Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by BadnMean »

hrundi89 wrote: October 13, 2021, 11:38 am
Settle petal...
If you read up, I've already settled that with the Bot.

Champ.

;)
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by afgtnk »

julian87 wrote: October 12, 2021, 4:21 pm
afgtnk wrote: October 12, 2021, 2:37 pm
mongoose wrote: October 12, 2021, 8:56 am
TongueFTW wrote: October 11, 2021, 7:51 am
afgtnk wrote: October 10, 2021, 8:33 pm Fogarty is at best a solid player. A large downgrade on George Williams, which was to be expected. Having Crawley back will hopefully help out to mitigate that loss. His goal kicking ability and experience in leading a team is definitely a plus.

Granted there weren't many options immediately available to us, so I hope that the club still has a more permanent solution on the agenda, and retains the capability to strike when possible. I really want to see a concerted effort to have a kid brought up from within.

A lot of people are bringing up 2016, 2019 and so on, but this isn't the same team. We don't have BJ, Nicko, or Bateman, Rapa is past his prime, Hodgo and Whitehead are ageing and may also be past it, Croker is shot. It's apples and oranges. A lot rests on how our outside backs develop, but really I don't think one move in the market is enough at this stage.
Agree with this. It’s a very different side. Next season will very much depend on how our young outside backs develop their game. Our attack needs to be much better, but the thing is, we didn’t even “grindball” effectively this year. Numerous games where we conceded 30+ points, compared to 2019 and 2020 where it was rare. The side clearly wasn’t fit enough, and not making the extra plays in defence required.

I think there is a lot of revisionist history being applied to George Williams. He was an excellent player. Remember last year we lost the strike of BJ, and didn’t have Bateman for most of the season. Williams was a large part of why we got to the preliminary, and his deficiencies have been greatly exaggerated since his departure. Had an excellent short kicking game, support play, decent ball playing, and was developing his combination with Wighton. His defence was top tier for a half. Fogarty is a solid player, probably the best of all the options we had, but let’s not pretend he is better for the side than George Williams was, purely on field.
Hopefully Fogarty can fix out long kicking game a bit cause G Williams was horrible in that department and Wighton's is erratic to say the least.
Williams' long kicking game was solid last season.
Define solid.

George Williams long kicking game consisted of 30-40 metre chip kicks. His short kicking game held up but his long kicking game was never good enough as a halfback, as he's not a halfback.
Lol!

Still tooting that horn, all by yourself. Bless.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by afgtnk »

Fogarty's comparisons to Townsend are pretty apt, tbh. Not much in it, apart from a few hundred thousand k.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Raiders666 »

afgtnk wrote: October 13, 2021, 8:25 pm Fogarty's comparisons to Townsend are pretty apt, tbh. Not much in it, apart from a few hundred thousand k.
If only we got Tigers player of the year Luke Brookes
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by afgtnk »

Yes, Brooks did win the Wests Tigers' POTY. Very observant of you.

Agree, would be a better signing than both. We've got Fogarty now though, so you really ought to come to terms with that.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by FROG »

afgtnk wrote: October 13, 2021, 8:18 pm
julian87 wrote: October 12, 2021, 4:21 pm
afgtnk wrote: October 12, 2021, 2:37 pm
mongoose wrote: October 12, 2021, 8:56 am
TongueFTW wrote: October 11, 2021, 7:51 am

Agree with this. It’s a very different side. Next season will very much depend on how our young outside backs develop their game. Our attack needs to be much better, but the thing is, we didn’t even “grindball” effectively this year. Numerous games where we conceded 30+ points, compared to 2019 and 2020 where it was rare. The side clearly wasn’t fit enough, and not making the extra plays in defence required.

I think there is a lot of revisionist history being applied to George Williams. He was an excellent player. Remember last year we lost the strike of BJ, and didn’t have Bateman for most of the season. Williams was a large part of why we got to the preliminary, and his deficiencies have been greatly exaggerated since his departure. Had an excellent short kicking game, support play, decent ball playing, and was developing his combination with Wighton. His defence was top tier for a half. Fogarty is a solid player, probably the best of all the options we had, but let’s not pretend he is better for the side than George Williams was, purely on field.
Hopefully Fogarty can fix out long kicking game a bit cause G Williams was horrible in that department and Wighton's is erratic to say the least.
Williams' long kicking game was solid last season.
Define solid.

George Williams long kicking game consisted of 30-40 metre chip kicks. His short kicking game held up but his long kicking game was never good enough as a halfback, as he's not a halfback.
Lol!

Still tooting that horn, all by yourself. Bless.
Jules is spot on here. G willy was at his best taking on the line, his support play was good and defence above average for a half. Jack has a far superior long kicking game than his which says plenty. I'm not saying that fog will be better or worse I'm just pointing out that g willys long kicking game was barely first grade standard. Its not why anyone rates the bloke and with good reason.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by dubby »

I don't understand why we offered him $400k when he was on $200k ish at the Titans?

If not for us he'd be playing Q Cup next year. Surely we didn't need to pay overs for a 27 year old rookie.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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afgtnk wrote: October 13, 2021, 11:55 pm Yes, Brooks did win the Wests Tigers' POTY. Very observant of you.

Agree, would be a better signing than both. We've got Fogarty now though, so you really ought to come to terms with that.
Oh you keep tooting that horn all by yourself haha...Bless
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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dubby wrote: October 14, 2021, 5:29 am I don't understand why we offered him $400k when he was on $200k ish at the Titans?

If not for us he'd be playing Q Cup next year. Surely we didn't need to pay overs for a 27 year old rookie.
I can't read CT articles. Is that number confirmed? Some reports have mentioned 350k (just over a mill for 3 years). That's not really a lot for a FG halfback. That's decent value for your "solid" half, when you have 900k wrapped up in your x factor half.

It's also not so much we are hamstrung for making offers to anyone else in those future years.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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350k for an NRL half is not paying overs lol
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by gerg »

I thought some reports claimed he was on about 150k and had re-signed with Titans for about double that.
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Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by BJ »

gergreg wrote:I thought some reports claimed he was on about 150k and had re-signed with Titans for about double that.
Yep. He’d upgraded at Titans and we have further upgraded. Albeit at a low halfback wage.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by afgtnk »

FROG wrote: October 14, 2021, 5:12 am
afgtnk wrote: October 13, 2021, 8:18 pm
julian87 wrote: October 12, 2021, 4:21 pm
afgtnk wrote: October 12, 2021, 2:37 pm
mongoose wrote: October 12, 2021, 8:56 am

Hopefully Fogarty can fix out long kicking game a bit cause G Williams was horrible in that department and Wighton's is erratic to say the least.
Williams' long kicking game was solid last season.
Define solid.

George Williams long kicking game consisted of 30-40 metre chip kicks. His short kicking game held up but his long kicking game was never good enough as a halfback, as he's not a halfback.
Lol!

Still tooting that horn, all by yourself. Bless.
Jules is spot on here.
He's not. Good back and watch footage of last season.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Timbo »

The success of the Fogarty signing really comes down to one thing: what version of Jack Wighton shows up next year.

If it's Dally-M and Churchill winning Jack Wighton, it's a brilliant signing because he just needs to go through the motions, get decent fifth tackle short kicks away and organise while Wighton creates stuff out of nothing outside him.

If its 2021 worst follow up season to a Dally-M in history Jack Wighton, well, he's an upgrade on Williams but that's about it.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Botman »

Lets be very honest about this. Fogarty would not be in the top 8 halfbacks in the league
He's here simply because he's at least a competent NRL player and we simply do not have that on the roster... its possible he could come here, gel really well with the team and squad and take his game up another level, and may be with a squad refresh and better attacking structure with Crawley coming back, maybe we could make a big jump... but it's also possible this goes the other way. He could come here, not fit in and it could be a disaster.

That's the sort of player we've got here. He's likely just going to be a slightly below average but competent NRL halfback, unfortunately for us given the options available to us, that's the best that could be done. Any of the other names we speculated about here would have been in the similar level players.

So expectations need to be in line with that. This is not a silver bullet by any means
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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Raiders666 wrote: October 14, 2021, 6:20 am 350k for an NRL half is not paying overs lol
Considering he was already on circa $250k and set to play QLD Cup this year.....I think it is.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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dubby wrote: October 14, 2021, 11:21 am
Raiders666 wrote: October 14, 2021, 6:20 am 350k for an NRL half is not paying overs lol
Considering he was already on circa $250k and set to play QLD Cup this year.....I think it is.
Fair enough...I guess we will have to wait and see how he goes
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by dubby »

I hope he goes really well. Has to be better than what we already have.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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dubby wrote: October 14, 2021, 11:27 am I hope he goes really well. Has to be better than what we already have.
Surely
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by greeneyed »

I thought Fogarty was on $150k, but his new Titans deal upgraded that to $300k. The Raiders deal is reported at around $1 million to $1.2 million. So between $350k-$400k. $400k is the highest number I've heard. But either way, it isn't a huge upgrade - and something would have been needed to get him to change clubs. And even $400k is a budget half.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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Botman wrote: October 14, 2021, 10:15 am Lets be very honest about this. Fogarty would not be in the top 8 halfbacks in the league
He's here simply because he's at least a competent NRL player and we simply do not have that on the roster... its possible he could come here, gel really well with the team and squad and take his game up another level, and may be with a squad refresh and better attacking structure with Crawley coming back, maybe we could make a big jump... but it's also possible this goes the other way. He could come here, not fit in and it could be a disaster.

That's the sort of player we've got here. He's likely just going to be a slightly below average but competent NRL halfback, unfortunately for us given the options available to us, that's the best that could be done. Any of the other names we speculated about here would have been in the similar level players.

So expectations need to be in line with that. This is not a silver bullet by any means
I’ll be judging him less for what he does individually, and more by what he allows others to do.

If he can free up Wighton to return to form, tick. If he can properly utilise CHN and outside backs, tick. If he can improve our long kicking game, tick. If he can kick goals at 70+%, tick.

He’s never going to a dally M player, but he is a key cog in unlocking the machine, that’s his value.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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And I’ll be honest, the above really shouldn’t be that hard for a serviceable genuine 7. A lot of our issues in recent years with those areas had been because we have been trying to wedge a second 5/8 in the role who aren’t actually all that good at those roles (regardless of individual talent as a 6, ie George and Sezer), or the genuine 7 is well past his best, which wasn’t all that great in the first place in sammy.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Rick »

I don’t think we can just look at it and say Fogarty is not in the top 8 halfbacks. For me that is somewhat irrelevant unless you look at the spine holistically;

1- CNK / Savage
6- Wighton
7- Fogarty
9- Hodgson / Starling

Is that in the top 8 spines? It’s hard to tell at the moment but they have the potential to be there depending on form.


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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Matt »

dubby wrote: October 14, 2021, 5:29 am I don't understand why we offered him $400k when he was on $200k ish at the Titans?

If not for us he'd be playing Q Cup next year. Surely we didn't need to pay overs for a 27 year old rookie.
His 2yr Titans extension was 300-350k a yr, thats why
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: October 14, 2021, 11:47 am I thought Fogarty was on $150k, but his new Titans deal upgraded that to $300k. The Raiders deal is reported at around $1 million to $1.2 million. So between $350k-$400k. $400k is the highest number I've heard. But either way, it isn't a huge upgrade - and something would have been needed to get him to change clubs. And even $400k is a budget half.
100% GE.
I still believe, had it been 500K, we were still getting a good deal there. When you look at the numbers of Fog vs Williams (posted previously), for 100K cheaper, you appear to be getting a very similar player. So at 350-400K, we are laughing.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Matt »

Coastalraider wrote: October 14, 2021, 11:50 am
Botman wrote: October 14, 2021, 10:15 am Lets be very honest about this. Fogarty would not be in the top 8 halfbacks in the league
He's here simply because he's at least a competent NRL player and we simply do not have that on the roster... its possible he could come here, gel really well with the team and squad and take his game up another level, and may be with a squad refresh and better attacking structure with Crawley coming back, maybe we could make a big jump... but it's also possible this goes the other way. He could come here, not fit in and it could be a disaster.

That's the sort of player we've got here. He's likely just going to be a slightly below average but competent NRL halfback, unfortunately for us given the options available to us, that's the best that could be done. Any of the other names we speculated about here would have been in the similar level players.

So expectations need to be in line with that. This is not a silver bullet by any means
I’ll be judging him less for what he does individually, and more by what he allows others to do.

If he can free up Wighton to return to form, tick. If he can properly utilise CHN and outside backs, tick. If he can improve our long kicking game, tick. If he can kick goals at 70+%, tick.

He’s never going to a dally M player, but he is a key cog in unlocking the machine, that’s his value.
Coastalraider wrote: October 14, 2021, 11:52 am And I’ll be honest, the above really shouldn’t be that hard for a serviceable genuine 7. A lot of our issues in recent years with those areas had been because we have been trying to wedge a second 5/8 in the role who aren’t actually all that good at those roles (regardless of individual talent as a 6, ie George and Sezer), or the genuine 7 is well past his best, which wasn’t all that great in the first place in sammy.
@Botman, I think you are under selling him a little, because I think you could argue him in the top 8, but I have him at 9, and Id call that middle grouping "average". When you talk about 7s, there arent that many.
1. Cleary
2. DCE
3. Hughes (and even then Id he is a 6, but system)
4. ARey
5. Moses
(6a. Keary depending on if you see him as a 6 or 7)

I think thats where the gap starts:
(6b. Sam Walker - looks to have the talent to join the top group, but Ill wait for him to prove it in yr 2, and its him or Keary, not both, coz the other is a 5/8.)
7. Ben Hunt - a guy who cant seem to decide if he is a good 7 or not.
8. Pearce - plays too sideways these days, but still quality.
9. Fogerty
10. CHT/SJ - One is a 6, the other plays 7. I relegate SJ coz he is out 1/4 of the season.

Last batch, I think this could be in almost any order:
11. Townsy/Dearden
12. Brooks/ Hastings
13. Moylan/ Hynes/ Trindall - Always injured, or Unproven.
14. Avo/ Burton - Unproven, and could easily be higher
15. Sexton - Unproven rookie, even if they let Fog go so he could start
16. Taafe/ Hawkins/ Dawkins - Unproven rookies

As for Coastal's input, I think he does all those things, because they are the things he did at Titans. So his role doesnt have to change.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Raiders666 »

Brooks is In the upper echelons Matt... The guy is a fantastic player, Just ask his only fan Afghks
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by BJ »

Raiders666 wrote:Brooks is In the upper echelons Matt... The guy is a fantastic player, Just ask his only fan Afghks
Just don’t ask his Tigers teammates.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

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BJ wrote: October 14, 2021, 3:29 pm
Raiders666 wrote:Brooks is In the upper echelons Matt... The guy is a fantastic player, Just ask his only fan Afghks
Just don’t ask his Tigers teammates.
Or most Tigers fans
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by gerg »

@matt I think Ben Hunt had an excellent season, which was completely stuffed by breaking or fracturing his leg. Not sure whether it was the captaincy or the coach but he actually looked the best he has in years.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Chicka Chicka Chicka »

I take it the potential Hodgo shift to the Titans story has run its course then?
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Raiders_Pat »

gergreg wrote: October 14, 2021, 4:23 pm @matt I think Ben Hunt had an excellent season, which was completely stuffed by breaking or fracturing his leg. Not sure whether it was the captaincy or the coach but he actually looked the best he has in years.
I'd say it would have to be partly due to coaching, he debuted as a five eight and developed as a halfback under Griffin, and those early years were probably his best years.
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

Chicka Chicka Chicka wrote: October 14, 2021, 4:37 pm I take it the potential Hodgo shift to the Titans story has run its course then?
Spoke too soon

apparently we have given him permission to negotiate , with the Tigers , not Titans though
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by greeneyed »

‘Of the same ilk’: Raiders legend explains why Ricky has finally found his halfback

The 2021 season was a shemozzle from start to finish. But all is not lost, says club legend Glenn Lazarus, with 2022 is set to bring new fortunes to the Green Machine. Lazarus believes Fogarty will thrive under his new coach because they’re such similar players.

“They’re of the same ilk,” Lazarus said. “Fogarty looks like he’s a really good director, probably not as good as Ricky but he directs teams around and has a really good kicking game.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 9bdc692d88
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Re: Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

Post by Raiders Lime Milk »

greeneyed wrote: October 20, 2021, 1:53 pm ‘Of the same ilk’: Raiders legend explains why Ricky has finally found his halfback

The 2021 season was a shemozzle from start to finish. But all is not lost, says club legend Glenn Lazarus, with 2022 is set to bring new fortunes to the Green Machine. Lazarus believes Fogarty will thrive under his new coach because they’re such similar players.

“They’re of the same ilk,” Lazarus said. “Fogarty looks like he’s a really good director, probably not as good as Ricky but he directs teams around and has a really good kicking game.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 9bdc692d88
Black Austin, Adam Elliot, Jack Wighting... any danger of these clowns spelling the players' names right? Amazed Jarrod Crocker isn't in there.
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