Salary cap issues

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Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

So I've seen multiple reports now that we are having salary cap issues. Can someone please explain to me how this is possible?
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by -TW- »

What reports?

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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

The Canberra Raiders' bid for Adam Elliott is set to severely hamstrung by the club's off-field and salary cap position: https://www.zerotackle.com/raiders-purs ... da-110979/
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

I've seen it elsewhere also...If we can't afford Adam freaking Elliott we have totally screwed things up
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by -TW- »

Zero tackle is hardly a reliable source

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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I can't see how we could be hard up against the salary cap unless we've restructured some contracts to front load. We've let go of Williams, Scott and James have only really replaced Scott's salary with the signing of Fogarty. We've still got spots to fill but we also didn't re-sign a number of players - Lui, Havili, Aekins...
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Botman »

It's in our best interests to promote the fact we have little cap space
And certainly the club has ballsed up the cap badly in the past and could have done so again

However, when you look at players coming in and out, and applying common sense, its really not believable imo, that we're hard on the cap unless they've got some signings over the line but have announced them yet.
I chalk it up as club wanting that message to out there because they aren't interested in players or managers looking to use cap space as leverage in negotiations with us and other clubs

But i could certainly be wrong.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by -PJ- »

There’s no way we have salary cap issues, right ?
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Coastalraider »

I doubt we are in as bad shape as it sounds.

But…. Considering we need to replace a number of players in the top 30, and we have resigned and upgraded Savage, HSS, Timoko and Mooney for example, a chunk of that spare cash would have gone into this. Not all, but some.

Some of the players we sign from her on would likely be filling their minimum wage spots, not necessarily the spots/wages of lui, Sia, James for example.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by greeneyed »

The source for Zero Tackle was The Canberra Times in this case.

The Raiders don't have a lot of space in their salary cap to accommodate the 26-year-old, who has played 101 NRL games, plus it's believed there's a Wests Tigers contract on the table: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

But I think that's code for saying, we're not devoting any more dollars in our cap than "x".
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by julian87 »

I'm with GH. The club want that player to be 200k or less.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I must say, it would be very underwhelming to lose Williams, James, Scott, Havili, Lui and Soliola all in one year just to be replaced by Fogarty, Hola, Elliott and some Aekins-level plodder. I know that those guys are probably the best we can do out of who is available for next year but surely there are a few guys available from 2023 that we could agitate for an early release... we've done it before.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by bonehead »

Elliott was reportedly on 500k at the dogs which is a massive giggle, you couldn't have him on your books over half that.

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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

Who is the Aekins level player?
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Raiders666 wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:40 pm Who is the Aekins level player?
Nobody yet... I was painting a picture of what we would likely see if we don't pick up a significant upgrade between now and when we kick-off next year.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

Raiders_Pat wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:44 pm
Raiders666 wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:40 pm Who is the Aekins level player?
Nobody yet... I was painting a picture of what we would likely see if we don't pick up a significant upgrade between now and when we kick-off next year.
Oh I thought you were talking about Brett Mullins nephew...He actually looks the goods
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Raiders666 wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:52 pm
Raiders_Pat wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:44 pm
Raiders666 wrote: October 13, 2021, 12:40 pm Who is the Aekins level player?
Nobody yet... I was painting a picture of what we would likely see if we don't pick up a significant upgrade between now and when we kick-off next year.
Oh I thought you were talking about Brett Mullins nephew...He actually looks the goods
Nah, just counting top 30 recruits rather than development players. I think the development players we've recruited over the past few years have been great - we're doing really well in that department.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, can only reflect the calls above.

There is a difference between maxing out your cap vs maxing out how much you're willing to spend on a certain player.

I'm just glad there are no reports of multi-million dollar "warchests" which leads to teams like the Titans to sign the likes of Shannon Boyd, Bryce Cartwright and Ash Taylor to dud deals.

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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Roy Rover »

I refuse to believe this.

I think the club is playing their cards close to their chest by saying to Polkinghorne the cap is tight and instead of questioning them he has just reported it verbatim.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by RedRaider »

From a negotiating point of view I don't think there is anything wrong with saying the Raiders are up close to the cap limits. It will assist with player managers going over the top with payment requests. If the Raiders come out and say we have a lot of cap space then the player managers will inflate the asking price of players we are interested in. The salary cap is a juggle between staying within the cap and maintaining the core of players the Raiders see as critical to success.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Northern Raider »

"Salary cap issues" is code for saying the club doesn't want to over spend on a bog average player. Not going to compete with Tigers for his signature.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Raiders_Pat wrote: October 13, 2021, 11:55 am I must say, it would be very underwhelming to lose Williams, James, Scott, Havili, Lui and Soliola all in one year just to be replaced by Fogarty, Hola, Elliott and some Aekins-level plodder. I know that those guys are probably the best we can do out of who is available for next year but surely there are a few guys available from 2023 that we could agitate for an early release... we've done it before.
I am a firm believer that you need to refresh the squad every year; even when you have been successful. It is just way too easy to stagnate otherwise.

It stands to reason that if refresh needs to happen after a good season, then it most certainly needs to happen after a bad one.

Our business so far in trimming away some deadwood and bringing in a halfback is good, but I would probably feel much better if we could sign a quality FG standard second rower to round out our business.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by BadnMean »

Mickey_Raider wrote: October 14, 2021, 8:26 am
Raiders_Pat wrote: October 13, 2021, 11:55 am I must say, it would be very underwhelming to lose Williams, James, Scott, Havili, Lui and Soliola all in one year just to be replaced by Fogarty, Hola, Elliott and some Aekins-level plodder. I know that those guys are probably the best we can do out of who is available for next year but surely there are a few guys available from 2023 that we could agitate for an early release... we've done it before.
I am a firm believer that you need to refresh the squad every year; even when you have been successful. It is just way too easy to stagnate otherwise.

It stands to reason that if refresh needs to happen after a good season, then it most certainly needs to happen after a bad one.

Our business so far in trimming away some deadwood and bringing in a halfback is good, but I would probably feel much better if we could sign a quality FG standard second rower to round out our business.
Agree on the refresh. Every year we haven't done it, we've stunk for a season or 2 afterward.

All value bargain buys (Fogarty) and punts (Hola) so far, plus a few kids. We have a few spots left on the roster (I believe).

You'd like to think there's one more FG quality signing coming in. But it's not even November yet.

We must have some spare- there's also the strategy of waiting to see who wants out early next season (they're still talking about a transfer window)- or just await the inevitable off season atrocity produced options. Can make your dollar go a bit further that way.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

BadnMean wrote: October 14, 2021, 8:46 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: October 14, 2021, 8:26 am
Raiders_Pat wrote: October 13, 2021, 11:55 am I must say, it would be very underwhelming to lose Williams, James, Scott, Havili, Lui and Soliola all in one year just to be replaced by Fogarty, Hola, Elliott and some Aekins-level plodder. I know that those guys are probably the best we can do out of who is available for next year but surely there are a few guys available from 2023 that we could agitate for an early release... we've done it before.
I am a firm believer that you need to refresh the squad every year; even when you have been successful. It is just way too easy to stagnate otherwise.

It stands to reason that if refresh needs to happen after a good season, then it most certainly needs to happen after a bad one.

Our business so far in trimming away some deadwood and bringing in a halfback is good, but I would probably feel much better if we could sign a quality FG standard second rower to round out our business.
Agree on the refresh. Every year we haven't done it, we've stunk for a season or 2 afterward.

All value bargain buys (Fogarty) and punts (Hola) so far, plus a few kids. We have a few spots left on the roster (I believe).

You'd like to think there's one more FG quality signing coming in. But it's not even November yet.

We must have some spare- there's also the strategy of waiting to see who wants out early next season (they're still talking about a transfer window)- or just await the inevitable off season atrocity produced options. Can make your dollar go a bit further that way.
100% agree that you need to refresh the squad every year to stay competitive. I've been very critical in past years when we haven't been active in this area. I think Fogarty and Hola are good buys too. Just hope we see something a bit more exciting down the track.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by -TW- »

I don't think every year, but at least every 2-3 years

I think a rosters shelf life definitely caps out at 3 years. We held majority of the same squad from 2019-21 and saw at the back end of 21 it was going backwards, obvious outside influences as well

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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Matt »

I'm with the consensus on 'no way we have issues, but clubs playing cards close'.

Does this look about right to people:
OUTS:
George: 600K
Sia: I wanna say sub 350K
Lui: I wanna say sub 350K
Havili: I wanna say sub 350K
James: is it 200K a yr or 400K a yr?
Aekins: Low to min wage
Scott: 400K or 600K I've seen both?
Croker*: 600Kish
Total: Thats 1.8Mill* to 2.80Mill* depended on where they land in that scale.

INs:
Fog: 350K was the Titans 2yr extension offer. (for George)
Hola: Id think min wage or close to it. (for Sia)
#train and trial: Brock Gardner
Total: 500Kish

Upgrades:
Hoppa: Min wage top 30 from development (I believe - for Scott)
HSS: Low, but above min wage
Timoko: Low, but above min wage
Savage: Low, but above min wage (from SG Ball - for Aekins)
Mooney: Min wage top 30 (from SG Ball - for Lui)
Total: Approx 600K - remembering that 3 of them were out of the 30 to start the yr.

*Health pending

At worst we have 700K left with 2 spot to fill (James and Liva)
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Matt wrote: October 14, 2021, 1:29 pm I'm with the consensus on 'no way we have issues, but clubs playing cards close'.

Does this look about right to people:
OUTS:
George: 600K
Sia: I wanna say sub 350K
Lui: I wanna say sub 350K
Havili: I wanna say sub 350K
James: is it 200K a yr or 400K a yr?
Aekins: Low to min wage
Scott: 400K or 600K I've seen both?
Croker*: 600Kish
Total: Thats 1.8Mill* to 2.80Mill* depended on where they land in that scale.

INs:
Fog: 350K was the Titans 2yr extension offer. (for George)
Hola: Id think min wage or close to it. (for Sia)
#train and trial: Brock Gardner
Total: 500Kish

Upgrades:
Hoppa: Min wage top 30 from development (I believe - for Scott)
HSS: Low, but above min wage
Timoko: Low, but above min wage
Savage: Low, but above min wage (from SG Ball - for Aekins)
Mooney: Min wage top 30 (from SG Ball - for Lui)
Total: Approx 600K - remembering that 3 of them were out of the 30 to start the yr.

*Health pending

At worst we have 700K left with 2 spot to fill (James and Liva)
You'd think that we've got the cash spare to bring in a $500k+ recruit for next year. That's why I'm saying it would be underwhelming if we ended recruitment at Fogarty and Hola, besides a few squad fillers to make 30. You can save all the money you like under the cap but it's all for nothing if you don't spend it elsewhere.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Matt »

Raiders_Pat wrote: October 14, 2021, 1:40 pm
Matt wrote: October 14, 2021, 1:29 pm I'm with the consensus on 'no way we have issues, but clubs playing cards close'.

Does this look about right to people:
OUTS:
George: 600K
Sia: I wanna say sub 350K
Lui: I wanna say sub 350K
Havili: I wanna say sub 350K
James: is it 200K a yr or 400K a yr?
Aekins: Low to min wage
Scott: 400K or 600K I've seen both?
Croker*: 600Kish
Total: Thats 1.8Mill* to 2.80Mill* depended on where they land in that scale.

INs:
Fog: 350K was the Titans 2yr extension offer. (for George)
Hola: Id think min wage or close to it. (for Sia)
#train and trial: Brock Gardner
Total: 500Kish

Upgrades:
Hoppa: Min wage top 30 from development (I believe - for Scott)
HSS: Low, but above min wage
Timoko: Low, but above min wage
Savage: Low, but above min wage (from SG Ball - for Aekins)
Mooney: Min wage top 30 (from SG Ball - for Lui)
Total: Approx 600K - remembering that 3 of them were out of the 30 to start the yr.

*Health pending

At worst we have 700K left with 2 spot to fill (James and Liva)
You'd think that we've got the cash spare to bring in a $500k+ recruit for next year. That's why I'm saying it would be underwhelming if we ended recruitment at Fogarty and Hola, besides a few squad fillers to make 30. You can save all the money you like under the cap but it's all for nothing if you don't spend it elsewhere.
I think its more than 700K left for 2 players. So Id argue that we have room for a squad filler and a guy who is pretty decent. All those young guys we upgraded are the ones who are "squad fillers" in your top 30, in reality. Even if a few should see decent game time.
Now, Im not a fan of Elliot, BUT, I think if you got a guy like that on 'squad filler' $$$ its a massive cap win.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Matt wrote: October 14, 2021, 2:00 pm
I think its more than 700K left for 2 players. So Id argue that we have room for a squad filler and a guy who is pretty decent. All those young guys we upgraded are the ones who are "squad fillers" in your top 30, in reality. Even if a few should see decent game time.
Now, Im not a fan of Elliot, BUT, I think if you got a guy like that on 'squad filler' $$$ its a massive cap win.
If we got Adam Elliot on say $200k plus brought in a backrower for $500-600k, I'd say that's a huge win for us. But we've got two spots left to fill in the top 30 - one will go to Trevilyan or a hooker recruit as we only have two hookers on the roster right now. Which means that we have one spot remaining unless we force somebody out. So I'm thinking any recruit under approx. $500k in value is underwhelming considering the money we've saved.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

Wouldn't Mullos Nephew be a top 30 signing?
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by greeneyed »

I'd say $600,000 is low for retention - not forgetting players will have escalation clauses in contracts.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by greeneyed »

Raiders666 wrote: October 14, 2021, 2:46 pm Wouldn't Mullos Nephew be a top 30 signing?
Given how the numbers have stacked up, no.
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Raiders666 »

greeneyed wrote: October 14, 2021, 3:04 pm
Raiders666 wrote: October 14, 2021, 2:46 pm Wouldn't Mullos Nephew be a top 30 signing?
Given how the numbers have stacked up, no.
Damn I was hoping he was good to go
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Matt »

Raiders666 wrote: October 14, 2021, 2:46 pm Wouldn't Mullos Nephew be a top 30 signing?
Development contract wasnt it?
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Re: Salary cap issues

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: October 14, 2021, 2:48 pm I'd say $600,000 is low for retention - not forgetting players will have escalation clauses in contracts.
That 700K isnt the figure GE, Id be fairly confident that its higher, buts its a worst case guess-timate
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