2022 New halfback?

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Begbie »

-TW- wrote: July 9, 2021, 12:19 pm Why would they throw big money at someone they actively sought to replace?



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Because we made a mistake and are big enough to admit it?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Begbie wrote: July 9, 2021, 12:45 pm
-TW- wrote: July 9, 2021, 12:19 pm Why would they throw big money at someone they actively sought to replace?



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Because we made a mistake and are big enough to admit it?
Wait... are you saying that we made a mistake by replacing Sezer?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Begbie »

Raiders_Pat wrote: July 9, 2021, 1:06 pm
Begbie wrote: July 9, 2021, 12:45 pm
-TW- wrote: July 9, 2021, 12:19 pm Why would they throw big money at someone they actively sought to replace?



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Because we made a mistake and are big enough to admit it?
Wait... are you saying that we made a mistake by replacing Sezer?
Yes. Hindsight and all that.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by yeh raiders »

Matt Frawley looked very promising in his rookie season at the Dogs, but his form fell away sharply.

Given we're in need of a halfback, I see no reason why we don't give him a crack and name him at #7 next week. Give him a chance to grow and develop. He played pretty well last night.

In all seriousness, we're not going to do much better on the open market at this point, recruiting for 2022. Any established halfback we recruit won't come here cheap.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

yeh raiders wrote: July 9, 2021, 2:08 pm Matt Frawley looked very promising in his rookie season at the Dogs, but his form fell away sharply.

Given we're in need of a halfback, I see no reason why we don't give him a crack and name him at #7 next week. Give him a chance to grow and develop. He played pretty well last night.

In all seriousness, we're not going to do much better on the open market at this point, recruiting for 2022. Any established halfback we recruit won't come here cheap.
The other part of the Frawley thing is he's 26 years old and there is ALWAYS a place in the 30 man squad for a back up half like him
Sam Williams has filled that role for a long time but he's 30 and it might be time to move him into the next stage of his footy journey... what i'd like to see is an extended run for Frawley so we can really get a good look at what he can and cant do and make a determination on his future with us.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by papabear »

Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 2:19 pm
yeh raiders wrote: July 9, 2021, 2:08 pm Matt Frawley looked very promising in his rookie season at the Dogs, but his form fell away sharply.

Given we're in need of a halfback, I see no reason why we don't give him a crack and name him at #7 next week. Give him a chance to grow and develop. He played pretty well last night.

In all seriousness, we're not going to do much better on the open market at this point, recruiting for 2022. Any established halfback we recruit won't come here cheap.
The other part of the Frawley thing is he's 26 years old and there is ALWAYS a place in the 30 man squad for a back up half like him
Sam Williams has filled that role for a long time but he's 30 and it might be time to move him into the next stage of his footy journey... what i'd like to see is an extended run for Frawley so we can really get a good look at what he can and cant do and make a determination on his future with us.
frawley looks like his body is more aged then williams though.

Look I like frawley and would like him in the 7 over williams - we dont win without his repeat sets last night.

He also isnt getting destroyed of every scrum play like williams.

The thing i dont like is wighton is a left sided player, so is frawley .... what I would like to see is kris and croker actually touching the ball in the opposition 20
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

papabear wrote: July 9, 2021, 3:55 pm The thing i dont like is wighton is a left sided player, so is frawley .... what I would like to see is kris and croker actually touching the ball in the opposition 20
Yeah the left side issue is the major impediment to Frawley taking Williams spot
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by FROG »

Thoughts on keeping them both in the side and sticking jack back at fullback? I happen to think jack is a terrible full back but it may be our best option

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by MrPosh »

Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

papabear wrote: July 9, 2021, 3:55 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 2:19 pm
yeh raiders wrote: July 9, 2021, 2:08 pm Matt Frawley looked very promising in his rookie season at the Dogs, but his form fell away sharply.

Given we're in need of a halfback, I see no reason why we don't give him a crack and name him at #7 next week. Give him a chance to grow and develop. He played pretty well last night.

In all seriousness, we're not going to do much better on the open market at this point, recruiting for 2022. Any established halfback we recruit won't come here cheap.
The other part of the Frawley thing is he's 26 years old and there is ALWAYS a place in the 30 man squad for a back up half like him
Sam Williams has filled that role for a long time but he's 30 and it might be time to move him into the next stage of his footy journey... what i'd like to see is an extended run for Frawley so we can really get a good look at what he can and cant do and make a determination on his future with us.
frawley looks like his body is more aged then williams though.

Look I like frawley and would like him in the 7 over williams - we dont win without his repeat sets last night.

He also isnt getting destroyed of every scrum play like williams.

The thing i dont like is wighton is a left sided player, so is frawley .... what I would like to see is kris and croker actually touching the ball in the opposition 20
Are you sure it's not Frawley's head giving you that impression?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

We don't need Frawley to have an extended run, guys. He's had one, unless you've never watched him play first grade before. He's not good enough. There's a reason why he's our third/fourth string half and behind Williams in the pecking order.

Quality prisoner of the moment stuff.... based on one game and three repeat sets.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Azza »

greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm
MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Season over? G Williams has screwed us good. Numpty.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm
MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:04 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm
MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though). He’s pretty much on the same level as Sam.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:20 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:04 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm
MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though).
It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

UK still OK: Raiders won't write off English recruits amid roster moves

The Raiders won't be put off recruiting out of the UK as they sit tight on a marquee half replacement for George Williams and plot a roster revamp to better suit the six-again rules. Renowned Raiders recruitment guru Peter Mulholland acknowledges Canberra are due to reshape their roster given the age of key players and game-wide six-again shake-up that caught Ricky Stuart's side "on the hop".

Read more: https://thegh.com.au/forum/posting.php? ... a28f99444c
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:26 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:20 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:04 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm
MrPosh wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:37 pm Frawley wasn't good enough for Huddersfield - a mid to low ranking Super League side.

You might argue that's the level some Raiders performances have been this year, but I don't think we should aim for that.
I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though).
It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by dubby »

Time to develop Schneider and give him a shot.

There aren't a whole lot of top level 7s out there at the moment. I'm not convinced in Ash Taylor, and certainly not Milford.

Either we develop one of our youth or give England another shot.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

dubby wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:35 pm Time to develop Schneider and give him a shot.

There aren't a whole lot of top level 7s out there at the moment. I'm not convinced in Ash Taylor, and certainly not Milford.

Either we develop one of our youth or give England another shot.
Also fine with this as long as we're not rushing Schneider due to other circumstances.

Anything but Sam Williams really.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by radicalraider »

Funny how our coach is one of the best ever 7s yet we had to go to England to find one.. why hasn't Ricky developed a 7 in the 7 years he's been there
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by RedRaider »

LimeGreenMachine wrote: July 10, 2021, 11:37 am UK still OK: Raiders won't write off English recruits amid roster moves

The Raiders won't be put off recruiting out of the UK as they sit tight on a marquee half replacement for George Williams and plot a roster revamp to better suit the six-again rules. Renowned Raiders recruitment guru Peter Mulholland acknowledges Canberra are due to reshape their roster given the age of key players and game-wide six-again shake-up that caught Ricky Stuart's side "on the hop".

Read more: https://thegh.com.au/forum/posting.php? ... a28f99444c
I don't care where in the world the next Raiders 7 comes from as long as we keep looking. Sticky came across from Rugby Union and they have a different set of skills (being picked up by League 7s from Sticky's lead). Spiral passing being one. So many League developed 7's pass the ball end over end making it harder for the receiver. Long kicking game under pressure from the back of a ruck/maul or the drop kick to restart play. Get someone with the skills and develop the other features needed later eg League 7s are better defensively (mostly) and have to make more one on one tackles. Someone like Ryan Lonergan from the Brumbies could be handy.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by bonehead »

radicalraider wrote:Funny how our coach is one of the best ever 7s yet we had to go to England to find one.. why hasn't Ricky developed a 7 in the 7 years he's been there
he's never improved or developed a halfback in his entire coaching career

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Northern Raider »

bonehead wrote: July 10, 2021, 2:48 pm
radicalraider wrote:Funny how our coach is one of the best ever 7s yet we had to go to England to find one.. why hasn't Ricky developed a 7 in the 7 years he's been there
he's never improved or developed a halfback in his entire coaching career

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Northern Raider wrote:
bonehead wrote: July 10, 2021, 2:48 pm
radicalraider wrote:Funny how our coach is one of the best ever 7s yet we had to go to England to find one.. why hasn't Ricky developed a 7 in the 7 years he's been there
he's never improved or developed a halfback in his entire coaching career

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:51 pm
dubby wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:35 pm Time to develop Schneider and give him a shot.

There aren't a whole lot of top level 7s out there at the moment. I'm not convinced in Ash Taylor, and certainly not Milford.

Either we develop one of our youth or give England another shot.
Also fine with this as long as we're not rushing Schneider due to other circumstances.

Anything but Sam Williams really.
100% agree, if the coaches think Schneider can handle FG, get him in there... if that's not what they think is best for him, Frawley worth a shot.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:23 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:26 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:20 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:04 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 5:47 pm

I'm with Mr Posh. We have seen what Frawley is able to do at NRL level over quite a period at the Bulldogs. It is why he went to England to start with. Love Sam Williams, but he's not going to be any thing other than a (very good) back up player. Nor is Frawley. And now we've basically missed any decent options on the halfback market for 2022.
Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though).
It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

Williams got three forced line drop outs, Frawley three. Williams also scored a double and produced a try assist (none for Frawley). Easily the equal of or better than Frawley on Thursday night. Williams five missed tackles, Frawley two, is what people are concerned with. But overall, Sam was the better player for mine.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:13 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:23 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:26 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:20 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:04 pm

Im not advocating for him to be anything but filling the Sam Williams role.
Given our situation, i'd like to see more of him in FG this year so we know what he's capable of at this level.

We know what Sam Williams give us in this role and it has been mostly good but the last month of footy has been frankly horrendous for Sam. It might be time for us to consider if Matt Frawley isnt a better back up than Sam, and to know what we might need to give him more than 1 game.
We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though).
It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
3 each between Williams and Frawley according to NRL.com. That gives Williams a grand total of 4 across his 5 matches this season, so we have a decent sample that he struggles to build pressure against better teams. It's not as if we haven't been on top for 20-30 minutes in most of those games too.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Frawley also kicked two balls dead, relieving the pressure on the opposition.

Any other half would be pasted for that, tbh - especially Williams.
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afgtnk
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:59 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:13 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:23 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:26 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:20 pm

We don’t really need to. We have had NSW Cup for that this year (not the next couple of weeks though).
It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
3 each between Williams and Frawley according to NRL.com. That gives Williams a grand total of 4 across his 5 matches this season, so we have a decent sample that he struggles to build pressure against better teams. It's not as if we haven't been on top for 20-30 minutes in most of those games too.
You seem to be missing what I'm saying.

It's three FDO's, but four repeat sets. Williams forced four repeat sets - the fourth being the grubber set for the in goal that Manly played at. There's a difference, but same outcome (better actually).
Last edited by afgtnk on July 10, 2021, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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greeneyed
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

However, Thursday night was probably the first game of the season where the instructions were to try to force line drop outs. Usually the instructions are… whatever you do, don’t give away a seven tackle set.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

I love that we're still doing that thing where a halfback can put a woeful bomb that falls well short of where it should be and because some dopey idiot lets it hit them in the head, and the ball bounces the right way, we pretend he's created a try :lol:

It's the old McCrone falcon ball try assist. Long may it reign.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:51 pm Williams got three forced line drop outs, Frawley three. Williams also scored a double and produced a try assist (none for Frawley). Easily the equal of or better than Frawley on Thursday night. Williams five missed tackles, Frawley two, is what people are concerned with. But overall, Sam was the better player for mine.
And we are all familiar with Sam's limitations, there is literally nothing to lose by giving someone who showed some promise a chance. As you know GE, not all missed tackles are equal. Sam was shown up again on the defensive end on Thursday.

There is a quote about insanity that's relevant here.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:00 pm Frawley also kicked two balls dead, relieving the pressure on the opposition.
True. No kick errors for Sam.
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