second receiver in attack while still wearing the #6, should be we sign a halves-capable fullback. Hynes probably fits the bill there, as I think he's probably a better ball player than Jack, but doesn't possess the same running threat as he's got less speed and size.

With the extra size he's put on from his time at fullback, while still maintaining much of his speed, he'd be absolutely deadly sweeping around running at the second and third defenders in with pace. As a ball playing fullback he was always right up there with the best, and probably the bread and butter of our 2015-2018 attack.
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