Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 11:21 am
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:01 am
GreenMachine wrote:I'd argue Starling and Kris need more experience before we judge what they will become and I'd rather not overpay Croker and Hodgson for what I know im going to get... given thier age and injury history moreso than their contribution when they were younger and fitter...
It's not Supercoach. You can't just switch players in and out when you're ready to move onto the next player. You can't reduce a players salary mid contract. Rightly or wrongly, when players perform well above their salary most sides bump up their contract but I don't think I've ever seen it go the other way. A players 'next' contract may be less than the 'current' one but that negotiation doesn't happen mid contract.



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You missed the point by a mile.
I’m implying id rather pay younger talented players knowing they will have mixed performances as they develop experience INSTEAD of overpaying older players who are on the wrong side of 30, with an injury history and are pretty much a known quantity….like SJ.
You overpay young players you end up like the Broncos. Player managers know who is being paid what. If you don't have a good balance of young players and experience - so the young guys learn their craft and salaries that match that dynamic, again you end up like the Broncos. If you start cranking up salaries for the young talented guys, the player managers get a whiff and soon enough the young guys all want that money, or they revolt and head for the door. Again the Broncos are the perfect example. If you're refusing to pay your senior players higher salaries, again the player managers know it ... they know that clubs are obligated to spend the majority of their cap so the money has to go to someone.

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I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by RedRaider »

Word from the Journo's on the Sunday Footy Show is that the Raiders have no interest in Shaun Johnson. It will be interesting to see which direction we head in. Young player to develop has been our traditional pattern up until Aiden Sezer and George Williams. We have not been able to produce a gun half back locally since Sticky. Generally they are inconsistent.

Mr Posh, at the risk of once bitten twice shy, are there other half prospects in England we could look at? Don't exclude Rugby halves with their kicking and passing skills.

The alternative is we start 2022 with Sam Williams as half and Brad Schneider as half back in waiting. That is shallow NRL depth imo.
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Seiffert82 »

Shaun Johnson has no interest in us either, and is as old and injury prone as half our current squad, so that's a reasonable position for the club to take. :lol:

Pushing for the Tigers to release Brooks early after the signing of Jackson Hastings seems logical to me. Dally M halfback of the year in 2018, 5th on the try assist table and still only 26, so heading into his prime as a half. I think he'd also fit really well into the club. Anyway, there's not a huge amount of options elsewhere.
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by gerg »

GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 11:21 am
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:01 am
GreenMachine wrote:I'd argue Starling and Kris need more experience before we judge what they will become and I'd rather not overpay Croker and Hodgson for what I know im going to get... given thier age and injury history moreso than their contribution when they were younger and fitter...
It's not Supercoach. You can't just switch players in and out when you're ready to move onto the next player. You can't reduce a players salary mid contract. Rightly or wrongly, when players perform well above their salary most sides bump up their contract but I don't think I've ever seen it go the other way. A players 'next' contract may be less than the 'current' one but that negotiation doesn't happen mid contract.



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You missed the point by a mile.
I’m implying id rather pay younger talented players knowing they will have mixed performances as they develop experience INSTEAD of overpaying older players who are on the wrong side of 30, with an injury history and are pretty much a known quantity….like SJ.
You overpay young players you end up like the Broncos. Player managers know who is being paid what. If you don't have a good balance of young players and experience - so the young guys learn their craft and salaries that match that dynamic, again you end up like the Broncos. If you start cranking up salaries for the young talented guys, the player managers get a whiff and soon enough the young guys all want that money, or they revolt and head for the door. Again the Broncos are the perfect example. If you're refusing to pay your senior players higher salaries, again the player managers know it ... they know that clubs are obligated to spend the majority of their cap so the money has to go to someone.

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I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by afgtnk »

Jarrod Croker.
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by -TW- »

Johnson would be icing to seal a premiership, I don't think we're close to one anymore so would be a waste of big money for a couple of seasons

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by gerg »

afgtnk wrote:Jarrod Croker.
Sammy Williams > Aiden Sezer.

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by afgtnk »

gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:39 pm
afgtnk wrote:Jarrod Croker.
Sammy Williams > Aiden Sezer.

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It's settled once and for all, hasn't it?

My boy has the 7 jumper for the Raiders, while Plodzer is plying his 'trade' in some backwater.
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by The Nickman »

Another gold for old Sammy “Bradbury” Williams!!
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by -TW- »

The Nickman wrote:Another gold for old Sammy “Bradbury” Williams!!
Hahaha I was just thinking that

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by gerg »

-TW- wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Another gold for old Sammy “Bradbury” Williams!!
Hahaha I was just thinking that

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He went to the J. Croker school of tackling, and failed.

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:29 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 11:21 am
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:01 am

It's not Supercoach. You can't just switch players in and out when you're ready to move onto the next player. You can't reduce a players salary mid contract. Rightly or wrongly, when players perform well above their salary most sides bump up their contract but I don't think I've ever seen it go the other way. A players 'next' contract may be less than the 'current' one but that negotiation doesn't happen mid contract.



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You missed the point by a mile.
I’m implying id rather pay younger talented players knowing they will have mixed performances as they develop experience INSTEAD of overpaying older players who are on the wrong side of 30, with an injury history and are pretty much a known quantity….like SJ.
You overpay young players you end up like the Broncos. Player managers know who is being paid what. If you don't have a good balance of young players and experience - so the young guys learn their craft and salaries that match that dynamic, again you end up like the Broncos. If you start cranking up salaries for the young talented guys, the player managers get a whiff and soon enough the young guys all want that money, or they revolt and head for the door. Again the Broncos are the perfect example. If you're refusing to pay your senior players higher salaries, again the player managers know it ... they know that clubs are obligated to spend the majority of their cap so the money has to go to someone.

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I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Again you missed the point.
You don’t have to overpay anyone…for some reason your brain isn’t allowing you to think past this point..
The whole point of this tangent is I’d rather pay younger players on potential and accept the risk versus upside than pay over 30 year olds like Johnson (like Hodgson) who are known quantities and going to demand more money on their final contracts in their careers…Croker is a perfect example of the club getting it wrong and Hodgson could be equally as poor a move if he does want 3 years like it’s been reported.
Johnson would be a bad move at $900k as reported.
Not sure why your spinning your wheels trying to understand a basic concept.
We clearly pay more for Papalli and Wighton because they rightfully are among the best in class for what they do and neither have an injury history or appear to be slowing down both physically and in terms of age…
Can’t help you if you fail to understand this point.
If Johnson were to come for $500k then I’d take it… risk versus reward..
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by gerg »

GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:29 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 11:21 am
GreenMachine wrote: You missed the point by a mile.
I’m implying id rather pay younger talented players knowing they will have mixed performances as they develop experience INSTEAD of overpaying older players who are on the wrong side of 30, with an injury history and are pretty much a known quantity….like SJ.
You overpay young players you end up like the Broncos. Player managers know who is being paid what. If you don't have a good balance of young players and experience - so the young guys learn their craft and salaries that match that dynamic, again you end up like the Broncos. If you start cranking up salaries for the young talented guys, the player managers get a whiff and soon enough the young guys all want that money, or they revolt and head for the door. Again the Broncos are the perfect example. If you're refusing to pay your senior players higher salaries, again the player managers know it ... they know that clubs are obligated to spend the majority of their cap so the money has to go to someone.

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I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Again you missed the point.
You don’t have to overpay anyone…for some reason your brain isn’t allowing you to think past this point..
The whole point of this tangent is I’d rather pay younger players on potential and accept the risk versus upside than pay over 30 year olds like Johnson (like Hodgson) who are known quantities and going to demand more money on their final contracts in their careers…Croker is a perfect example of the club getting it wrong and Hodgson could be equally as poor a move if he does want 3 years like it’s been reported.
Johnson would be a bad move at $900k as reported.
Not sure why your spinning your wheels trying to understand a basic concept.
We clearly pay more for Papalli and Wighton because they rightfully are among the best in class for what they do and neither have an injury history or appear to be slowing down both physically and in terms of age…
Can’t help you if you fail to understand this point.
If Johnson were to come for $500k then I’d take it… risk versus reward..
Neither of us are missing anything. We're just talking past each other. No need to be patronising about it.

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 5:33 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:29 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 11:21 am You overpay young players you end up like the Broncos. Player managers know who is being paid what. If you don't have a good balance of young players and experience - so the young guys learn their craft and salaries that match that dynamic, again you end up like the Broncos. If you start cranking up salaries for the young talented guys, the player managers get a whiff and soon enough the young guys all want that money, or they revolt and head for the door. Again the Broncos are the perfect example. If you're refusing to pay your senior players higher salaries, again the player managers know it ... they know that clubs are obligated to spend the majority of their cap so the money has to go to someone.

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I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Again you missed the point.
You don’t have to overpay anyone…for some reason your brain isn’t allowing you to think past this point..
The whole point of this tangent is I’d rather pay younger players on potential and accept the risk versus upside than pay over 30 year olds like Johnson (like Hodgson) who are known quantities and going to demand more money on their final contracts in their careers…Croker is a perfect example of the club getting it wrong and Hodgson could be equally as poor a move if he does want 3 years like it’s been reported.
Johnson would be a bad move at $900k as reported.
Not sure why your spinning your wheels trying to understand a basic concept.
We clearly pay more for Papalli and Wighton because they rightfully are among the best in class for what they do and neither have an injury history or appear to be slowing down both physically and in terms of age…
Can’t help you if you fail to understand this point.
If Johnson were to come for $500k then I’d take it… risk versus reward..
Neither of us are missing anything. We're just talking past each other. No need to be patronising about it.

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Check the tape SuperCoach I think you kicked off…
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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by gerg »

GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 5:33 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:29 pm
GreenMachine wrote: I never said overpay young players…
I’d rather pay a younger player $300k over 3 years and deal with development issues and upside than a 30+ year old $900k who has injury history and is a known quantity.
So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Again you missed the point.
You don’t have to overpay anyone…for some reason your brain isn’t allowing you to think past this point..
The whole point of this tangent is I’d rather pay younger players on potential and accept the risk versus upside than pay over 30 year olds like Johnson (like Hodgson) who are known quantities and going to demand more money on their final contracts in their careers…Croker is a perfect example of the club getting it wrong and Hodgson could be equally as poor a move if he does want 3 years like it’s been reported.
Johnson would be a bad move at $900k as reported.
Not sure why your spinning your wheels trying to understand a basic concept.
We clearly pay more for Papalli and Wighton because they rightfully are among the best in class for what they do and neither have an injury history or appear to be slowing down both physically and in terms of age…
Can’t help you if you fail to understand this point.
If Johnson were to come for $500k then I’d take it… risk versus reward..
Neither of us are missing anything. We're just talking past each other. No need to be patronising about it.

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Check the tape SuperCoach I think you kicked off…
Huh? Me suggesting cap management isn't supercoach isn't me taking a shot at you suggesting you're a supercoach. It's a reference to the game.

The point I was querying is... if you're not giving Croker and Hodgson bigger contracts ie, your experienced players then who is getting that money? You have to spend your cap, you have to balance it between the players carefully so you don't piss off half your squad. There are deals constantly made with players about when in their careers they will receive the 'good' contract. For example Petro Civinociva (spelling ?). Probably deserved better contracts while younger, but promised fat stacks later and then the Broncos reneged. You've got a talented squad at the Broncos all trying to cash in on their talent. Their cap is a mess.

And for the record I'm not claiming to be an expert on this.

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Re: Canberra Raiders cool on Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 5:54 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 5:33 pm
GreenMachine wrote:
gergreg wrote: June 13, 2021, 3:29 pm So in your world... you're not overpaying the young guys and you're also not overpaying the older guys... who the **** are you paying a decent salary to?

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Again you missed the point.
You don’t have to overpay anyone…for some reason your brain isn’t allowing you to think past this point..
The whole point of this tangent is I’d rather pay younger players on potential and accept the risk versus upside than pay over 30 year olds like Johnson (like Hodgson) who are known quantities and going to demand more money on their final contracts in their careers…Croker is a perfect example of the club getting it wrong and Hodgson could be equally as poor a move if he does want 3 years like it’s been reported.
Johnson would be a bad move at $900k as reported.
Not sure why your spinning your wheels trying to understand a basic concept.
We clearly pay more for Papalli and Wighton because they rightfully are among the best in class for what they do and neither have an injury history or appear to be slowing down both physically and in terms of age…
Can’t help you if you fail to understand this point.
If Johnson were to come for $500k then I’d take it… risk versus reward..
Neither of us are missing anything. We're just talking past each other. No need to be patronising about it.

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Check the tape SuperCoach I think you kicked off…
Huh? Me suggesting cap management isn't supercoach isn't me taking a shot at you suggesting you're a supercoach. It's a reference to the game.

The point I was querying is... if you're not giving Croker and Hodgson bigger contracts ie, your experienced players then who is getting that money? You have to spend your cap, you have to balance it between the players carefully so you don't piss off half your squad. There are deals constantly made with players about when in their careers they will receive the 'good' contract. For example Petro Civinociva (spelling ?). Probably deserved better contracts while younger, but promised fat stacks later and then the Broncos reneged. You've got a talented squad at the Broncos all trying to cash in on their talent. Their cap is a mess.

And for the record I'm not claiming to be an expert on this.

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Ok no problem.
I’ve made my point clearly and that’s fine if you have another opinion.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by greeneyed »

Phil Rothfield on NRL 360 says he spoke to Ricky Stuart on the weekend and the Raiders definitely will not be signing Shaun Johnson.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Raider Azz »

greeneyed wrote: June 21, 2021, 7:23 pm Phil Rothfield on NRL 360 says he spoke to Ricky Stuart on the weekend and the Raiders definitely will not be signing Shaun Johnson.
Buzz with the "scoop"
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Beejay »

I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:38 pm I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
Money.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by kiwi raider »

GreenMachine wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:47 pm
Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:38 pm I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
Money.
the 4-500k he's rumored to be getting at the dogs doesn't sound that excessive to me
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by GreenMachine »

kiwi raider wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:57 pm
GreenMachine wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:47 pm
Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:38 pm I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
Money.
the 4-500k he's rumored to be getting at the dogs doesn't sound that excessive to me
I don't believe that is his price to play for the Raiders...
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by LastRaider »

As every off contract half in the game gets signed, our chances for a 2022 become even more dire.


If Sam Williams is the 7, I’m out. You may even see me watch the brumbies as my primary sport
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Raider Azz »

LastRaider wrote: June 22, 2021, 4:17 pm As every off contract half in the game gets signed, our chances for a 2022 become even more dire.


If Sam Williams is the 7, I’m out. You may even see me watch the brumbies as my primary sport
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Beejay »

GreenMachine wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:47 pm
Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:38 pm I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
Money.
I strongly suspect there’s more to it than that.
I don’t know, and have no inside knowledge.

But he’s been let go in unfathomable circumstances by the Warriors; But I’d question the quality of the decision maker (Kearney), however there was some talk about his attitude to team training ect.
Didn’t make sense to me at the time, he was their second best player and an actual poster boy.

But then Sharks tell him they won’t offer him a contract. No negotiation. When he’s clearly the best half at the club. Weird that you wouldn’t want to retain your best and most experienced half to partner Hynes next year. Instead you keep Moylan? After all the **** that bloke has put up over recent years?
Doesn’t make sense to me.

Now the silence has been deafening from other clubs.
Including ours.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by kiwi raider »

Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 5:37 pm
GreenMachine wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:47 pm
Beejay wrote: June 22, 2021, 1:38 pm I wonder if there's other reasons other than injury history?
Because he's easily the best half of those even being suggested as being shopped, let alone openly on the market.
Money.
I strongly suspect there’s more to it than that.
I don’t know, and have no inside knowledge.

But he’s been let go in unfathomable circumstances by the Warriors; But I’d question the quality of the decision maker (Kearney), however there was some talk about his attitude to team training ect.
Didn’t make sense to me at the time, he was their second best player and an actual poster boy.

But then Sharks tell him they won’t offer him a contract. No negotiation. When he’s clearly the best half at the club. Weird that you wouldn’t want to retain your best and most experienced half to partner Hynes next year. Instead you keep Moylan? After all the **** that bloke has put up over recent years?
Doesn’t make sense to me.

Now the silence has been deafening from other clubs.
Including ours.
Kearney wanted to keep him but had very little say over the roster(that was brian smiths role and cameron george as CEO)The rumour was the warriors had over spent there cap and no longer thought johnsom was worth marquee coin since they had RTS and wanted to improve there squad in other areas(forwards)
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I doubt there is a conspiracy with SJ as to why the Sharks don’t want to sign him.

Probably much like the Hodgson situation for us in that they don’t want to tie up elite/top tier money to a 32 year old with major injuries under his belt.

Both are free to negotiate with other clubs.

If I was a betting man I would say that we are interested in SJ - but at the market rate.

Once he puts the Raiders/Canberra tax on his request….then we are no longer interested.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by kiwi raider »

Johnson returning to the Warriors
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Laurie Daley
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Canberra Milk »

Another surprise one. The mail with Hynes and SJ were both way off

Are they punting Nikorima then?
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Coastalraider »

Nikorima rumoured to be looking to stay in Aus next year.

Id take him considering the options available. Natural right side half, experienced, gives a credible stopgap period while Schneider and Moala develop more.
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-TW-
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by -TW- »

Weird they punted him, then re signed him again after he's arguably a worse investment than what he was... Considering he's pretty much always injured

Their recruitment is flat out bizarre at times

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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by kiwi raider »

-TW- wrote: June 25, 2021, 10:46 am Weird they punted him, then re signed him again after he's arguably a worse investment than what he was... Considering he's pretty much always injured

Their recruitment is flat out bizarre at times

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1million + vs 450k. completely different investment
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by SeeBee101 »

I would like Nikorima, but i'm guessing he will go back to the Broncos to partner Reynolds.
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by Botman »

SeeBee101 wrote: June 25, 2021, 11:29 am I would like Nikorima, but i'm guessing he will go back to the Broncos to partner Reynolds.
Apparently the Broncos are ear marking Katoni Staggs for 5/8th
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Re: Canberra Raiders won't be signing Sharks half Shaun Johnson

Post by SeeBee101 »

Just heard that Titans are in the front seat to get Niko.....Seriously, what does Don actually do besides twiddle his fingers. We are bound to end up with what ever shakes out in the halfback merry-go-round and it won't be pretty....
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