This is not rugby league

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gerg
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by gerg »

Well I reckon the majority of posters on this rugby league forum are familiar with the superstars of the ballet world.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by afgtnk »

T_R wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:55 pm Can anyone think of a sport that consistently changes rules midseason other than the NRL? It's bloody weird.
Probably ballet from the sounds of it.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Billy Walker »

gergreg wrote: May 16, 2021, 10:37 am Well I reckon the majority of posters on this rugby league forum are familiar with the superstars of the ballet world.
I feel like I want to say Max Aaron - yep lock it in Eddie.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
Concussion isn’t caused by impact to the head
It’s caused by the brain hitting the inside of the skull

With or without a helmet, when your head bounces off the turf, the brain still smashes against the side of the skull
So what you’re saying is, we need the NRL to implant padding between the players brains and skulls.

Let’s get St Pete on the phone!
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
With the coming litigation regarding player welfare the technology will only improve regarding the efficacy of PPE .
These rules have all been in the book and havent been acted upon so that leaves the NRL in a tricky situation regarding their complicity in a legal action due to CTE.
The way this directive is being handled,ham fistedly and without due consultation,you have to consider that V’Landys has been given some advice to act immediately.
It would be marginal at best with the headgears used in the NRL I believe.

Look at the NFL. Give them helmets and they start using their heads as offensive weapons haha. There are arguments there about getting rid of the helmet as players would use more self preservation going into contact.
I read a stat that boxing deaths increased once gloves were introduced for similar reasons
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Botman »

raiderskater wrote: May 16, 2021, 10:30 am
Vintagecrop wrote: May 16, 2021, 12:50 am
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:58 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:45 pm
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm

No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
No. You really are.
I’m very squarely on a side of this fence on this. You’ve misread it dreadfully, Dubs
I'm holding my ground on this.

This is the sort of casual sexism that happens every day that is more harmful than you realise.

Do you know how tough you have to be to be a professional ballet dancer? How strong? How many hours and years of work it takes? Azza is stating that ballet dancers are not strong and not tough. And why did he pick ballet? Because it's predominantly a woman's sport. Azza stopped short of saying that the players have to "play like girls now", but that's absolutely what he meant, and that's absolutely harmful as an attitude.
Not predominantly a woman's 'sport'. Nijinsky, Nureyev, Baryshnikov, Hines - the biggest names from ballet in the last 100 years. All male. You are even more guilty of projecting your prejudice on another.

Stick to the main discussion and stop pointing fingers, please.
And how many of those names, apart from Baryshnikov, do you think the average joe knows?

And if we're talking about male ballet dancers why did Azza reference tutus, which are traditionally only worn by women (except occasionally in satirical performances)?

You know damn well why Azza referenced tutus and what his comment meant. The fact that you're trying to defend it says it all, really.
So take your issue up with Azza then. As said, my remarks were quite clearly an obviously a shot at Stuart for his sexist remarks earlier in the week.
Your failure to comprehend that is not my problem.

Please do better next time before levelling accusations of sexism towards someone who displayed nothing of the sort.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 16, 2021, 10:58 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote:
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
With the coming litigation regarding player welfare the technology will only improve regarding the efficacy of PPE .
These rules have all been in the book and havent been acted upon so that leaves the NRL in a tricky situation regarding their complicity in a legal action due to CTE.
The way this directive is being handled,ham fistedly and without due consultation,you have to consider that V’Landys has been given some advice to act immediately.
It would be marginal at best with the headgears used in the NRL I believe.

Look at the NFL. Give them helmets and they start using their heads as offensive weapons haha. There are arguments there about getting rid of the helmet as players would use more self preservation going into contact.
I read a stat that boxing deaths increased once gloves were introduced for similar reasons
Yup have heard similar opinions. Fighters throw punches with no concern for their own knuckles and hands when compared to years ago. But the cosmetics of boxing with wraps rather than gloves means that’s unlikely to get mainstream traction.

Momentum used to be won by winning the contact in the middle third. Now it’s won by six again calls and the ensuing fatigue.
Last edited by Roger Kenworthy on May 17, 2021, 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Botman »

Yeah the same thing has been theorised about the NFL
The ppe they wear now gives them a false sense of security and safety and as a result they act more recklessly under false pretences that they’re being protected
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Billy Walker »

Like it or loathe it, most sports in the world are rightly changing the game to ensure participant safety and I can’t see that changing. The one obvious exception to me is UFC. It appears to be extremely brutal sport that has emerged with huge popularity against a trend of other sports moving in the opposite direction.

I’m not passing judgment or looking to debate whether UFC is good or bad, but I’m keen to know how UFC prospers at a time when most others sports are concerned with brain injury and players welfare.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Pete Cash »

I don't see how speeding the game up and making it safer are compatible goals

The human body has limitations
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 16, 2021, 10:58 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote:
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
With the coming litigation regarding player welfare the technology will only improve regarding the efficacy of PPE .
These rules have all been in the book and havent been acted upon so that leaves the NRL in a tricky situation regarding their complicity in a legal action due to CTE.
The way this directive is being handled,ham fistedly and without due consultation,you have to consider that V’Landys has been given some advice to act immediately.
It would be marginal at best with the headgears used in the NRL I believe.

Look at the NFL. Give them helmets and they start using their heads as offensive weapons haha. There are arguments there about getting rid of the helmet as players would use more self preservation going into contact.
I read a stat that boxing deaths increased once gloves were introduced for similar reasons
There is a serious academic effort to understand why this sort of effect occurs. One well known explanation is Risk Homeostasis Theory. The best evidence for this was experimental. They ran a fleet of Taxi's with half the cars with ABS brakes, and half the cars without. They rotated the drivers among cars. Long story short, they found no difference in accidents. When driving a car with ABS brakes the cabbies broke later.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Billy Walker wrote: May 16, 2021, 11:25 am Like it or loathe it, most sports in the world are rightly changing the game to ensure participant safety and I can’t see that changing. The one obvious exception to me is UFC. It appears to be extremely brutal sport that has emerged with huge popularity against a trend of other sports moving in the opposite direction.

I’m not passing judgment or looking to debate whether UFC is good or bad, but I’m keen to know how UFC prospers at a time when most others sports are concerned with brain injury and players welfare.
Because they are unapologetic about it. In fact they don't even try and debate it. All the focus is on the discipline/toughness, skills, and ethical code - the rest they ignore and treat as noise. Having influential characters supporting it like Joe Rogan certainly helps too
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Billy Walker »

Boomercm wrote: May 16, 2021, 6:13 pm
Billy Walker wrote: May 16, 2021, 11:25 am Like it or loathe it, most sports in the world are rightly changing the game to ensure participant safety and I can’t see that changing. The one obvious exception to me is UFC. It appears to be extremely brutal sport that has emerged with huge popularity against a trend of other sports moving in the opposite direction.

I’m not passing judgment or looking to debate whether UFC is good or bad, but I’m keen to know how UFC prospers at a time when most others sports are concerned with brain injury and players welfare.
Because they are unapologetic about it. In fact they don't even try and debate it. All the focus is on the discipline/toughness, skills, and ethical code - the rest they ignore and treat as noise. Having influential characters supporting it like Joe Rogan certainly helps too
Is it also about the economics of it? I’m guessing it’s a global money maker that rakes in mega bucks for organisers. I’m assuming only a very small number of participants are signed to the UFC and a fair proportion make exceptional money from it. That reduces the number of former participants likely to pursue legal actions and ensures the organisation has the finances to respond to any that might. I also wonder how much of a case you could make against the UFC in reality. You can hardly suggest you didn’t know what the sport entailed or dangers involved.

I guess NRL and other traditional team sports don’t have those circumstances and need to do what they are doing.

I reckon a short rebel Ultimate Rugby League comp that allowed shoulder charges and took a 1980s view to square up and punch ons would get strong ratings haha
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Billy Walker wrote: May 16, 2021, 6:43 pm
Boomercm wrote: May 16, 2021, 6:13 pm
Billy Walker wrote: May 16, 2021, 11:25 am Like it or loathe it, most sports in the world are rightly changing the game to ensure participant safety and I can’t see that changing. The one obvious exception to me is UFC. It appears to be extremely brutal sport that has emerged with huge popularity against a trend of other sports moving in the opposite direction.

I’m not passing judgment or looking to debate whether UFC is good or bad, but I’m keen to know how UFC prospers at a time when most others sports are concerned with brain injury and players welfare.
Because they are unapologetic about it. In fact they don't even try and debate it. All the focus is on the discipline/toughness, skills, and ethical code - the rest they ignore and treat as noise. Having influential characters supporting it like Joe Rogan certainly helps too
Is it also about the economics of it? I’m guessing it’s a global money maker that rakes in mega bucks for organisers. I’m assuming only a very small number of participants are signed to the UFC and a fair proportion make exceptional money from it. That reduces the number of former participants likely to pursue legal actions and ensures the organisation has the finances to respond to any that might. I also wonder how much of a case you could make against the UFC in reality. You can hardly suggest you didn’t know what the sport entailed or dangers involved.

I guess NRL and other traditional team sports don’t have those circumstances and need to do what they are doing.

I reckon a short rebel Ultimate Rugby League comp that allowed shoulder charges and took a 1980s view to square up and punch ons would get strong ratings haha
"You can hardly suggest you didn’t know what the sport entailed or dangers involved. " applies equally to NRL...

Unless (mid stream thought) PVL is worried because he made his rule changes so quickly and without player consultation and consent etc... and head knocks seem to have become more likely under his rules (as have retirements) - and so the NRL believe they are now susceptible to being sued under these rules.

And if that is the case - surely you would just get rid of the 6-again rules instead doubling down. Surely
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by GreenMachine »

How good are these Super Ruby scores?
Let’s make the game faster... no more tackles, just call “touched”...
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Kryptonite »

LastRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 8:18 pm I’ve actually got to say I’m a supporter of most of the rule changes last year and this year. I especially agree with the harsher penalties for any head knocks caused accidentally or purposely.

The game needs to be safer for the long term future. The game isn’t attracting juniors any more especially in participation. I have seen this first hand in my home town. When I was playing we had under 7’s through to 16’s. Now the club fields a little under half of the teams we use too and the population has doubled! Plain and simple, parents are very aware of damage concussions can do long term to children and they are stopping their kids from participating. This is a very important issue and I applaud V’landys for taking a stand.

As for 6 again, this has been great for the game. The game just doesn’t favour size anymore like it use too, it favours all types of body sizes. It’s quicken the game up from those grinding defensive games we saw for the best part of 2010 > 2019.

Change is good!
I respectfully disagree , the game has gone from one end of the spectrum to the other ( wrestle to touch footy) the honcho’s need to find a balance before punters completely disengage, junior footy and regional footy has been on the slide since the commission backed down to clubs demanding ridiculous hand outs after the last billion dollar broadcasting rights
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Billy Walker »

The challenge will be whether the rule changes result can effectively eradicate the play they are seeking to stop.

They introduced the lifting over the horizontal rule a few years back and I recall it wasn’t a smooth transition but it was successful because the spear tackle is gone and players have revised the technique accordingly. The eradication of the shoulder charge is the same.

Rugby union has tried to remove head contact etc but the nature of fast moving contact sports with players falling and stepping make it very hard to avoid all accidental contact. Rugby union is very very hard to watch at the moment.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

LastRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 8:18 pm I’ve actually got to say I’m a supporter of most of the rule changes last year and this year. I especially agree with the harsher penalties for any head knocks caused accidentally or purposely.

The game needs to be safer for the long term future. The game isn’t attracting juniors any more especially in participation. I have seen this first hand in my home town. When I was playing we had under 7’s through to 16’s. Now the club fields a little under half of the teams we use too and the population has doubled! Plain and simple, parents are very aware of damage concussions can do long term to children and they are stopping their kids from participating. This is a very important issue and I applaud V’landys for taking a stand.

As for 6 again, this has been great for the game. The game just doesn’t favour size anymore like it use too, it favours all types of body sizes. It’s quicken the game up from those grinding defensive games we saw for the best part of 2010 > 2019.

Change is good!
What evidence do you have that the drop off in participation has anything to do with head knocks? That same drop-off in participation has happened in cricket.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Seiffert82 »

Hodgson tries to steal the ball from Thompson. Thompson sticks his fingers in Hodgo's eyes (the guy is a grub). Hodgo retaliates by twisting his arm. Hodgson suspended, Thompson nothing. Nice.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Northern Raider wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:25 pm That sin bin against Cowboys was biggest joke of the lot. Tedesco fell right into him.
As I mocked somewhere previously... if they really want a zero tolerance policy for head knocks - they will have to start sending serial attacking offenders like Tedesco to the bin. Most times it's his technique that is the problem, not the guy tackling him
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by sprintman »

Listen to Ray Hadley on now. It might wake some of you up! : I normally despise this clown
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by greeneyed »

Awkward truth NRL must face over Magic Round crackdown

Speaking to Big League Wrap on Sunday night, retired forward James Graham pointed out the new rules introduced in the past 12 months have contributed to a spike in high contact.

“With the way our game is and the speed that it’s played at, I think it’s inevitable these things are going to happen,” Graham said.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 3c91d2fe29
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Billy Walker »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 16, 2021, 10:56 am
Botman wrote:
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
Concussion isn’t caused by impact to the head
It’s caused by the brain hitting the inside of the skull

With or without a helmet, when your head bounces off the turf, the brain still smashes against the side of the skull
So what you’re saying is, we need the NRL to implant padding between the players brains and skulls.

Let’s get St Pete on the phone!
Helmets aren’t the answer - but wrapping the players upper arms and shoulders in bubble wrap perhaps..... 🤔
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by pickles »

I actually thought that the adjustment made last season were good and added to the flow of the game. There were some teething problems in terms of getting the consistency right but on the whole it was an entertaining product.

This year has lost me. I used to watch a lot of neutral games but I can't remember a bigger disparity between the top teams and the rest or as many massive score lines week to week and so many games are a foregone conclusion that there isn't much point watching. There have been far more 50 odd point drubbing than there have been close contests and ultimately, what makes a game exciting is that it is still alive in the last 5 minutes. Over the weekend there was only 1 game decided by less than 10 points. Nothing magic about that!

The game is teetering on the brink of losing it's fan base with constant rule changes, changes mid season and no consistency between games and often within games. It's a shame because I can't see V'Landys backing down and a lot of die hard, rusted on football fans I know are starting to lose interest.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

2020 was great viewing. Everyone was stuck at home and the rule changes made for a great TV experience. With only 18 rounds of the Premiership left it was somewhat sustainable. This year is a mess.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Dimes »

New rules

1. Speed the game up and promote fatigue - and score blowouts (6 again rule)
2. Heavily penalise contact (accidental or not) with a players head during a tackle

These 2 don't synergise very well
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by bonehead »

Dimes wrote:New rules

1. Speed the game up and promote fatigue - and score blowouts (6 again rule)
2. Heavily penalise contact (accidental or not) with a players head during a tackle

These 2 don't synergise very well
3. increase TV ratings
4. lose all the top players to injury and suspension

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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by hrundi89 »

Botman wrote: May 16, 2021, 11:17 am Yeah the same thing has been theorised about the NFL
The ppe they wear now gives them a false sense of security and safety and as a result they act more recklessly under false pretences that they’re being protected
Saw a TikTok (I think) of 2 young American football players (maybe 8 or 9) doing a drill and the defender hits him helmet first in the head, knocks him flat and he lands on the back of his head. The majority response to the video was essentially "great hit" or similar. Boggles the mind.

My son had his first concussion a few weeks ago when he went in to make a tackle and was fended and fell back and hit the back of his head on the ground. Not a good feeling seeing your kid out cold and then falling over when he woke and tried to get up. He's 11 and this is his 8th season playing league.

He's worn headgear from day one but as has been stated, this doesn't help with concussions. As bad as it was it could have been worse - there was a concrete cricket pitch in the middle of the field.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Botman »

one thing about these rule changes i will say is if this head contact stuff is here to stay, and they really want to get people away from the head, they need to figure out how they're going to incentivize legs tackles. Because right now a legs tackle is either a free 10 metres on a quick play the ball and a retreating/stagnate defensive line, or it's an automatic 6 again if the legs tackler holds on to let his team get set

They are going to have to figure out something so a good, clean legs tackler is physically able to get to marker before the ball is played
How they do that? I dont know. Im sure V'landys will think of something on the **** :D
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Wiki Special »

Botman wrote: May 17, 2021, 2:38 pm one thing about these rule changes i will say is if this head contact stuff is here to stay, and they really want to get people away from the head, they need to figure out how they're going to incentivize legs tackles. Because right now a legs tackle is either a free 10 metres on a quick play the ball and a retreating/stagnate defensive line, or it's an automatic 6 again if the legs tackler holds on to let his team get set

They are going to have to figure out something so a good, clean legs tackler is physically able to get to marker before the ball is played
How they do that? I dont know. Im sure V'landys will think of something on the **** :D
I agree 100% and asked Gould on Twitter this morning if that would have been a better place to start if they wanted to eradicate high contact - no reply of course, haha.

Another consideration needs to be that defenders now are going to be at greater risk of friendly fire (think James/Kris in the Warriors game). Team mate head clashes will be more common now both defenders will be aiming for lower first contact.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by GreenMachine »

Legs tackles? What's that again?
It's basically hit, stick and hold, twist and then gently peel off at a rate of 10 sec's per defender...

Leg's tackles are only going to result in offloads...the good teams will load their packs with players that can offload...creating even more fatigue..

....and when the numpty ref won't call "held" in a leg's tackle, you'll see more cannon ball carnage...
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by greeneyed »

As they were saying on Big League Wrap last night, legs tackles have the downside of creating more situations where the tacklers suffer head knocks and concussions.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by -PJ- »

Listening to Gorden Tallis confirms the Rugbrugh Leeg are heading in the right direction.
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#emptythetank :shock:
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Matt »

I've just read though all this, and a few points:
1. People on here should know by now, Botman loves sarcasm. And will continue to hound u if u aren't seeing it. I can tell u

2. Sexism isn't ok.

3. Ballet is crazy elite! (Friend of a friend of mine story, sorry) The younger sister, of the godmother of my kids, left home for Austria at 15 to be a pro. No family, no language, no home to chase an almost unachievable dream - less than 1% become pros. Enough said.

4. What sport has the most recorded concussion case issues?!?! That's right, the NFL. U know, the sport where players wear body armour and have what are basically motorcycle helmets. A few bits of foam like JT, Ponga or Croker wear aren't stopping anything.

5. Mid yr rule changes are dumb! Add it to the list of reviews at seasons end. That way, you have 4-6 months to brain storm all the potential pit falls, rather than learning on the fly. Esp in an elite sport. More grey rules = more problems.

6. I actually applaude the NRL for tackling the issue. But in the same breath, I think canning the execution, timing, etc, etc is perfectly justified.
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Love4Noa
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1132
Joined: April 23, 2008, 1:50 pm

Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Love4Noa »

I absolutely agree with rugby league administration on the crack down.

It is ridiculous to cry poor over tackles that hit people in the head as a first contact. Players should be sin binned or sent from the field.

Players can tackle without hitting the head.

The NRL needs to find a way to reward leg tackles but it will be near impossible based on the athleticism of forwards these days and their ability to offload.

The game should never condone a player remaining on the field if they knock someone else out. Plain and simple.
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