2022 New halfback?

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BadnMean
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by BadnMean »

afgtnk wrote: July 5, 2021, 8:42 pm

You must be watching a different game, BnM. Taylor better than Brooks defensively? Moses considered a good defensive half, up there with George Williams?

Definitely news to me - unless you're referring to circa 2016 Luke Brooks, and the other half at the Eels.

You're one of the big stats guys on here. Here you go, from about a week or two ago:

afgtnk wrote: June 27, 2021, 5:53 pm Brooks

16.46 tackles per game
0.14 missed tackles to tackles made ratio
82% efficiency
2.2 one on one tackles per game

Taylor

14 tackles per game
0.25 missed tackles to tackles made ratio
76% efficiency
1 one on one tackle per game

Eye: Brooks is far better. Taylor is basically what Brooks used to be.... still.
I do like some stats Afghwilly, that's true. Moses only has about 4 linebreak causes and 4 try causes for the season. That's some pretty decent defending- yeah good team, well protected but it's clear he can stand up ok when targetted now and he's just got the advantage of at least being a bit bigger than Taylor and Brooks (whose heights are inflated on profiles).

As for Taylor v Brooks. I do agree Brooks is a better defender now than given credit for. Missed tackles looks like Brooks has the edge, if you do a similar breakdown for try causes and line break causes, Taylor (5 in 10 games both categories at 0.5) comes out a clear winner over Brooks at 16 games 9 try causes for 0.56 and 11 lb causes for 0.68 per game).

So there's some other stats I actually did check and consider before posting the original.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by BadnMean »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 5, 2021, 9:02 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 5, 2021, 8:15 pm
bonehead wrote: July 5, 2021, 4:34 pm At the right price, Ash Taylor has been decent this season

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Yeah maybe.

Depends if he is willing to play for 500k instead of nearer to his current million.

His defence is probably better than guys like Brooks or Nikorima (or Reynolds for that matter) but not quite as good as good defensive halves like Moses or GWilly.

There was a time a few years ago he was a main kicker and he'd come up with as many forced drop outs as any other half- honestly not got a read on his long kicking game really but GC kicked us off the park on Saturday. He had a few try assists in him too. I wouldn't say he was gamebreaker but he certainly more than say a Sezer. He'd contribute as many assists as someone like GWilly in a season, but be less of a running threat himself.

It would be better than SWilly and punting on Schneider. But it'd have to be something like 450/500k + second year at 550/600k in the clubs favour option. At his best he offers more than Sezer but just slightly less than Gwilly. He is different to GWilly though and closer to the steadying, directing half we could use.
He was getting 20+ assists, he was better than GWilly, comfortably. Teams weren't *completely* mad to throw money at him, they just paid too much and the market was hot for halfbacks at the time
Yeah he did have some pretty good years around '17, '18 and may have burst on the scene as a good rookie year before that too. I tried to look at more of an average output including some of his so so years. But at his best yes, produced as many assists as almost anyone (probably not the top 1 or 2 halves in any year but he would have been up in the top 4 top 5 I'd guess).
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by BadnMean »

Coastalraider wrote: July 5, 2021, 8:39 pm Correct me
If I’m wrong, but Hasnt Taylor spent his career playing left side? And BROOKS has spent at least a chunk of his career on the right?
Yeah maybe does prefer it. I remembered him as popping up on both sides but I don't watch an awful lot of GC games. Generally just if they play us or Parra and I'm at the in-laws.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Northern Raider »

Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by yeh raiders »

Well that’s it isn’t it... when it comes to halfbacks these days, you either pay close to a million bucks for an elite one or you pay half that for someone with “potential”, someone who “is actually a 5/8”, someone’s who’s inconsistent and/or can’t defend.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by papabear »

Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...

that all said i would prefer for us to take a punt on someone younger who hasnt been given much of a go where ever they are at the moment.
Last edited by papabear on July 6, 2021, 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Matt »

yeh raiders wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am Well that’s it isn’t it... when it comes to halfbacks these days, you either pay close to a million bucks for an elite one or you pay half that for someone with “potential”, someone who “is actually a 5/8”, someone’s who’s inconsistent and/or can’t defend.
Thats the market, yes.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Matt »

papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...
I disagree. Id edge it to Brooks. Taylor has off field demons and a longer list of previous injuries. If they are the same price I'm going Brooks.

However, we are still talking "degrees of bad" rather than who is better.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raider47 »

Are there any promising halves who are stuck behind established players at their respective clubs? Ala CNK when we brought him over from NZ?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Coastalraider »

I have no knowledge, but Id be looking at the Panthers system. Theres no room for NSW cup/SG halves to get a solid crack at first grade for at least the next 5 years you would think with Cleary and Luai in the way.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Northern Raider »

Matt wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:58 am
papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...
I disagree. Id edge it to Brooks. Taylor has off field demons and a longer list of previous injuries. If they are the same price I'm going Brooks.

However, we are still talking "degrees of bad" rather than who is better.
I'd take Taylor over Brooks mainly because one is available and the other isn't. If we're going to talk about contracted players as options then we should include Cleary, Hughes, Walker etc in the conversation. Those guys are worth an investment. How about Adam Reynolds? We can trade Josh Hodgson to the Broncos and get him.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Northern Raider »

Coastalraider wrote: July 6, 2021, 10:07 am I have no knowledge, but Id be looking at the Panthers system. Theres no room for NSW cup/SG halves to get a solid crack at first grade for at least the next 5 years you would think with Cleary and Luai in the way.
Kurt Falls is their no7 for NSW Cup. Was playing park footy last year. Earned a development contract this year. 24 years old so not exactly young. Might see him get a run in 1st grade while Cleary is out if they want to keep Burton in the centres.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

With Brooks, you'd be looking at matching his current contract value at the least, which is around $600k. With Taylor, he'd be lucky to be getting $500k... there is a lack of interest in the market for his services. I think you would potentially save $100-200k a year with Taylor over Brooks so it would be down to whether you believe Brooks is worth that extra chunk. Taylor is more of a gamble because his floor is lower but his ceiling is higher. I still think if Ricky had a chat to Milford and determined that he could get his head back in the game, that's the gamble I'd be taking over Taylor if the price was right (they are a similar age and Milford has shown more consistency at a high level in his career).
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I don't think we'll be taking a gamble on this one though. We'll go with a conservative approach as evidenced by our interest in Townsend...
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Noobs »

''I still think if Ricky had a chat to Milford and determined that he could get his head back in the game... ''
'
Milford is a running 5/8. We have one of those (when he's on song). We need an organising halfback.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Timbo »

Noobs wrote: July 6, 2021, 2:31 pm ''I still think if Ricky had a chat to Milford and determined that he could get his head back in the game... ''
'
Milford is a running 5/8. We have one of those (when he's on song). We need an organising halfback.
Milford would only be worth anything if we got him ultra-fit over Christmas and used him as a ball-playing fullback.

The odds of Tony Milford putting down the fork are less than zero though, so he’s not worth it.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Noobs wrote: July 6, 2021, 2:31 pm ''I still think if Ricky had a chat to Milford and determined that he could get his head back in the game... ''
'
Milford is a running 5/8. We have one of those (when he's on song). We need an organising halfback.
I'd agree with you if Starling is our main hooker next year but I just don't think it's a necessity. The main thing we need as far as a half goes is somebody who can be trusted to take on the bulk of the kicking as we can't trust Jack to do that. Organising halves are rare and not really available on the market at the moment. The next best option is to bring in somebody who could at least provide some threat on attack that could turn in to points for us. We've got an organising back up half in Sam Williams - I would rather take guys who are seen more as running 5/8s like Milford, Taylor or Norman over Williams any day.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by mongoose »

How old is James Maloney now?

Taylor is a big gamble, though so is Milford. They are kind of 2 peas in a pod... If Brooks was available I think he would be a better fit with our current spine. Even the maligned Townsend I think we could get value out of... I'd take Nikorima too if he's on the market.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Ultima »

Knowing our current recruitment strategy we will sign up Vaughan to take Whiteheads spot and make Whitehead our half...
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by badsall1 »

papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...

that all said i would prefer for us to take a punt on someone younger who hasnt been given much of a go where ever they are at the moment.
Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by badsall1 »

papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...

that all said i would prefer for us to take a punt on someone younger who hasnt been given much of a go where ever they are at the moment.
Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm
papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...

that all said i would prefer for us to take a punt on someone younger who hasnt been given much of a go where ever they are at the moment.
Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Haha. Nice try Connor. You almost had me.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Matt wrote:
papabear wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:53 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 6, 2021, 9:05 am Ash Taylor gets plenty of shade, mainly because his output has been nowhere near his $1m price tag. While not an elite half he still has NRL level talent and at 26 he's got scope to improve. Being realistic he's the best option out of a very limited selection.

Titans don't want him and doesn't appear to be a big list or suitors for his contract. Doubt we'll be in any bidding war.
I agree with this - if you can get him pretty cheap you go ash taylor over luke brooks...
I disagree. Id edge it to Brooks. Taylor has off field demons and a longer list of previous injuries. If they are the same price I'm going Brooks.

However, we are still talking "degrees of bad" rather than who is better.
Agreed. At the end of the day, whether you agree with it or not, Brooks has won a Dally M while playing in a horrendous team. I don't really see too many aspects of Taylors game that are superior to Brooks.

I'd also punt on Milford to get a complete refresh in the halves.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

Re: Taylor vs Brooks
Id take the punt on the one comes cheapest and is quickest to accept a 1 year deal with 1 year in our favour.
And i'd be perfectly fine if both decided that's not the deal for them.

All things being equal on the contract and salaries, yeah i'd slightly favour Brooks because he's probably a bit more reliable in terms of availability
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Canberra Milk »

badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Look me in the eye and tell me Sam Williams is a better option than Ash Taylor. A one year deal and it won't affect any juniors recruiting. If we sign nobody for 1/6/7 we are asking for trouble

Connor Watson is a 9/13 these days, forget him
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by badsall1 »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 6, 2021, 8:19 pm
badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Look me in the eye and tell me Sam Williams is a better option than Ash Taylor. A one year deal and it won't affect any juniors recruiting. If we sign nobody for 1/6/7 we are asking for trouble

Connor Watson is a 9/13 these days, forget him
What I mean is they are both terrible options. At least Connor can run the ball with speed. And doesn't put his head down and go missing when things are tough. I'd prefer milf but I don't think we will even try to pursue him.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by badsall1 »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 6, 2021, 8:19 pm
badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Look me in the eye and tell me Sam Williams is a better option than Ash Taylor. A one year deal and it won't affect any juniors recruiting. If we sign nobody for 1/6/7 we are asking for trouble

Connor Watson is a 9/13 these days, forget him
What I mean is they are both terrible options. At least Connor can run the ball with speed. And doesn't put his head down and go missing when things are tough. I'd prefer milf but I don't think we will even try to pursue him.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by SeeBee101 »

badsall1 wrote:
Canberra Milk wrote: July 6, 2021, 8:19 pm
badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Look me in the eye and tell me Sam Williams is a better option than Ash Taylor. A one year deal and it won't affect any juniors recruiting. If we sign nobody for 1/6/7 we are asking for trouble

Connor Watson is a 9/13 these days, forget him
What I mean is they are both terrible options. At least Connor can run the ball with speed. And doesn't put his head down and go missing when things are tough. I'd prefer milf but I don't think we will even try to pursue him.
Why would we want a player who can run the ball with speed when that’s that Wighton is meant to be doing…. We need an organising half and Taylor is a way better option that keeping Williams…


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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by badsall1 »

SeeBee101 wrote: July 6, 2021, 10:14 pm
badsall1 wrote:
Canberra Milk wrote: July 6, 2021, 8:19 pm
badsall1 wrote: July 6, 2021, 5:47 pm Under no circumstances would you take a gamble on a plodder like Taylor. If the game gets tough he crumbles. I'd go hard for Connor Watson or milf. Both have a attacking threat and have speed. Ash Taylor's barely an improvement of Williams.
Look me in the eye and tell me Sam Williams is a better option than Ash Taylor. A one year deal and it won't affect any juniors recruiting. If we sign nobody for 1/6/7 we are asking for trouble

Connor Watson is a 9/13 these days, forget him
What I mean is they are both terrible options. At least Connor can run the ball with speed. And doesn't put his head down and go missing when things are tough. I'd prefer milf but I don't think we will even try to pursue him.
Why would we want a player who can run the ball with speed when that’s that Wighton is meant to be doing…. We need an organising half and Taylor is a way better option that keeping Williams…


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If you think Taylor's the solution you should join the current current recruitment team for the raiders. You'd fit in well. Signing slow plodders and maintain a **** roster for years to come. Williams should be let go immediately he's not a first grade player. Neither are a option.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Neither is Connor Watson! Come on. Can we all just agree we're completely in the **** re: halfback
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

It's VERY spicy to be like "LOL, your ideas of halfback are so **** you should join the Raiders recruitment team" and also be like "I would go hard for Connor Watson"
:lol:
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by SeeBee101 »

Botman wrote:It's VERY spicy to be like "LOL, your ideas of halfback are so **** you should join the Raiders recruitment team" and also be like "I would go hard for Connor Watson"
:lol:
I know right… we are **** either way. I’m just sure as **** we don’t need a hooker/lock as a halfback and I’d rather not watch the **** show that is Williams next year. If the Raiders play it right and only sign one of the remaining halfbacks on the market for two years or less, it should give us time to see what’s coming through and plan accordingly..


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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by bonehead »

Brooks or Taylor at roughly $500k for a 1 + 1 would be better than our current options, nobody that I've seen has said either are the messiah but they are decent options.
Connor Watson is such a utility, he's had every chance to nail down the 6 jersey at the knights but has been shuffled all over the place as he's not a starting anything, he's a good footballer and can be a matchwinner but he's not a starting 7 which we currently need.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by deanoman »

Why don’t we go hard for Aidan Sezer, I know the terms we parted weren’t great but he’s a great player, took us to a grand final and best half we have had in years.

I’m sure a big offer and he can move on to what ever happen at the end.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by -TW- »

Why would they throw big money at someone they actively sought to replace?



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