Ruben Daley wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 7:10 pm
Brown is easily better than those two. Again, not in fit for our team but he’s tough, is an excellent defender and can attack. I’d rather a bad fit than carry proven a underperformer who’ll frustrate us with his weak defence, the games he goes missing and his inconsistency.
He can attack? I don't think so. Certainly can't playmake. But tough, excellent defender, gritty... sounds like a good candidate for Rickyball and that Ricky hasn't learned his lesson
I agree he can’t playmake hence why I said he is a bad fit because neither can Jack. But he can run and threaten the line.
I might have an inflated view of his ability but I’m not trying to oversell him. I’d like a decent kicking and organising half too. But the only one around is Pearce and I don’t think he’s coming.
My point was more about Brown being better than the other two even if he’s a bad fit because the consequences of a bad fit are less than those of getting a bad player or rushing Schneider in if he’s not ready (but I’m all for it if he is). Admittedly, none are good.
You’re right about those gritty qualities being right up Ricky’s alley. We’ll be simplifying the game plan again next year...
I'm glad we've realised we need to turn the squad over, if we went into 22 with the bulk of the same players you'd have to ask how serious we are about winning this thing
Ruben Daley wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 7:10 pm
Brown is easily better than those two. Again, not in fit for our team but he’s tough, is an excellent defender and can attack. I’d rather a bad fit than carry proven a underperformer who’ll frustrate us with his weak defence, the games he goes missing and his inconsistency.
He can attack? I don't think so. Certainly can't playmake. But tough, excellent defender, gritty... sounds like a good candidate for Rickyball and that Ricky hasn't learned his lesson
Not a playmaker no.
He's quick though- clocked in top 10 for fastest recorded speeds in the NRL in 2020. That's genuine speed.
So there's potential for his attack to be lethal, if he can improve a little bit as a footballer. Which at that age in a new system- he might.
You don't have Brown and Wighton in the halves . Neither is a ball playing half or game manager . We need a half that has footy smarts and is a game manger , allowing our 5/8 to play the running game. Who that is I dont know, I would have chased hard for Reynolds but the GW timing was a bit off.
LimeGreenMachine wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 9:01 pm
You don't have Brown and Wighton in the halves . Neither is a ball playing half or game manager . We need a half that has footy smarts and is a game manger , allowing our 5/8 to play the running game. Who that is I dont know, I would have chased hard for Reynolds but the GW timing was a bit off.
And Josh Hodgson has shown he isn't a play maker/game manager as well. We need to bring in an organising half, desperately. If you bring in Brown, he's not the fix. He's an addition to your option for a running five eighth. As I said, I don't think we have a solution inside the club. I don't think Moala is going to be, Schneider could be, and I hope he can be be. I hope I'm wrong on both counts. But I wouldn't be betting the house on that happening in the next two years. That's why we need to recruit from outside in my view.
I think you've got to move Wighton to 13. Puts and extra playmaking option in the middle of the park, which lets CNK focus on supporting the ball runner and defending.
Brown at six would work very well with this, as long as someone with a kicking game plays at seven.
greeneyed wrote:If we were signing Dylan Brown AND Mitchell Pearce that might be a plan. Buys a couple of years to find an organising half. I don’t think we have one inside the club, but I’d be pleased if Schneider could prove that wrong. Frees up Wighton for a role as a strike lock/back rower or maybe at centre. Hodgson should be moved on, in my view. He is past his best, he seems at odds with the club, publicly, is taking up a lot of dollars… and presently isn’t our best hooker. He doesn’t gel well with the halves, he takes too much control, and some of the play making is pretty awful. I’ll be surprised if Jarrod doesn’t retire, and if he does, he’ll have a place in our history as one of the greatest Raiders.
On the list of the unsigned, we can be pretty sure that Soliola will retire and Lui won’t be renewed. And we know Aekins and Havili are leaving. Those are good decisions from the club.
Can't see it happening, but I'd be very happy with signing Pearce and Brown given what that would mean for Wighton.
greeneyed wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 7:18 pm
If we were signing Dylan Brown AND Mitchell Pearce that might be a plan. Buys a couple of years to find an organising half. I don’t think we have one inside the club, but I’d be pleased if Schneider could prove that wrong. Frees up Wighton for a role as a strike lock/back rower or maybe at centre. Hodgson should be moved on, in my view. He is past his best, he seems at odds with the club, publicly, is taking up a lot of dollars… and presently isn’t our best hooker. He doesn’t gel well with the halves, he takes too much control, and some of the play making is pretty awful. I’ll be surprised if Jarrod doesn’t retire, and if he does, he’ll have a place in our history as one of the greatest Raiders.
On the list of the unsigned, we can be pretty sure that Soliola will retire and Lui won’t be renewed. And we know Aekins and Havili are leaving. Those are good decisions from the club.
Botman wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 7:20 pm
It maybe that Dylan Brown comes here and with extra responsbility he grows an extra leg and ends up amazing... but i would suggest it's highly unlikely.
Dylan Brown is a player who has so far in his career shown to have virtually no creative quivvers in his bow. He hasn't shown any ability to ball play, he's been ordinary to terrible any time he's forced into being a primary kicker, be it for territory or attacking kicks, he's not a difference maker as a ball runner. Frawley and Williams are objectively better creators than he is (not players overall, creators)
He's a good NRL footballer, im not saying the guy isnt talented or shouldnt be in FG. There is a role for this sort of player at many clubs where they have a lot of creative spark and energy in other spine positions, and who are well coached so their players know their roles and play within them. If you want a player who will support the ball carrier, is an OK ball runner, who will get the ball out nice and early to his ball playing fullback and will stump up and make his tackles, then he's a perfectly cromulant player.
Is he a better player than we currently have rostered for the #7 jersey right now? Absolutely. No doubt about that.
But he is not the player we need stylistically. He and wighton paired, especially with no ball playing in the fullback role at this point, would be a death sentence for our football team imo. I dont care who you have coaching them, you could get peak Mick Crawley back here, mate him with Tim Sheens and their love child is extremely unlikely to get points out of CNK-Wighton-Brown at the attacking fulcrum
The only way it works is if Wighton is moving out of the halves... to which i say, with Brown at 5/8th, no halfback and Wighton playing in the lock position, we've done nothing more than shuffle deck chairs on the titanic and probably compromised our cap flexibility in doing so
Botman wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 7:20 pm
It maybe that Dylan Brown comes here and with extra responsbility he grows an extra leg and ends up amazing... but i would suggest it's highly unlikely.
Dylan Brown is a player who has so far in his career shown to have virtually no creative quivvers in his bow. He hasn't shown any ability to ball play, he's been ordinary to terrible any time he's forced into being a primary kicker, be it for territory or attacking kicks, he's not a difference maker as a ball runner. Frawley and Williams are objectively better creators than he is (not players overall, creators)
He's a good NRL footballer, im not saying the guy isnt talented or shouldnt be in FG. There is a role for this sort of player at many clubs where they have a lot of creative spark and energy in other spine positions, and who are well coached so their players know their roles and play within them. If you want a player who will support the ball carrier, is an OK ball runner, who will get the ball out nice and early to his ball playing fullback and will stump up and make his tackles, then he's a perfectly cromulant player.
Is he a better player than we currently have rostered for the #7 jersey right now? Absolutely. No doubt about that.
But he is not the player we need stylistically. He and wighton paired, especially with no ball playing in the fullback role at this point, would be a death sentence for our football team imo. I dont care who you have coaching them, you could get peak Mick Crawley back here, mate him with Tim Sheens and their love child is extremely unlikely to get points out of CNK-Wighton-Brown at the attacking fulcrum
The only way it works is if Wighton is moving out of the halves... to which i say, with Brown at 5/8th, no halfback and Wighton playing in the lock position, we've done nothing more than shuffle deck chairs on the titanic and probably compromised our cap flexibility in doing so
I agree with most of what you say - apart from that arrows go in quivers and are then shot from a bow... also that he's better than what we have in our #7. I'm sure you've seen this before, but it's worth reminding people:
If its true that Sivili has signed with Souths and Sia is retiring its a bit sad we didn't hear about it before the game
Kind of feels like the season ended and the members weren't part of it in a way.
No farewell to retiring/leaving players, no video presentation even on the website, no " thanks for the support see you next year".
It kind of feels like they forgot us in a way
MrPosh wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 9:27 pm
I think you've got to move Wighton to 13. Puts and extra playmaking option in the middle of the park, which lets CNK focus on supporting the ball runner and defending.
Brown at six would work very well with this, as long as someone with a kicking game plays at seven.
From a physical standpoint I like Wighton at 13. I'm just not sure it's a good fit for him mentally. Pretty tough position to play when you're expected to be a ball playing option and know when to inject yourself. The really quality ballplaying 13 is a bit of a dead art since the days of Scott Hill, Travis Norton and Nik Kosef. Wade Graham would be an exception. My fear would be Wighton goes the Whitehead route and finesses his way through 80 minutes 75% of the time. It's not effective in the modern game.
MrPosh wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 9:27 pm
I think you've got to move Wighton to 13. Puts and extra playmaking option in the middle of the park, which lets CNK focus on supporting the ball runner and defending.
Brown at six would work very well with this, as long as someone with a kicking game plays at seven.
From a physical standpoint I like Wighton at 13. I'm just not sure it's a good fit for him mentally. Pretty tough position to play when you're expected to be a ball playing option and know when to inject yourself. The really quality ballplaying 13 is a bit of a dead art since the days of Scott Hill, Travis Norton and Nik Kosef. Wade Graham would be an exception. My fear would be Wighton goes the Whitehead route and finesses his way through 80 minutes 75% of the time. It's not effective in the modern game.
He has the physicality to match up to Murray or Radley as a worst case scenario. Ball playing is the natural evolution (or a revolution, I suppose) of that type of player. I think Wighton could be the point of that arrow in Aus and that would give the team a real edge.
We still love a ball-playing loose forward in my half of the world - although I do recall a time when David Waite picked five or six of them for GB.
Have to admit that I haven't seen a whole lot of brown and when I have, I haven't really noticed him which speaks volumes to what you are all saying but I reckon this could work. The reason being that we've gone within a whisker of winning a premiership with Sezer in this side and made the prelims with George. Anyone who thinks that was achieved on the back of either of their creativity is having a bubble bath. I think there are points in this side. I think timoko is a freak. Savage looked v dangerous. rapana is always testing. To me our kicking game is our biggest liability. While jack is getting better, it's still barely first grade standard. Having played as a half his whole life, youd have to think he'd be a better kicker than jack or at least have the capacity to develop it. If his kicking game is better than jacks then it's a step in the right direction.
MrPosh wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 9:27 pm
I think you've got to move Wighton to 13. Puts and extra playmaking option in the middle of the park, which lets CNK focus on supporting the ball runner and defending.
Brown at six would work very well with this, as long as someone with a kicking game plays at seven.
From a physical standpoint I like Wighton at 13. I'm just not sure it's a good fit for him mentally. Pretty tough position to play when you're expected to be a ball playing option and know when to inject yourself. The really quality ballplaying 13 is a bit of a dead art since the days of Scott Hill, Travis Norton and Nik Kosef. Wade Graham would be an exception. My fear would be Wighton goes the Whitehead route and finesses his way through 80 minutes 75% of the time. It's not effective in the modern game.
JAck Wighton is a "rip in" kind of player. He relishes the contest and the contact. The last thing I would ever associate him with, is finessing his way through a game. 13 would be a lot simpler for him than 6, put it that way. It's the playmaking pressure that confuses his.
MrPosh wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 9:27 pm
I think you've got to move Wighton to 13. Puts and extra playmaking option in the middle of the park, which lets CNK focus on supporting the ball runner and defending.
Brown at six would work very well with this, as long as someone with a kicking game plays at seven.
From a physical standpoint I like Wighton at 13. I'm just not sure it's a good fit for him mentally. Pretty tough position to play when you're expected to be a ball playing option and know when to inject yourself. The really quality ballplaying 13 is a bit of a dead art since the days of Scott Hill, Travis Norton and Nik Kosef. Wade Graham would be an exception. My fear would be Wighton goes the Whitehead route and finesses his way through 80 minutes 75% of the time. It's not effective in the modern game.
JAck Wighton is a "rip in" kind of player. He relishes the contest and the contact. The last thing I would ever associate him with, is finessing his way through a game. 13 would be a lot simpler for him than 6, put it that way. It's the playmaking pressure that confuses his.
The ball playing between 6 and 13 is very different. Link vs create. Wighton would be a good fit. The only problem is his contract value is too much for a 13.
-TW- wrote: ↑September 3, 2021, 8:01 pm
I'm glad we've realised we need to turn the squad over, if we went into 22 with the bulk of the same players you'd have to ask how serious we are about winning this thing
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Absolutely - needs to be a big broom swung with vigour!
If most on here agree that Dylan Brown is not an organising half and is not we need as a #7.
Why can’t Ricky see this ?
I mean let’s get real here, as long as my backside points to the ground Jack is our #6. Ricky WILL not move Jack. So we need a #7. DBrown is not our #7 yet we keep getting stories and headlines linking us to these players.
What are the coaching staff thinking ?
Is it Schneider ?
Well if it’s yes we should have given him X amount of games instead of wheeling out Sam and Matt.
My head is spinning.
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-PJ- wrote: ↑September 4, 2021, 11:40 am
If most on here agree that Dylan Brown is not an organising half and is not we need as a #7.
Why can’t Ricky see this ?
I mean let’s get real here, as long as my backside points to the ground Jack is our #6. Ricky WILL not move Jack. So we need a #7. DBrown is not our #7 yet we keep getting stories and headlines linking us to these players.
What are the coaching staff thinking ?
Is it Schneider ?
Well if it’s yes we should have given him X amount of games instead of wheeling out Sam and Matt.
My head is spinning.
My head has been spinning on this as well. Just put him in more and get the experience going? There is obviously something going on behind the scenes I'm missing and they are holding him back for a reason, but you didn't see the Roosters do that with Sam Walker (who is younger than him).
-PJ- wrote: ↑April 14, 2024, 9:07 pm
I thought it went really good, now let’s go get some soft serve.
Havilli was a good back up who appeared to try hard and do his best when asked to step up. He wasn’t a game changer and didn’t carry us to great success on his back. I wish him every success at South’s and in life in general but this is a good move for the raiders - a lot of other players that aren’t up to it also need to go regardless of how nice they are or how hard they try.
It's different coaching philosophies and players. Trent Robinson is managing Sam Walker every game, week to week. The outcome is he gets experience but the downside is there's no consistency at all for Walker or the squad. Some weeks Walker is starting and playing the full 80 and other weeks he's on the bench for most of the game.
Part of the reason Robinson can do that is he has backups in top form that all seem to be comfortable being shuffled around every week. There's players fitting into roles rather than playing their game. There seems to be no ego in it at all. They're not going to win a comp doing this but it's going to speed development along for next year as long as Walker doesn't get badly injured. He cops little injuries all the time because he's a kid without a first grade body.
Ricky tends to nurse players into it through reserve grade and injury call ups. Unless they are just making up the numbers he starts them in a proper role. You're there to play 7 and you're going to play 80 until you lose your spot. Reserve grade not being there has taken away that safety net for him so if he was bringing someone in I'd say he feels like it's asking a kid to solve the adult squads problems when he's already got 26 and 30 year old halves that on their day have been able to do the job we need.
Lastly Walker and Schneider are just not at the same level. Walker is exceptional. In 2 years he could be playing origin.
cat wrote:If its true that Sivili has signed with Souths and Sia is retiring its a bit sad we didn't hear about it before the game
Kind of feels like the season ended and the members weren't part of it in a way.
No farewell to retiring/leaving players, no video presentation even on the website, no " thanks for the support see you next year".
It kind of feels like they forgot us in a way
Hey look at it this way, you can either view this from a positive lens, or you can keep bitching about the club.
I look at this as history being made. The #1 Raiders supporters site broke the announcement before the club did. You can get your Raiders news here first!
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cat wrote:If its true that Sivili has signed with Souths and Sia is retiring its a bit sad we didn't hear about it before the game
Kind of feels like the season ended and the members weren't part of it in a way.
No farewell to retiring/leaving players, no video presentation even on the website, no " thanks for the support see you next year".
It kind of feels like they forgot us in a way
Hey look at it this way, you can either view this from a positive lens, or you can keep bitching about the club.
I look at this as history being made. The #1 Raiders supporters site broke the announcement before the club did. You can get your Raiders news here first!
I think you will find that Tom Logan from the media team went to Qld as part of the bubble, but Ben and John are back here and like the rest of us not able to go into the office.
These sort of videos are probably very hard to put together from home.