NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Botman wrote: July 6, 2021, 1:16 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 6, 2021, 1:09 pm
Botman wrote: July 6, 2021, 12:19 pm Interesting to note that report has the raiders middle of table as far as fan support goes
It’s survey based about how “passionate” people are. Morgan does something similar (perhaps they’ve even used the Morgan data). The Raiders would be riding on the back of 2019 Grand Final sentiment at the moment. The Morgan numbers have shown similar results recently… but they used to be in the low range.

The methodology is a bit flawed in my view, as it’d make more sense to use indicators like do you watch games, go to games, buy merchandise etc. The Storm pick up large numbers of “supporters” in surveys… ask any Melbournian which rugby league team they support they’ll say the Storm (if any). It’s the only team in the second largest city. Big numbers. But few would actually regularly go to games or watch. The Broncos benefit from being the only team in town in the third biggest city, in a similar way. But that’d translate into much more active support.
Roger that. That makes more sense contextually. Still a pretty good result for such a small market club like ours
I know a lot of people in Canberra who don't really follow league and would probably tell you as much when the Raiders aren't doing well. But as soon as we're top 4 material, they're Raiders fans all of a sudden. My guess is that we would fluctuate between 5th to say 11th depending on success, based on how this data is collected.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by hrundi89 »

Botman wrote: July 6, 2021, 12:19 pm Interesting to note that report has the raiders middle of table as far as fan support goes
Our membership this year is still pretty strong.

Next year may be different.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by greeneyed »

NRL expansion no threat to Canberra Raiders halfback hunt

NRL expansion will make recruitment harder for all 16 current teams, but the Canberra Raiders are confident it won't hurt their halfback hunt. The NRL has reassured clubs they were yet to make a final decision about whether they will introduce a 17th team or not.

"Expansion will make it more competitive for everybody," Don Furner said. "We'll have someone before then. We're not going to panic and we're not going to rush into the wrong signing."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

NRL ‘blindsided’ clubs with expansion call — it sparked fears of a player feeding frenzy: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... e729b1819e

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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:This is the GEMBA report in full: https://origin.go.theaustralian.com.au/ ... 170621.pdf

Apparently, reports these days are simply slide decks. I don't necessarily believe it all (in terms of methodology). But it is a fascinating read.
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Re: NRL expansion not expected to impact Canberra Raiders halfback hunt

Post by Billy Walker »

The Western Australian Tiger Sharks! Introduces a new team to WA and kills off two **** Sydney clubs. Get around it!
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Re: NRL expansion not expected to impact Canberra Raiders halfback hunt

Post by Coastalraider »

Hey Donny, it’s about time to start rushing mate.
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Re: NRL expansion not expected to impact Canberra Raiders halfback hunt

Post by -TW- »

Coastalraider wrote:Hey Donny, it’s about time to start rushing mate.
That's how you end up with Matt Orford

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Re: NRL expansion not expected to impact Canberra Raiders halfback hunt

Post by Coastalraider »

-TW- wrote: September 24, 2021, 9:11 pm
Coastalraider wrote:Hey Donny, it’s about time to start rushing mate.
That's how you end up with Matt Orford

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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Timbo »

PerthRaider86 wrote: June 25, 2021, 9:04 am Why add another Brisbane team???? If its really the NATIONAL rugby league it should expand into either Perth (Yes please) or Adelaide. Not an area which already has two teams (Broncos and Titans). I kno wthe gold coast is an hour drive from brisbane but still in that Southern Qld area
I think Perth will be the 18th team. With 9 matches per round, they’d want to open up another time slot so with the time difference Perth’s home games could be late night (on the East Coast) fixtures.

I think the Brisbane market is big enough, and deserving of, a second team.

It should be the Dolphins IMO.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by greeneyed »

Timbo wrote: September 25, 2021, 2:32 pm
PerthRaider86 wrote: June 25, 2021, 9:04 am Why add another Brisbane team???? If its really the NATIONAL rugby league it should expand into either Perth (Yes please) or Adelaide. Not an area which already has two teams (Broncos and Titans). I kno wthe gold coast is an hour drive from brisbane but still in that Southern Qld area
I think Perth will be the 18th team. With 9 matches per round, they’d want to open up another time slot so with the time difference Perth’s home games could be late night (on the East Coast) fixtures.

I think the Brisbane market is big enough, and deserving of, a second team.

It should be the Dolphins IMO.
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

The best option really is the Firehawks, in my view (I acknowledge my bias here, the Tigers are my boyhood team and my family has had a heavy involvement over a long period). They would represent southern Brisbane, with the Broncos in the north. They are every bit as financial as the Dolphins. People keep talking about the assets of the Dolphins, but the Tigers is one of the biggest licensed leagues club in Queensland. They generate a lot of cash, more than the Dolphins' club.

The commentators on Fox keep saying the Dolphins would be the wealthiest club in the NRL if admitted as they have $100 million in assets. I'm a bit dubious about that. The Raiders football club has $106 million in assets for a start, and that doesn't include the assets of the parent Raiders Group.

It won't surprise me if the NRL award the licence to Redcliffe. But the NRL has a very mixed track record of decision making.

I agree with the proposition that Perth should become the 18th team.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by greeneyed »

NRL expansion could open the door for a raid on Canberra

The Canberra Raiders could have a fight on their hands to hold onto young bull Corey Horsburgh with the NRL set to bring a 17th team into the competition in 2023. Josh Hodgson and Ryan Sutton could also be targets for any expansion team with the pair able to sign with other clubs come November 1.

"It'll be harder for clubs because they've got to sign 30 players, so without a doubt it'll be more competitive," CEO Don Furner said. "But there's other clubs it'll affect more than us."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280

ARLC rubber-stamps expansion plans for 17th NRL team: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 802460df78
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Matt »

This will be the same for any team with players off contract next yr.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I reckon we are already drawing close to a critical juncture whereby we won’t even fight to keep the Hors.

If he comes into 2022 overweight, unfit and ill equipped for Vlandysball I will have seen just about enough.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Dylan’s Raiders »

Mickey_Raider wrote: October 7, 2021, 8:04 pm I reckon we are already drawing close to a critical juncture whereby we won’t even fight to keep the Hors.

If he comes into 2022 overweight, unfit and ill equipped for Vlandysball I will have seen just about enough.
I think both be and Guler have to step up next year. Sutton has overtaken them both imo.

They’ve both been in grade for 3 years now and haven’t progressed as well as I would have liked.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by RedRaider »

I reckon any high profile/rep player off contract for season 2023 will be a target. Plus any promising youngsters to fill out the ranks. I think the Raiders have gone down the right path in locking up a number of youngsters for this reason alone. The new club will want some Star Power to get (1) on field results and (2) attract more fans and sponsors. An extra Club will be a bonanza for Player managers with another $9million plus to get a cut of.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Matt »

I dont think this is an different to any other teams who have players off contract. All clubs will lose players to this 17th team. It's a fact of pro sport.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Colk »

greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Timbo wrote: September 25, 2021, 2:32 pm
PerthRaider86 wrote: June 25, 2021, 9:04 am Why add another Brisbane team???? If its really the NATIONAL rugby league it should expand into either Perth (Yes please) or Adelaide. Not an area which already has two teams (Broncos and Titans). I kno wthe gold coast is an hour drive from brisbane but still in that Southern Qld area
I think Perth will be the 18th team. With 9 matches per round, they’d want to open up another time slot so with the time difference Perth’s home games could be late night (on the East Coast) fixtures.

I think the Brisbane market is big enough, and deserving of, a second team.

It should be the Dolphins IMO.
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

The best option really is the Firehawks, in my view (I acknowledge my bias here, the Tigers are my boyhood team and my family has had a heavy involvement over a long period). They would represent southern Brisbane, with the Broncos in the north. They are every bit as financial as the Dolphins. People keep talking about the assets of the Dolphins, but the Tigers is one of the biggest licensed leagues club in Queensland. They generate a lot of cash, more than the Dolphins' club.

The commentators on Fox keep saying the Dolphins would be the wealthiest club in the NRL if admitted as they have $100 million in assets. I'm a bit dubious about that. The Raiders football club has $106 million in assets for a start, and that doesn't include the assets of the parent Raiders Group.

It won't surprise me if the NRL award the licence to Redcliffe. But the NRL has a very mixed track record of decision making.

I agree with the proposition that Perth should become the 18th team.
I’m surprised by the wealth of the Raiders group. I knew they had wealth but the sheer scale is impressive. Also the Redcliffe wealth and the claim that they would be the wealthiest club in the NRL has been repeated constantly to the point where it has been accepted but I would want to know how they are classifying assets and to which group because a lot of clubs by not just one party.

On the point of whether they should be admitted or not, I do think that the Easts bid would be or have been better; however, their choice of logo and branding has been dreadful. I get the idea that they were trying to be unique but a.) if you have to provide a synopsis about what your logo represents then you have already lost and b.) the logo itself has heavily borrowed from the Adelaide 36’s and netball and the motif of fire had been done to death. They might not have got in because their bid was a bigger threat to the Broncos and Titans than the Dolphins but their logo has not helped their argument at all
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Raider47 »

Only Sutton is worth fighting to hold there. And even he, you wouldn't pay overs to keep as IMO there are enough forwards out there with his similar output. He comes across as a loyal type of guy though so I like our chances of holding on to him.

You get the feeling there is no actual substance behind this and is purely journalism digging for something.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by greeneyed »

BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 5:52 am
greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
The broadcasters, if they had any sense, would have told the NRL that the team needs to be in Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast is a separate TV market for a start. And a population as big as Canberra? They keep telling us our market is too small and if they were to put a pin in the map for a new team today, it wouldn’t be Canberra. Dolphin Oval and Sunshine Coast Stadiums will be the smallest and worst grounds in the NRL. The NRL should be aiming to fill Lang Park every week. Protecting the Broncos is what it’s about… and that’s what they shouldn’t be doing.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 7:30 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 5:52 am
greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
The broadcasters, if they had any sense, would have told the NRL that the team needs to be in Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast is a separate TV market for a start. And a population as big as Canberra? They keep telling us our market is too small and if they were to put a pin in the map for a new team today, it wouldn’t be Canberra. Protecting the Broncos is what it’s about… and that’s what they shouldn’t be doing.
But the population is Sunshine coast + Brisbane whenever the Bronco's are away. It's a 40 minute trip... People drive that long to Bruce.

Also I was speaking about Sunny coast population, if you include Moreton bay area where they are actually from, it you can just about double that population.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by NPC »

The only raid to Canberra or any other teams for that matter will be the lack of availability of Friday night FTA games.

I so look forward to a large number of Friday night games being

Broncos vs X team
Dolphins vs Y team

Other teams might get a run when it's Broncos vs Dolphins
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by raidersmalt »

Losing a player like Horsburgh is a positive for mine.

He's way too much of a loose canon....he has a lot of passion which I love, but is chock full of errors and stupid decisions... plus he cries all the time...it's kinda weird!
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by -TW- »

raidersmalt wrote:Losing a player like Horsburgh is a positive for mine.

He's way too much of a loose canon....he has a lot of passion which I love, but is chock full of errors and stupid decisions... plus he cries all the time...it's kinda weird!
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by greeneyed »

BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 8:02 am
greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 7:30 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 5:52 am
greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
The broadcasters, if they had any sense, would have told the NRL that the team needs to be in Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast is a separate TV market for a start. And a population as big as Canberra? They keep telling us our market is too small and if they were to put a pin in the map for a new team today, it wouldn’t be Canberra. Protecting the Broncos is what it’s about… and that’s what they shouldn’t be doing.
But the population is Sunshine coast + Brisbane whenever the Bronco's are away. It's a 40 minute trip... People drive that long to Bruce.

Also I was speaking about Sunny coast population, if you include Moreton bay area where they are actually from, it you can just about double that population.
The thing is... there are 60,000 people who live in Redcliffe. It is geographically contained, like Cronulla. It is going to be tough to break out of the peninsula. Is there such a thing as the "Moreton Bay region" (I understand, it is now a local council)? Caboolture is about the only other "town". Do they identify with Redcliffe? They can try to market to the Sunshine Coast, but it is a small market too. It is going to be an unappealing option for people in Brisbane.

In my view, the Brisbane Bombers had the right idea... to try and represent the whole of the south of Brisbane... and that's what the Firehawks (Tigers) would/should have aimed to do. Ironically, the Bombers would have been much better merging their bid with the Tigers for that reason. If they'd also established a link to the Seagulls and Magpies it would have been even stronger. But that would have upset the Broncos...
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by yurithe1 »

Foxsports has reviewed which players will be off-contract in 2021 and 2022. It looks like the Raiders have done a good job of locking in our backline talent because, honestly, you look at some of the options at fullback, centre and wing and whichever team gets the green light would be considering either signing a local junior or accepting that they are paying for an experienced, but older and by then slower player.

Among the forwards, Hodgson and Starling are mentioned and we know the Raiders are trying to lock in Starling. Only Ryan Sutton, the Horse and CHN are among the still contracted players who might get a look in. Being a Qlder, I think Horsburgh's agent will try to get him the gig. Sutton and CHN will probably prefer to play in a team that's a shot at reclaiming final's glory rather than having to wait years before that's a reality for the new side.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... ent=static
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by T_R »

greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 10:48 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 8:02 am
greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 7:30 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 5:52 am
greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
The broadcasters, if they had any sense, would have told the NRL that the team needs to be in Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast is a separate TV market for a start. And a population as big as Canberra? They keep telling us our market is too small and if they were to put a pin in the map for a new team today, it wouldn’t be Canberra. Protecting the Broncos is what it’s about… and that’s what they shouldn’t be doing.
But the population is Sunshine coast + Brisbane whenever the Bronco's are away. It's a 40 minute trip... People drive that long to Bruce.

Also I was speaking about Sunny coast population, if you include Moreton bay area where they are actually from, it you can just about double that population.
The thing is... there are 60,000 people who live in Redcliffe. It is geographically contained, like Cronulla. It is going to be tough to break out of the peninsula. Is there such a thing as the "Moreton Bay region" (I understand, it is now a local council)? Caboolture is about the only other "town". Do they identify with Redcliffe? They can try to market to the Sunshine Coast, but it is a small market too. It is going to be an unappealing option for people in Brisbane.

In my view, the Brisbane Bombers had the right idea... to try and represent the whole of the south of Brisbane... and that's what the Firehawks (Tigers) would/should have aimed to do. Ironically, the Bombers would have been much better merging their bid with the Tigers for that reason. If they'd also established a link to the Seagulls and Magpies it would have been even stronger. But that would have upset the Broncos...
Between Moreton and Sunshine Coast (including a huge league area in Caboolture), the population is about 440,000 - not that different to Canberra, and I would guess much more league focused. Sunshine Coast alone is now 340,000 (population of Canberra in 1982 was 230,000, if that's in any way relevant). You could add Fraser Coast at a stretch, too....no NRL team between Brissie and Townsville in that direction, but there are a lot of junior clubs and decent community involvement. How far do people drive to a game? An hour? 90 minutes? You'll be nudging half a million people to the north, plus whatever the can find themselves in the northern suburbs of Brisbane. Not to be sneezed at.

I do take your point about the south of Brisbane, but that would mean you'd have Broncs + New team + Titans all within a very, very small part of the state. I hope the new team might open things to the north a little, instead.

The first priority of the new team should be to wrestle the Sunshine Coast Falcons off the Storm, and then play some of their games up at Sunshine Coast stadium. Would bring the region nicely into their basket.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Colk »

greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 10:48 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 8:02 am
greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 7:30 am
BadnMean wrote: October 8, 2021, 5:52 am
greeneyed wrote: September 25, 2021, 3:36 pm
Selecting Redcliffe is going to be a mistake, IMO. They have a very small population base, and are a bit like the Sharks and Sea Eagles, geographically isolated. They won't appeal to the vast bulk of the Brisbane population. Brisbane is the population base and TV audience any team needs to tap into.

The Dolphins seem to think they'll become the "Sunshine Coast" team or a "northern corridor" team (not that such a thing exists - there is no geographic relationship between the Sunshine Coast and Redcliffe, it's not a "region" anyone would identify with). That'll no doubt suit the Broncos. But a key reason for getting a second team into the competition should be to give the 2.4 million people of Brisbane another team. To break the monopoly that the Broncos have on Brisbane. The two teams would still have a population base that is more than double the average of a Sydney team, if a team actually based in Brisbane were introduced. There should be a game at Lang Park every weekend... but Redcliffe plan to play out of three grounds. Sunshine Coast Stadium, Dolphin Oval and Lang Park.

Dunno about that. I think you're right in that they see it as being a Redcliffe/Sunshine coast team and that's a population about as big as Canberra. But I have a bunch of mates who moved their families up to the sunshine coast, from Nambour to Caloundra and every one of them texted me saying they hope the Dolphins get up, they'd love to go watch a game there... Both Sunshine coast stadium and Dophin park...

90% of the money and the decision comes from broadcast considerations. Crowd secondary.
The broadcasters, if they had any sense, would have told the NRL that the team needs to be in Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast is a separate TV market for a start. And a population as big as Canberra? They keep telling us our market is too small and if they were to put a pin in the map for a new team today, it wouldn’t be Canberra. Protecting the Broncos is what it’s about… and that’s what they shouldn’t be doing.
But the population is Sunshine coast + Brisbane whenever the Bronco's are away. It's a 40 minute trip... People drive that long to Bruce.

Also I was speaking about Sunny coast population, if you include Moreton bay area where they are actually from, it you can just about double that population.
The thing is... there are 60,000 people who live in Redcliffe. It is geographically contained, like Cronulla. It is going to be tough to break out of the peninsula. Is there such a thing as the "Moreton Bay region" (I understand, it is now a local council)? Caboolture is about the only other "town". Do they identify with Redcliffe? They can try to market to the Sunshine Coast, but it is a small market too. It is going to be an unappealing option for people in Brisbane.

In my view, the Brisbane Bombers had the right idea... to try and represent the whole of the south of Brisbane... and that's what the Firehawks (Tigers) would/should have aimed to do. Ironically, the Bombers would have been much better merging their bid with the Tigers for that reason. If they'd also established a link to the Seagulls and Magpies it would have been even stronger. But that would have upset the Broncos...
I think they were more worried about the Titans than the Broncos. Sure the Broncos have obviously campaigned to the NRL about a team in the south of Brisbane but so have the Titans and the weak support they currently have would be a concern.

I think the biggest thing about this Redcliffe selection though is the marketing of both the Firehawks and the Bombers (pre merger) has just failed to get any traction.

The NRL has shown that they don’t know what they want by virtue of this process. All of the bids had massive holes either geographical or marketing/planning. They should have first decided if they wanted to do it and if they decided to go ahead build the side themselves, placing it where it is of greatest strategic value (Springwood) and canvassing the name through communication with supporters in the region.

If they go to Perth or later to other areas, I hope they learn their lesson; although I don’t hold much hope
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by greeneyed »

The Titans are one reason why the NRL should be worried about giving the franchise to the Dolphins. Small population base (540,000) and transitory population base as well. Not exactly in the TV market of a Brisbane television station (part of a capital city network). Putting the franchise in "Moreton/Sunshine Coast"... same fundamental problem.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by 1992 »

Considering our great leaders have destroyed our nation, I would like to see the CCP support two new teams.
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Re: NRL expansion to impact Canberra Raiders - but not as much as Queensland clubs

Post by Raiders_Pat »

greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 10:48 am
The thing is... there are 60,000 people who live in Redcliffe. It is geographically contained, like Cronulla. It is going to be tough to break out of the peninsula. Is there such a thing as the "Moreton Bay region" (I understand, it is now a local council)? Caboolture is about the only other "town". Do they identify with Redcliffe? They can try to market to the Sunshine Coast, but it is a small market too. It is going to be an unappealing option for people in Brisbane.

In my view, the Brisbane Bombers had the right idea... to try and represent the whole of the south of Brisbane... and that's what the Firehawks (Tigers) would/should have aimed to do. Ironically, the Bombers would have been much better merging their bid with the Tigers for that reason. If they'd also established a link to the Seagulls and Magpies it would have been even stronger. But that would have upset the Broncos...
Moreton Bay Region is an LGA, it goes as far north as Woodford in the north west, Bribie Island in the north east, and as far south as Arana Hills. The population of that area is about the same as the ACT and the population of the Sunshine Coast and surrounding area is nearly the same as well. I honestly think their bid makes the most sense geographically. But Brisbane should have two new teams in my view. Dolphins would represent the Moreton Bay Region and Sunshine Coast, Brisbane Broncos would become the team for the City of Brisbane area, and the second new team would represent Redland City, Logan City and the City of Ipswich. Titans cover Gold Coast and NSW far north coast.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by greeneyed »

But there is not really any geographic relationship between Ipswich and Logan or Redlands. Ipswich has a much clearer relationship to Brisbane. There is a road from Ipswich to Logan, but that doesn't make it a region or a "corridor". That one makes the least sense of all for mine.

I do understand there is a Moreton Bay LGA. But is it actually a "region"? I think people would think of themselves as residents of their smaller localities.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Timbo »

The team will almost certainly be called 'The Brisbane Dolphins'.

For all of their regionalism and saying they'll be splitting games between Redcliffe, Brisbane and the Sunny Coast, I could see them being allowed to play maybe 2 games away from Lang Park per year at most.

At the end of the day that's why this club is coming in. The broadcaster wants a game a week on Thursday or Friday at Lang Park.

I think they'll allow them to play twice a year at Redcliffe against low-drawing clubs in Brisbane like Cronulla or us, and the other ten will all be back at Lang Park.
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Raiders_Pat »

greeneyed wrote: October 8, 2021, 12:50 pm But there is not really any geographic relationship between Ipswich and Logan or Redlands. Ipswich has a much clearer relationship to Brisbane. There is a road from Ipswich to Logan, but that doesn't make it a region or a "corridor". That one makes the least sense of all for mine.

I do understand there is a Moreton Bay LGA. But is it actually a "region"? I think people would think of themselves as residents of their smaller localities.
I agree that people generally would see themselves as residents of their smaller localities but people will support a team if they are playing games in the area. The Broncos have a huge fan base and I think that's the biggest challenge around bringing one new Brisbane team into the competition - there will be many people who will just stick with the Broncos. But if the NRL declares that the long term plan is to bring in two new teams in Brisbane, roughly outlined these catchment areas for each of the teams and made a solid commitment to follow through with the plan, I think you have a good chance of people within each of those areas to declare their allegiance to their local team.

Considering the fact that there are 9 clubs in Sydney and 10 if you count Newcastle as Sydney and surrounds, 4 for Brisbane and surrounds is reasonable imo, even if you reduce two of the clubs in the Sydney region to 8. 8 clubs for Sydney and surrounds, 4 clubs for Brisbane and surrounds, plus Canberra, Melbourne, North Queensland, New Zealand makes sense as a starting point, then you can choose between Perth, New Zealand and Melbourne as to where you would expand outside of our core rugby league centres
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Re: NRL expansion could lead to raid on Canberra

Post by Colk »

It’s interesting seeing the issues presented as I can attest that I’m not a Queenslander and I don’t know a lot on the geography.

My thoughts on the matter is that you don’t want to repeat the same mistakes as the Sydney expansion such as putting in sides like Cronulla, Manly and Penrith (to a lesser extent due to the growth potential in that Western Sydney region) which is the complete opposite of AFL and has led to low audience and corporate following.

My feelings are you should put in a team that is as closest to the corporate centre and largest population base.

Based on what Greeneyed has said it should be the Firehawks on a strategic angle but Jesus why pick that name?

Also re 1992, I couldn’t trust NRL doing it properly either but a competent admin like AFL would have built it themselves and done it well. Greeneyed and others how did the Broncos come into being and why couldn’t it be done again? It seems to have worked for them
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