bonehead wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 5:58 am
Vossy reporting Raiders only have the Cotric cash if Hodgo goes
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How is this possible?
I told y'all that we would use the extra money from players leaving, to top up under-performers and club favourites. Money can disappear very, very quickly that way
Pieces of a great team there. Wish we had a standout contender for lock but will probably just go to Sutton to start the season. Would like to see Kris get more minutes in the back row
'I've got 17 blokes in that dressing room that are hurting'
bonehead wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 5:58 am
Vossy reporting Raiders only have the Cotric cash if Hodgo goes
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This is very, very concerning. I understand we upgraded some up and coming players, but GWilliams left, Scott, Ryan James, Dunamis, Havili and Sia retired, with only Fogarty (cheaper than G Williams), Elliott and Hola incoming. We haven't even been one of the clubs chasing a marquee player.
I'd love to have Cotric back at half his Bulldog's contract price. Semi unfortunately won't make the grade. Not good in the air and doesn't have the football smarts. Bailey I'm torn about as a new attacking coach may bring out the best in him but I haven't been impressed with him in the last 2 years. He's got pace but doesn't know how to use it. I haven't seen much of Anderson and Hopoate to comment.
Love4Noa wrote: ↑November 24, 2021, 8:43 pm
Simonson wouldn't have a single line break in his career.
He is the one to go.
He had eight just this season, which was the third most in the team. The myths and blatant falsehoods being peddled about Simonsson on here this year is ridiculous and bizarre.
Croker is first cab off the rank, followed by Rapana, by CNK.
How many of those 8 line breaks were clean line breaks and not just those “technical” line breaks where the player just falls over the try line out wide? I’d bet most (if not all) of his line breaks were effectively just that.
I know player contract values are held tightly, but I’d love to see some comparative breakdowns showing where various teams invest their caps. I’m thinking broad categories like back 3, centres, halves, back row, front row and reserves. It would be really interesting to see how they differ, what a successful formula looks like and where some clubs are over/under investing. It would bring a helpful perspective to a discussion like this to understand where we sit with our current cap space and investments.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean the back 5. In which case, like it or not CNK is easily the first picked.
Based on what exactly?
He's flat out making that back five right now in the view of many, and certainly not at fullback.
Ha. I understand there's a widespread and self-reinforcing view here that somehow CNK is on the outer and going to be shunted for an 18yo who's played two games, at fullback. OK. I just don't personally agree with that, and nor do I think it cuts any ice with the Raiders' coaching staff. They want someone who can organise a backline and a defence, and CNK is (in my view) being lambasted here simply because he doesn't apparently throw a cutout pass often enough.
I'm not his mum, so check this out:
The Kiwi fullback has been one of the Raiders’ best players since he made the move from the Warriors in 2019. After initially signing on a $130,000-a-year deal and having a breakout season, the silky mover signed a modest $330,000-a-year deal which runs out at the end of 2023. Although Nicoll-Klokstad suffered a neck injury and was predicted to be out for the season in May, he was back on the bench as early as August after a shock recovery from after spinal fusion surgery. Nicoll-Klokstad had similar metres-per-game to Tom Trbojevic and Dylan Edwards as well as having a better kick defusal percentage than Clint Gutherson, James Tedesco and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck since 2019. The Raiders will be hoping their star fullback will be back to his best in 2022 and the 26-year-old will be looking for a nice extension, with a well-deserved pay rise next season.
Agree with that or not, I reckon he would be the first named (provided Jarrod Croker isn't in the mix) and is a fair candidate for a future captaincy. Doresn't mean it's the right decision, just what I think is really obvious.
CNK at fullback isn't even a debate for me anymore, and many on here as well it seems.
We can't continue with him in the position, simple as that - especially with Crawley coming back in. Either he adapts to centre, or finds himself another club.
This is a rare time where I agree with you.
But for different reasons.
CNK isnt a fullback at the raiders because of the speed savage offers. We are devoid of speed (cotric doesnt fix that eh arguably makes it worse)...
If savage is injured or just loses game after game for us in the first 5 fielding kicks etc, maybe we switch back and let him develop on the wing. However for me, Savage should be given first nod at fullback if he can have a break out year, we can be playing with the big boys again.
Actually, that is in fact one of my reasons.
CNK is little to no threat running or passing the ball. You cannot keep playing him at fullback, especially given our current halves.
Love4Noa wrote: ↑November 24, 2021, 8:43 pm
Simonson wouldn't have a single line break in his career.
He is the one to go.
He had eight just this season, which was the third most in the team. The myths and blatant falsehoods being peddled about Simonsson on here this year is ridiculous and bizarre.
Croker is first cab off the rank, followed by Rapana, by CNK.
How many of those 8 line breaks were clean line breaks and not just those “technical” line breaks where the player just falls over the try line out wide? I’d bet most (if not all) of his line breaks were effectively just that.
Leave the goalposts where you found them, thanks. Not as if we had players breaking the line all over the place this season either, can ask the exact same question of others.
Last edited by afgtnk on November 25, 2021, 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
RichmondRaider wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 11:38 am
CNK will be fullback and rightly so.
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If that is the case, we'll be AT BEST, a pretender who cant hang with the big boys.
We'll get what we deserve if you're right.
I think you’re right.
I also think injury and suspension in the backline won’t hurt us as much as other clubs but not sure that is a great thing. Its more case that the gap between our starting side and our back up players isn’t huge and while that provides good depth and cover it limits our ceiling as we don’t have an out and out superstar 1-7 line up.
Love4Noa wrote: ↑November 24, 2021, 8:43 pm
Simonson wouldn't have a single line break in his career.
He is the one to go.
He had eight just this season, which was the third most in the team. The myths and blatant falsehoods being peddled about Simonsson on here this year is ridiculous and bizarre.
Croker is first cab off the rank, followed by Rapana, by CNK.
How many of those 8 line breaks were clean line breaks and not just those “technical” line breaks where the player just falls over the try line out wide? I’d bet most (if not all) of his line breaks were effectively just that.
Leave the goalposts where you found them, thanks. Not as if we had players breaking the line all over the place this season either, can ask the exact same question of others.
I didn't say we had players breaking the line all over the place, and yes we can ask the same question of others. It's basically a useless stat out of context.
A Bailey Simonssen line break is not the same as a Tom Trbojevic line break, where one simply falls over the try line out wide. Simonssen effectively beats no-one (the inside player throwing the cut out pass is the one beating the opposition). Trbojevic runs rings around the opposition like he's playing against under 8's.
Show me a clean Simonssen line break, where he's busted a tackle or hit a hole (not 2m out from the tryline), and found space. You'd be hard pressed to find 1 or 2 in his entire first grade career.
Last edited by Finchy on November 25, 2021, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RichmondRaider wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 11:38 am
CNK will be fullback and rightly so.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
If that is the case, we'll be AT BEST, a pretender who cant hang with the big boys.
We'll get what we deserve if you're right.
I think you’re right.
I also think injury and suspension in the backline won’t hurt us as much as other clubs but not sure that is a great thing. Its more case that the gap between our starting side and our back up players isn’t huge and while that provides good depth and cover it limits our ceiling as we don’t have an out and out superstar 1-7 line up.
You're all focussed on attack and neglecting what a **** show the defence was without CNK. He has good eye and directs players towards shortages in the defence. Some players in the backline had their defensive weaknesses exposed this year without him there to call for cover. He's a slo a pretty capable defender in his own right and doesn't shirk going in against bigger players, often bringing them down.
Savage is yet to prove he can get through a season without injury. He's already had two operations. Even then, he needs more experience in NSW Cup at fullback. Playing him on the wing in NRL will do nothing for his development.
Simonsson had a poor season in '21. I can see him making way for Cotric if Croker doesn't retire.
Some people talk about the weather. Others do something about it.
MEMBER NO.: 4500 (before they changed the numbering system).
RichmondRaider wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 11:38 am
CNK will be fullback and rightly so.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
If that is the case, we'll be AT BEST, a pretender who cant hang with the big boys.
We'll get what we deserve if you're right.
I think you’re right.
I also think injury and suspension in the backline won’t hurt us as much as other clubs but not sure that is a great thing. Its more case that the gap between our starting side and our back up players isn’t huge and while that provides good depth and cover it limits our ceiling as we don’t have an out and out superstar 1-7 line up.
You're all focussed on attack and neglecting what a **** show the defence was without CNK. He has good eye and directs players towards shortages in the defence. Some players in the backline had their defensive weaknesses exposed this year without him there to call for cover. He's a slo a pretty capable defender in his own right and doesn't shirk going in against bigger players, often bringing them down.
Savage is yet to prove he can get through a season without injury. He's already had two operations. Even then, he needs more experience in NSW Cup at fullback. Playing him on the wing in NRL will do nothing for his development.
Simonsson had a poor season in '21. I can see him making way for Cotric if Croker doesn't retire.
This is a really good point, but I don’t think I can watch another season of CNK getting absolutely dominated and driven back at the start of each set forcing our team to start on the back foot.
CNK made **** all difference to the defence. when he came back. We still leaked considerably. The main issue was our fitness and middle all along, especially at the back end of games. Fix that and our defence is fixed.
Mahoney is off to the Dogs. So us potentially taking a bad contract off their hands allows the Dogs to sign a free agent in a spot we're short. In this type of situation sometimes the hardest thing is just to say it's not a spot we're particularlly short and we've already got a good chunk of the cap committed there.
yurithe1 wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 12:24 pm
You're all focussed on attack and neglecting what a **** show the defence was without CNK. He has good eye and directs players towards shortages in the defence. Some players in the backline had their defensive weaknesses exposed this year without him there to call for cover. He's a slo a pretty capable defender in his own right and doesn't shirk going in against bigger players, often bringing them down.
Savage is yet to prove he can get through a season without injury. He's already had two operations. Even then, he needs more experience in NSW Cup at fullback. Playing him on the wing in NRL will do nothing for his development.
Simonsson had a poor season in '21. I can see him making way for Cotric if Croker doesn't retire.
Im not neglecting his defence
I've said countless times he's an excellent defensive and positional fullback. I dont believe this team, the way it's built, with it's lack of strike power and ball playing through the spine... this team cannot afford to have a complete ball stopper at fullback. There are opportunities going begging with him at fullback because he has absolutely no ability to promote the ball and he's not nearly a good enough tackle breaker to create that way
We need someone who can create and promote the football.
He is a very, VERY good fullback in every area but the one area that is IMO, far and away the most important area.
Love4Noa wrote: ↑November 24, 2021, 8:43 pm
Simonson wouldn't have a single line break in his career.
He is the one to go.
He had eight just this season, which was the third most in the team. The myths and blatant falsehoods being peddled about Simonsson on here this year is ridiculous and bizarre.
Croker is first cab off the rank, followed by Rapana, by CNK.
How many of those 8 line breaks were clean line breaks and not just those “technical” line breaks where the player just falls over the try line out wide? I’d bet most (if not all) of his line breaks were effectively just that.
I suspect most of them are falling over the line. For a while it's been talked about his pace, I for one, can not remember him ever making a clean break, or being in open field. Not once. Ever.
yurithe1 wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 12:49 pm
You call it a myth, I call it a fact. We'll see who's right next year.
..... you don't have to wait until next year. It happened this year. Proven. I was right.
People claimed CNK's absence was the main cause of our defence issues. He came back - they weren't fixed. Spare me any 'he came back from major injury' as well - it's his so call called organisation from the back that was allegedly his huge strength, that supposedly was making all the difference, and that is unaffected by injury.
Myth well and truly busted. Either he plays in the outside backs/moves on, or we're in for more pain.
I'd like to see a type of 'role-share' between Savage and CNK. Put Savage on the wing for defence and then give him a roving role in attack, like we saw with Tommy for the Blues.
gergreg wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 1:34 pm
I'd like to see a type of 'role-share' between Savage and CNK. Put Savage on the wing for defence and then give him a roving role in attack, like we saw with Tommy for the Blues.
That could work. He could learn on the job from CNK.
Some people talk about the weather. Others do something about it.
MEMBER NO.: 4500 (before they changed the numbering system).
I think it's very good for the culture and reputation of the club if players want to return. I think we got a bit too comfortable after 2019 and forgot that we consistently, always, alllways, need to be kicking against the stigma that that as a club we can't attract players and that no one wants to live in Canberra. Would love Cotric back, and if rumours are true, Paulo too.
gergreg wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 1:34 pm
I'd like to see a type of 'role-share' between Savage and CNK. Put Savage on the wing for defence and then give him a roving role in attack, like we saw with Tommy for the Blues.
That could work. He could learn on the job from CNK.
I like this option too, HOWEVER, that is tough if CNK is at centre OR if Cotric and Rapa are your wingers.
The way we handle/squander a salary cap, Id hope they would be keeping a solid warchest to stave of home sickness for the kid that showed me more in 5 minutes of football than most of our plodders have shown in half a decade... Dont need to mention his name hey Fred.
Question wrote: ↑November 25, 2021, 3:19 pm
The way we handle/squander a salary cap, Id hope they would be keeping a solid warchest to stave of home sickness for the kid that showed me more in 5 minutes of football than most of our plodders have shown in half a decade... Dont need to mention his name hey Fred.
The Wonder Years… I got your cryptic clue
