2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
13%
Raiders 1-12
5
63%
Draw
0
No votes
Sharks 1-12
1
13%
Sharks 13+
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

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Canberra Milk
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

Morgan Harper is Xavier Savage off Wish
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

LP Raider wrote:Our biggest priority atm is finding a #7 for next year.

Looks like Melbourne's going to do a number on the Knights, so a pretty good Saturday for the Raiders.
Totally agreed. And fixing our defence. And getting more speed into the backline.

Ballplaying at fullback is overrated.

Flat out speed and the ability to kick yourself into field position wins games. Always has. Always will. IMO.

Savage is not even close to a ball playing fullback, but he instantly makes us look dangerous by sniffing for offloads around the middle, despite the fact we have **** halves.

It's not rocket surgery.



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greeneyed
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »



Full post match round up, including team song.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote:
Raider47 wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:05 pm On an unrelated note, my gosh this Melbourne Storm team has to be one of those most dominant teams I have ever seen.
Outrageous football team
This is bellemy’s masterpiece
Yeah, I've been a critic of Bellamy's style of coaching in the past, but these last two seasons are next level.

Highly impressed with what he has achieved with this squad.

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afgtnk
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Ball playing at fullback overrated :lol:

Classic.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Says the bloke without enough brains to put together a single original thought.

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afgtnk
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:45 pm
afgtnk wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:23 pm Defintely agree with Botman. Great game, brilliant, highly exciting prospect... but I just don't see him as a fullback.

Playing Savage at fullback would be no different to playing Addo-Carr there. Addo-Carr would do very similar things in the position, but even better at this point in their respective careers. It'd be a waste though. A guy like Savage is potentially a 15+ try a season player. What helps the Storm so dangerous is Addo-Carr sticking wide and on his wing, receiving the ball in space where he uses his greatest asset to full effect. Our game has to change under Vlandysball, and if/when it does, Savage is the type of player that will give us huge advantage.

The sniffing up the ruck stuff is something he can still do as a winger. Plenty of outside backs do it. I must note too that he didn't trail up there much from the second half onwards (could've been fitness - that Wighton try had him well behind the ruck when he received the ball), and his defensive positioning probably left a lot to be desired.

This guy to me is a player born to score tries, not set them up.
You're off the mark here. He'll make a career out of starting things, not finishing them. That is the (very) big difference between him and Addo-Carr
Look I hope so, but I highly doubt it.

Savage will be very lucky to end up close to the player Addo-Carr is, tbh. Addo-Carr isn't just a finisher - his speed and agility regularly gives him the ability to make something out of nothing and convert that to four points. How many times have you seen him sniff out an inch of space when nothing's on and go past his man. Chase down kicks that lesser players would have go dead.

Savage doing that would be far more valuable to us than trying to make space and put away others at 1, along with the extra loads of pressure, fitness, defensive work, and random effort areas/grunt work the position requires. A Ferrari shouldn't be made to do the school run and trips to the shops.
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afgtnk
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 17, 2021, 10:01 pm Says the bloke without enough brains to put together a single original thought.

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If ball playing at fullback being overrated is an original thought, then Christ almighty I do hope to never have one if that's the case. Absolute stinker :lol:
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gerg
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by gerg »

Savage is probably best suited to the wing and in a Storm, Panthers or even Rabbits team is probably challenging for the Ken Irvine medal for the next decade. In our side our wingers get the ball ten metres out from our own tryline, running into a compressed defensive forward pack. I can understand why he is playing at fullback.

Was also great to see him sniffing around behind the ruck, waiting for those Papalii or Tapine offloads, certainly missed a player doing this for some time now.

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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Ruben Daley »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:43 pm
Ruben Daley wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:24 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 17, 2021, 8:54 pm A word on Rapa's game. I reckon he was good yet again. He was asked to go to fullback for a time, while X took some time on the wing. He is just so whole hearted. A real team player. I know he has lost a yard in pace, but he still has plenty to offer the Raiders and he never gives up. I know he will have to retire at some point but I just love his commitment to the side. He puts his body on the line every week.
Ricky’s presser gave me the impression Rapa wasn’t asked but just did it because he could see Xavage* needed a spell. Bit like the point in the Sportress article during the week about how Rapa supported him last week. Just a legend.

* I’ve been pioneering ‘Xavage’ among my mates but this is it’s offical public debut. I’ll await consensus about it’s awesomeness.
I like X Man
Good. Perhaps also Weapon X?
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

Ruben Daley wrote: July 17, 2021, 10:21 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:43 pm
Ruben Daley wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:24 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 17, 2021, 8:54 pm A word on Rapa's game. I reckon he was good yet again. He was asked to go to fullback for a time, while X took some time on the wing. He is just so whole hearted. A real team player. I know he has lost a yard in pace, but he still has plenty to offer the Raiders and he never gives up. I know he will have to retire at some point but I just love his commitment to the side. He puts his body on the line every week.
Ricky’s presser gave me the impression Rapa wasn’t asked but just did it because he could see Xavage* needed a spell. Bit like the point in the Sportress article during the week about how Rapa supported him last week. Just a legend.

* I’ve been pioneering ‘Xavage’ among my mates but this is it’s offical public debut. I’ll await consensus about it’s awesomeness.
I like X Man
Good. Perhaps also Weapon X?
Personal beverage sponsor could be FoureX. X Factor.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Ruben Daley wrote: July 17, 2021, 9:24 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 17, 2021, 8:54 pm A word on Rapa's game. I reckon he was good yet again. He was asked to go to fullback for a time, while X took some time on the wing. He is just so whole hearted. A real team player. I know he has lost a yard in pace, but he still has plenty to offer the Raiders and he never gives up. I know he will have to retire at some point but I just love his commitment to the side. He puts his body on the line every week.
Ricky’s presser gave me the impression Rapa wasn’t asked but just did it because he could see Xavage* needed a spell. Bit like the point in the Sportress article during the week about how Rapa supported him last week. Just a legend.

* I’ve been pioneering ‘Xavage’ among my mates but this is it’s offical public debut. I’ll await consensus about it’s awesomeness.
Yeah that the value add plus effort you get from Rapana
Bay53
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

After 17 rounds there is going to be a team in the finals positions with a 41% win rate. (And we are in 9th equal with that)

What is the lowest % win / loss ratio to ever play finals?
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 17, 2021, 8:04 pm
Green Taipan wrote: July 17, 2021, 7:58 pm I think this is the first time this year we have played an expansive game. Ricky's usual game plan is the boring and predictable one -out up the middle. Hopefully, we build on this revelation!
Agreed, Green Taipan. That was what made me so happy. Use our strengths in Papa, CHN, Tapine offloads, then spread.
Yeah dead set no rocket surgery is it, C,Mon Stick you mugg, have a go!
Bay53
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Bay53 wrote: July 17, 2021, 10:59 pm After 17 rounds there is going to be a team in the finals positions with a 41% win rate. (And we are in 9th equal with that)

What is the lowest % win / loss ratio to ever play finals?
It actually possible Cronulla could lose next week and still be 8th at 7 and 11.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by lomax »

The best thing to come out of season 2021 is X Savage
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gangrenous
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2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Edit - nope, just tapatalk being weird
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

lomax wrote: July 17, 2021, 11:26 pm The best thing to come out of season 2021 is X Savage
If you think his footy is good, check out his music video.

[
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Thomas Raider »

Northern Raider wrote: July 17, 2021, 11:34 pm
lomax wrote: July 17, 2021, 11:26 pm The best thing to come out of season 2021 is X Savage
If you think his footy is good, check out his music video.

[
Definitely X factor material :roflmao
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by radicalraider »

OHHHHHH CANBERRRAAAAAAAAA IIISSS WONDERFULLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Raiders Lim! »

Bay53 wrote: July 17, 2021, 10:59 pm After 17 rounds there is going to be a team in the finals positions with a 41% win rate. (And we are in 9th equal with that)

What is the lowest % win / loss ratio to ever play finals?
I've got very vivid memories of a Woolford interview (obviously a while ago) where we scraped into the 8 and he was actually embarrassed that we did. :hmmm
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-TW-
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

In 2002 we were 10-1-13 in 8th after the dogs got punted for the salary cap

St George made it with 9-3-13 and Parra with 10-2-12

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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by FROG »

I think some of you blokes are delusional when it comes to what makes a good fullback. It is the most complex role in a team and setting up tries is but a fraction of what makes a good fullback. By that logic wighton would be a solid fullback and yet he was absolutely rubbish and the team was unsuccessful as a result. give me a fullback that will catch the ball on the full, defuse grubers, set the defence, serve as an effective last line of defence, do tough carries out of our own end, finish tries off etc. You want a ball playing fullback because of problems with our halves. You are failing to see that this is the root cause of our problems. And as others have said, to me a solid kicking game is our biggest deficiency by a country mile. It was what won us the game against manly and it is why Frawley should play next week. That all said, I just wanted to call out how pleased I was with Savage's game. It was indeed the highlight for this year. I'm concerned that he is going to get belted at some stage, I just hope it doesn't affect his confidence because he is a joy to watch

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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Savage was great. I don't know how anyone can watch him play one game at 19 and declare with authority he's a this or a that. He's clearly pretty talented and will get his hands on the footy a lot at FB. He has the instinct to pass at least, so there's a chance that develops. I wouldn't even expect a teenage player to have much a passing game. I certainly don't remember watching younger Latrell at centre and thinking he would end up one of the great passing fullbacks. But he knew he could. We'll wait and see I guess.

He's there at the moment because of injuries (2) but Ricky wouldn't have you debut there unless he thought you had potential in the position. He may well play a fair bit of wing while he develops his game anyway.

CHN absolutely terrorised the Sharks. One of his best games in NRL. His defence wasn't bad either. Young played more like last year.

Starling was excellent. Much of this is because the forwards made metres. Guler 150m, Young, Sutton, CHN and Tapine 100m+ as well as some nice set up runs from Rapana and Savage. That all sets the stage for the zippy, running and backing up hooker.

It's becoming clear where the future of this team is. We have the nucleus of a good group of young players to move forward with. It's going to be about keeping the right older players around them without clogging the place up with dying branches.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Frogs post is 100% on the money, and BadnMean’s is equally as good. How nice it is to wake on Sunday after a great raiders win, a new talent unearthed, and even find some very sensible posts on the GH. I have to chuckle that the same folks that were outraged that Ricky would ruin a youngster by picking him at fullback are now doubling down about flaws in his game after the kid had an extraordinarily good game at fullback.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Yep, I completely agree with FROG.

New game plan
Improvement in the halves
Jack at lock

That’d be my plan for next year
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

If you ever want your forward pack to look fast and mobile, play the Sharks.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Northern Raider wrote: July 18, 2021, 8:11 am If you ever want your forward pack to look fast and mobile, play the Sharks.
Talakai looks a little cuddly for a modern NRL player, Woods is a myth - yeah there isn’t a lot going on there but you can only beat who is in front of you and more than a few thought that slow pack was going to put us to the sword.

I still think we make the 8 with a bit of momentum behind us. Green bread may still be baked this year!
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Dimes »

FROG wrote: July 18, 2021, 6:55 am I think some of you blokes are delusional when it comes to what makes a good fullback. It is the most complex role in a team and setting up tries is but a fraction of what makes a good fullback. By that logic wighton would be a solid fullback and yet he was absolutely rubbish and the team was unsuccessful as a result. give me a fullback that will catch the ball on the full, defuse grubers, set the defence, serve as an effective last line of defence, do tough carries out of our own end, finish tries off etc. You want a ball playing fullback because of problems with our halves. You are failing to see that this is the root cause of our problems. And as others have said, to me a solid kicking game is our biggest deficiency by a country mile. It was what won us the game against manly and it is why Frawley should play next week. That all said, I just wanted to call out how pleased I was with Savage's game. It was indeed the highlight for this year. I'm concerned that he is going to get belted at some stage, I just hope it doesn't affect his confidence because he is a joy to watch

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good point re: fullback having to do halves job for them
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

People don't say Hynes, Turbo, Kennedy, Gutho or Latrell are only needed because of deficient halves. They just recognise that play making fullbacks give a team a lot of point scoring options, which helps the team and allows the halves to not be the only creative source. Bunk argument.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

On reflection I think Sammy helped as well. He lacks technical ability and vision but at least he farms the ball out, it brings CHN etc into the game. CHN always looked stifled next to GWilly. Although it's just not just Sam Williams, it's also having a good ballplaying 13 (Hodgo) which I am still very happy with. Ricky late to the party on that but at least he got there
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by raiderskater »

I didn't get to watch this live because of a dinner, but I am very very pleased watching on replay. The team played well, with real intent, good defense. Our attack is still clunky in places but was much better. And it was an 80 minute performance.

Savage is going to be an absolute star.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

So Savage is 19, has played 160 minutes in first grade, helped set up a try with a classy dive pass and we're already writing off his ballplaying skills?
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Watched the game again this morning. Definitely think Starling coming on early has helped us change our fortunes in the last two weeks. Came on around 30 min mark this game, Ricky should have brought him on even earlier like the Manly game as we were losing momentum mid way through the first half. We were very zippy and were more dangerous after his introduction. He is also one of the first to kicks downfield, and his defence on Mulitalo resulted to Savage's try. I think Ricky should continue using Starling early instead of the token 70 min substitution. I think Ricky has learned in this regard to use the bench better. Starling's defence up the middle is good as well.

Actually, our defence was great and they only scored on the edge twice. A few one on one mistakes (Semi rushing up and got no one on Katoa's try; Kris got no one, Rapa came in on Mulitalo's try; Tapine miss on Ramien), but very few line breaks for a team containing Kennedy, Connor Treacy, Ramien, Johnson and their wingers.

The forwards went well and made metres to allow us to play a fast up tempo game. I think Guler who was not mentioned much above had a fantastic game, and he's getting fitter now. Papa, Sutton and Tapine (besides the miss on Ramien) were very solid. Even Sia made good metres at the opening. We have spoken about CHN and Young above who played their best games for Canberra and this year respectively. CHN did great to hold up Wilton when he was over the line. They looked fitter than earlier this year. Someone said CHN did not have a pre season due to injury which explains his slow start. I didn't see any missed tackles for Young. Ricky cannot now give Whitehead the starting spot after Young's performances. Young offered more than Whitehead. Whitehead has to start at lock (to be replaced by Hodgson when Starling comes on) or on the bench.

Semi made good metres on carries and is a better option than Bailey on the wing, despite one dumb incident. He looks to get involved.

Savage should stay at fullback even when everyone is fit. Ricky cannot go back to Bailey or CNK. We have strike when Savage is at fullback.

The Sharks game should be the new blueprint - we cannot go back to playing slow and safe.
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Re: 2021 Rd 18 V Sharks: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: July 18, 2021, 11:22 am So Savage is 19, has played 160 minutes in first grade, helped set up a try with a classy dive pass and we're already writing off his ballplaying skills?
I’m certainly not writing it off
He’s barely scratched the surface of what he’s capable of.

I’ve got no idea if he will develop as a ball player. We’ve not seen a lot of if yet so I don’t even have a very good feel for how good, bad or indifferent his base for ball playing is right now.

But I do believe it to be a necessary skill set for an NRL fullback. More than happy to give him time in the role to see if that’s something he can develop though.

If he can, he’ll be a long term NRL fullback and the sky is the limit
If he can’t, we’ve got a JAC level winger imo

I’m looking forward to seeing how it unfolds
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