2022 New halfback?

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Roger Kenworthy
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:01 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:59 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:13 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:23 pm
Botman wrote: July 9, 2021, 7:26 pm

It's a different level of competition, and aside from that based on performance last night, and the performance of Sam Williams in FG this year, he's earned the chance to get more game time.

What's the worst that happens? Frawley **** stinks? Well great, welcome to the last month of Sam Williams football.

I understand Sam Williams is a coaches pet and is seamingly earmarked for a role with the club after he has retires but surely we've donated to his bank account that there is enough good will to overcome any hard feelings about that move.
Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
3 each between Williams and Frawley according to NRL.com. That gives Williams a grand total of 4 across his 5 matches this season, so we have a decent sample that he struggles to build pressure against better teams. It's not as if we haven't been on top for 20-30 minutes in most of those games too.
You seem to be missing what I'm saying.

It's three FDO's, but four repeat sets. Williams forced four repeat sets - the fourth being the grubber set for the in goal that Manly played at. There's a difference, but same outcome (better actually).
Either way we know what Williams does against quality opposition. Not much. Frawley probably has a similar output but worth a roll of the dice IMO, nothing to lose as play it safe Williams won't get us into the 8 with our remaining draw.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:03 pm I love that we're still doing that thing where a halfback can put a woeful bomb that falls well short of where it should be and because some dopey idiot lets it hit them in the head, and the ball bounces the right way, we pretend he's created a try :lol:

It's the old McCrone falcon ball try assist. Long may it reign.
Don't forget the little chips Williams periodically puts on a platter for the opposition back 3 that count as set completions and kicking metres but are horrible plays.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:05 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:01 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:59 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:13 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 12:23 pm

Frawley did more in one match to help us build pressure than I've seen Williams do in the last month, granted against poor quality opposition. I can't see any compelling reason why you wouldn't give him first shot at partnering Wighton after Thursday night. If players were written off based on their early career form where would Damien Cook be?
Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
3 each between Williams and Frawley according to NRL.com. That gives Williams a grand total of 4 across his 5 matches this season, so we have a decent sample that he struggles to build pressure against better teams. It's not as if we haven't been on top for 20-30 minutes in most of those games too.
You seem to be missing what I'm saying.

It's three FDO's, but four repeat sets. Williams forced four repeat sets - the fourth being the grubber set for the in goal that Manly played at. There's a difference, but same outcome (better actually).
Either way we know what Williams does against quality opposition. Not much. Frawley probably has a similar output but worth a roll of the dice IMO, nothing to lose as play it safe Williams won't get us into the 8 with our remaining draw.
How's he worth a roll of the dice, when he's proven he's not better than Williams?

I don't get this line of thinking. We always have something to lose. Three FDO's in a game doesn't make Frawley a better player.... especially when Williams has gone a done a similar thing, plus more.

This is prisoner of the moment, new guy in town, grass is greener stuff. It's the same kind of thinking that has people calling for Schneider, when he's currently the worst of the four.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:11 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:05 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:01 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:59 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 7:13 pm

Sam Williams literally got us four repeat sets against the Sea Eagles. Four.

I mean I get that people are frustrated and want new blood, but **** come on :lol:

It's denialism to the extreme.
3 each between Williams and Frawley according to NRL.com. That gives Williams a grand total of 4 across his 5 matches this season, so we have a decent sample that he struggles to build pressure against better teams. It's not as if we haven't been on top for 20-30 minutes in most of those games too.
You seem to be missing what I'm saying.

It's three FDO's, but four repeat sets. Williams forced four repeat sets - the fourth being the grubber set for the in goal that Manly played at. There's a difference, but same outcome (better actually).
Either way we know what Williams does against quality opposition. Not much. Frawley probably has a similar output but worth a roll of the dice IMO, nothing to lose as play it safe Williams won't get us into the 8 with our remaining draw.
How's he worth a roll of the dice, when he's proven he's not better than Williams?

I don't get this line of thinking. We always have something to lose. Three FDO's in a game doesn't make Frawley a better player.... especially when Williams has gone a done a similar thing, plus more.

This is prisoner of the moment, new guy in town, grass is greener stuff. It's the same kind of thinking that has people calling for Schneider, when he's currently the worst of the four.
I don't think we have a conclusive answer on who is the better option. Frawley showed composure which I was a fan of, that may unravel if he's selected next week and we're under the pump. I don't mind sticking with the safe option in many instances, but the safe option here is a guy who's going to deliver us to a 10th or 11th finish.

He also looks like a pretty decent upgrade defensively. Sam Williams is an absolute liability on that end, he's regressed significantly the last couple of years from an already poor baseline.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

It is the grass is greener stuff, but the thing you're missing is we're not sitting here in a lush feild of beautiful green grass

With Sam Williams, we're a boggy, brown marsh with no signs of life whatsoever.

What is the worse that happens? We give Frawley or Schneider a shot and they absolutely **** suck... who cares? Sam Williams **** sucks! :lol:
If they're THAT bad we can always go back to Sam, he's not going anywhere... There is little to be gained from this season, and watching the ship go down under the (not so) steady hands of Sam Williams does literally nothing for us, we learn nothing new, there is nothing we can take from that to help us going forward, where as there is things to learn from Schneider or Frawley

It's not as if we're dropping a highly productive player who positively contributes to winning football games with this move. We're dropping Sam Williams. This is not dropping Tapine for Mooney just to get a look at the guy... It's Sam Williams.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by greeneyed »

We don’t need a look at what Matt Frawley can do in first grade. We know. It’s not much different to what Sam Williams can do. Williams is a bit better. If we want a look at what a player can do in first grade you bring in Schneider.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Old School Green »

greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2021, 9:25 pm We don’t need a look at what Matt Frawley can do in first grade. We know. It’s not much different to what Sam Williams can do. Williams is a bit better. If we want a look at what a player can do in first grade you bring in Schneider.
Agree GE. None are the answer next year and if we have to end up going with one or all of them, it will be stop gap only you would think.
Hoping something comes up in the next month or so surely we’re not sitting idle.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

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To re-iterate what had been said - we don't need to give Frawley a go, because he's proven what he can do already. Hint: it's less than Williams.

As for Schneider - he isn't even above Frawley at the moment. Go watch reserve grade when they're both there if you think he is. I don't know what's possessing people to think that a player, who isn't better than the guy designated to be our fourth choice half this season, should somehow be thrown into firsts.

Oh, wait. I probably do know - desperation and helplessness. Throw in a good old dose of anti-Williams agenda too, that sees a host of posters completely unable to credit him for anything.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: July 10, 2021, 8:27 pm It is the grass is greener stuff, but the thing you're missing is we're not sitting here in a lush feild of beautiful green grass

With Sam Williams, we're a boggy, brown marsh with no signs of life whatsoever.

What is the worse that happens? We give Frawley or Schneider a shot and they absolutely **** suck... who cares? Sam Williams **** sucks! :lol:
If they're THAT bad we can always go back to Sam, he's not going anywhere... There is little to be gained from this season, and watching the ship go down under the (not so) steady hands of Sam Williams does literally nothing for us, we learn nothing new, there is nothing we can take from that to help us going forward, where as there is things to learn from Schneider or Frawley

It's not as if we're dropping a highly productive player who positively contributes to winning football games with this move. We're dropping Sam Williams. This is not dropping Tapine for Mooney just to get a look at the guy... It's Sam Williams.
Couldn’t agree with you more. It’s an absolute no brainer.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

I love that whenever someone has a different opinion here guys like Afjfjsa throw out the “agenda”
Like there is some nefarious plot being hatched the dark web to take down Sam Williams :lol:

There is no agenda
What we have is 3 players who are quite simply not NRL FG quality, and reasonable minds can differ on which of those 3 objectively bad options is the best for us given the current circumstances

The reasons people have stated they’d prefer Frawley or Schneider are perfectly valid and reasonable. There is no agenda.
Sam Williams isnt important or good enough to warrant an agenda :lol:
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by gerg »

Botman wrote:I love that whenever someone has a different opinion here guys like Afjfjsa throw out the “agenda”
Like there is some nefarious plot being hatched the dark web to take down Sam Williams Image

There is no agenda
What we have is 3 players who are quite simply not NRL FG quality, and reasonable minds can differ on which of those 3 objectively bad options is the best for us given the current circumstances

The reasons people have stated they’d prefer Frawley or Schneider are perfectly valid and reasonable. There is no agenda.
Sam Williams isnt important or good enough to warrant an agenda Image
C'mon mate. If you regurgitate the exact same opinion or script a thousand times, it is bound to change the opinion of those with differing views.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Botman wrote: July 11, 2021, 11:39 am I love that whenever someone has a different opinion here guys like Afjfjsa throw out the “agenda”
Like there is some nefarious plot being hatched the dark web to take down Sam Williams :lol:

There is no agenda
What we have is 3 players who are quite simply not NRL FG quality, and reasonable minds can differ on which of those 3 objectively bad options is the best for us given the current circumstances

The reasons people have stated they’d prefer Frawley or Schneider are perfectly valid and reasonable. There is no agenda.
Sam Williams isnt important or good enough to warrant an agenda :lol:
Lol. It's definitely not just a different opinion. You've been at the guy basically since he debuted. We've been through this before - many times.

An agenda is when a guy scores two tries off his own back, forces four repeat sets, and one try assist gets nothing but criticism for his contribution to the game, while the guy who forces three repeat sets (kicking two dead) and does not much else at all, whether it as per the eye or the numbers, is claimed to have 'controlled the game'.

That agenda has also suggested that Frawley now play ahead of Williams based off one game and three repeat sets, despite Frawley's abilities being a known quantity, and that quantity being clearly inferior to Williams'.

I should re-iterate that Sam Williams absolutely cannot be a long term option for our club, and I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if he left - provided we signed a suitable replacement. Based on our current stocks we don't really have one. Frawley isn't good enough to be the first backup half for the Dogs, let alone here, and Schneider looks to be wishful thinking at this point. If you think it can't get worse than Sam Williams, to paraphrase some of the lines I've seen that's been run, then I assure you it can.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Coastalraider »

Sammy and Frawley faced the most static defence I have seen since, well most out our own defensive sets this year. I can’t remember any of our halves having so little pressure put on them at any point of the match… yes the kicks were good, with zero pressure. Yes, they found some gaps…. With zero pressure. There was nothing shown in the match that would scare another first grade team. Nothing.

I’m happy for the 2 points, but let’s face it, all halves look good with that much space and time allowed.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: July 11, 2021, 11:39 am I love that whenever someone has a different opinion here guys like Afjfjsa throw out the “agenda”
Like there is some nefarious plot being hatched the dark web to take down Sam Williams :lol:

There is no agenda
What we have is 3 players who are quite simply not NRL FG quality, and reasonable minds can differ on which of those 3 objectively bad options is the best for us given the current circumstances

The reasons people have stated they’d prefer Frawley or Schneider are perfectly valid and reasonable. There is no agenda.
Sam Williams isnt important or good enough to warrant an agenda :lol:
Agree. I supported Williams being selected ahead of Sezer in 2019, and felt Sezer benefited from that as he seemed to pick up on playing within his limitations. Gone were the miracle passes and kicks into legs.

In general I've been supportive of Williams over the years. At this stage of his career he just doesn't bring enough in attack against elite sides to outweight his defensive issues. We've still got to play the Storm, Roosters, Sea Eagles and Eels. Sammy W won't get it done against that quality of opposition. It's doubtful the other options will either but there really is nothing to lose.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

afgtnk wrote: July 11, 2021, 12:35 pm
Botman wrote: July 11, 2021, 11:39 am I love that whenever someone has a different opinion here guys like Afjfjsa throw out the “agenda”
Like there is some nefarious plot being hatched the dark web to take down Sam Williams :lol:

There is no agenda
What we have is 3 players who are quite simply not NRL FG quality, and reasonable minds can differ on which of those 3 objectively bad options is the best for us given the current circumstances

The reasons people have stated they’d prefer Frawley or Schneider are perfectly valid and reasonable. There is no agenda.
Sam Williams isnt important or good enough to warrant an agenda :lol:
Lol. It's definitely not just a different opinion. You've been at the guy basically since he debuted. We've been through this before - many times.

An agenda is when a guy scores two tries off his own back, forces four repeat sets, and one try assist gets nothing but criticism for his contribution to the game, while the guy who forces three repeat sets (kicking two dead) and does not much else at all, whether it as per the eye or the numbers, is claimed to have 'controlled the game'.

That agenda has also suggested that Frawley now play ahead of Williams based off one game and three repeat sets, despite Frawley's abilities being a known quantity, and that quantity being clearly inferior to Williams'.

I should re-iterate that Sam Williams absolutely cannot be a long term option for our club, and I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if he left - provided we signed a suitable replacement. Based on our current stocks we don't really have one. Frawley isn't good enough to be the first backup half for the Dogs, let alone here, and Schneider looks to be wishful thinking at this point. If you think it can't get worse than Sam Williams, to paraphrase some of the lines I've seen that's been run, then I assure you it can.
What about the defence? Williams would have been a 4th ranked half at the Dogs this year also IMO.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Am I reading what I think I'm reading about agendas against particular players?

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 11, 2021, 3:35 pm Am I reading what I think I'm reading about agendas against particular players? Image

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The irony has not been lost on me either :lol:
But we'll discuss in greater details at this Thursday's Agenda Meeting.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by papabear »

Lachlan Lewis for me.

He would come cheap, he is young.

He has a good short kicking game.

He is a fierce competitor - was chasing the easts half whom he outplayed in the dieing seconds who ran the length backwards to run down the clock.

A lot of his game needs a bit of polish but for his first game all year he looked more improved and tbh he has improved year in year out.

His talent has been hidden behind bad teams and bad coaching…
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Northern Raider »

At fear of repeating myself. If we want to upgrade our squad I wouldn't be looking at players that aren't good enough for the worst teams in the comp.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Botman »

Lachlan Lewis might be one of the worst players to ever see 20+ games
He's really bad.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah, I'm all for finding value in great players hidden in bad teams (rather than average players who can shine in great teams), but I'm not sure Lachlan Lewis fits the bill.

At least a guy like Milford has taken his team to a grand final, or Brooks has won a Dally M halfback award. Taylor has obviously demonstrated some genuine ability to execute a gameplan when his mental health is in order. I haven't seen that in Lewis at this stage.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Green Blogger »

Things have been so quiet on the halfback front despite there being several mid tier players available - there are zero rumours - that I can't help but think we are shopping in the UK again.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by papabear »

afgtnk wrote: July 10, 2021, 10:41 pm To re-iterate what had been said - we don't need to give Frawley a go, because he's proven what he can do already. Hint: it's less than Williams.

As for Schneider - he isn't even above Frawley at the moment. Go watch reserve grade when they're both there if you think he is. I don't know what's possessing people to think that a player, who isn't better than the guy designated to be our fourth choice half this season, should somehow be thrown into firsts.

Oh, wait. I probably do know - desperation and helplessness. Throw in a good old dose of anti-Williams agenda too, that sees a host of posters completely unable to credit him for anything.
I am now questioning whether you were anti sezer or pro williams - sort of like a chicken and egg situation …
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by BJ »

Botman wrote:Lachlan Lewis might be one of the worst players to ever see 20+ games
He's really bad.
And when you say “one of the worst” you’re talking towards the bottom of a very select few halves.

It’s an injustice to Plodders to put him amongst other plodders.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

BJ wrote: July 13, 2021, 1:15 pm
Botman wrote:Lachlan Lewis might be one of the worst players to ever see 20+ games
He's really bad.
And when you say “one of the worst” you’re talking towards the bottom of a very select few halves.

It’s an injustice to Plodders to put him amongst other plodders.
All he's missing is a history of try assists via teammates heads.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Azza »

23 pages of drivel. Still, beats the Carney re-signing and Orfarce threads.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Matt »

Our favourite Tiger is in the media again.
A former Tiger too... who thinks he is a halfback.
An a precious former Raider also on the move.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... c61f8e1778
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Matt »

The man behind Raiders-Tigers swap deal

THE Wests Tigers official who spit-balled the Luke Brooks and Moses Mbye swap deal with Raiders guns Jack Wighton and Josh Hodgson was CEO Justin Pascoe.

In fairness to Pascoe the Canberra Raiders had signalled an interest in trying to get Brooks to the national capital for next year as the Green Machine continue their search for a halfback.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 0969d221d1

There is uncertainty surrounding the future of halfback Luke Brooks. He is contracted at the Tigers until 2023 but Fox League’s James Hooper has linked the Tigers halfback to both Cronulla and Canberra in recent weeks. Maguire told 2GB last week in no uncertain terms that Brooks will be at the club next year.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 202bb68675

Conflicting reports on the Fox this morning. But one said we definitely enquired as to Brooks.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by afgtnk »

Going by that, the Tigers don't have a **** clue what they're doing. Pascoe trying to get those trades is laughable, but he's just trying to set the terms as high as he can for his club.

Three into two doesn't go - they seem to be sold on Douiehi for the long term, and Hastings is incoming. Douiehi's no fullback, and I can't see him any more than a temporary centre. He doesn't have the athleticism for either position, and his ability with the ball in hand is wasted.

250-300k freight paid for us would be a good deal.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

I don’t know. Fair go to Pascoe for having a crack. Maybe he was just thinking “The worst they’ll say is no, what’s the harm in asking?”

What’s that expression “Aim for the moon, you might just land on a star.” Had Donny turned around and said yes, Pascoe would have praised for pulling off the biggest coup ever.

He would never have known if he never asked. I like this guy.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Seiffert82 »

That story being leaked makes them look like idiots.

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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Wiki Special »

Not sure of exact costs of both players but seeing how bare the halfback market is do you think the Tigers and Raiders would benefit from a direct Brooks/Scott swap? Us paying all of Scott's wage, them paying all of Brooks?
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Wiki Special wrote: July 24, 2021, 12:24 pm Not sure of exact costs of both players but seeing how bare the halfback market is do you think the Tigers and Raiders would benefit from a direct Brooks/Scott swap? Us paying all of Scott's wage, them paying all of Brooks?
They're just getting rid of BJ. Why would they want a couple more years of deadweight at centre and to pay extras for the honour(I reckon the gap would be 3-400k)? I don't rate Brooks at all but he's still much more value for money than Scott.
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Why would they want Scott though? That's the problem. His attractiveness has tanked since the Storm
RedRaider
Laurie Daley
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Re: 2022 New halfback?

Post by RedRaider »

I don't know that another NRL club would take the risk on Scott unless the Raiders were paying most of his cost. I know we are looking at talent in England. I see that as a more likely place for a player swap. Scott would likely do well there. There must be some 7 in the UK, Union or League, with a good kicking game and who has some footy smarts who wants an opportunity in the NRL.
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