POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

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Who should be fullback in the Canberra Raiders' strongest team for 2022?

Albert Hopoate
2
4%
Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
33
59%
Jordan Rapana
0
No votes
Xavier Savage
21
38%
Jack Wighton
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 56

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greeneyed
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POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by greeneyed »

POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

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What's your strongest possible 2022 Canberra Raiders line up? That's what we are asking the readers of The Greenhouse. We're looking at the "Locks and contenders" for each position in the team in a special series of articles. Some players have clearly locked down their spot but we're looking at all the contenders for places in the Green Machine's top 17. For contentious positions, we're supplementing the discussion with a series of polls... and in the first of those polls, we're asking: Who should be fill the No. 1 jersey in 2022?

Remember, we're looking at the strongest possible team, irrespective of injuries.

Click here to read more: Locks and contenders: Fullback

You have ONE vote in this poll.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

I'm going Savage. We don't have a huge amount of x-factor in our halves that's going to consistently put pressure on the opposition defensive line. Wighton is more the type of player to exploit weaknesses than create them. From what I saw of Savage at FB he could potentially be that threat that opens things up for the team.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by greeneyed »

As per the article, I'm voting CNK.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by RedRaider »

CNK for me. Usually Strong under the high ball and in the last line with good positional play. Off season sprint training has improved his speed and I want to see how he uses it.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by dubby »

Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
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If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by -PJ- »

CNK
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

It's a loaded Q, and I get why.

I've gone Savage, because I think the excitement, potential and need for experience is too much to ignore.

HOWEVER... Ricky won't be doing it. 1stly, sounds like Savage won't necessarily be 100% in Rd1, and he bloods young players slowly. So I expect it to be CNK.

Not a knock on CNK either. But his style at FB is not really the go in the modern game. His ball playing would need to increase significantly to adapt.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

dubby wrote: January 5, 2022, 2:53 pm Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
I think all that is true. However, I subscribe to the 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Finchy »

Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:10 pm
dubby wrote: January 5, 2022, 2:53 pm Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
I think all that is true. However, I subscribe to the 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.
But he didn’t say he’s not old enough, he said he’s not ready for a full season. Considering he lasted all of 1.5 games before getting injured, I’d say that’s fair. His body isn’t ready for first-grade in the long term, and skill-wise he probably isn’t ready yet either. He’s just fast.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

Finchy wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:33 pm
Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:10 pm
dubby wrote: January 5, 2022, 2:53 pm Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
I think all that is true. However, I subscribe to the 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.
But he didn’t say he’s not old enough, he said he’s not ready for a full season. Considering he lasted all of 1.5 games before getting injured, I’d say that’s fair. His body isn’t ready for first-grade in the long term, and skill-wise he probably isn’t ready yet either. He’s just fast.
The implications are at his age his body isn't ready. So my statement stands.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by gangrenous »

So you subscribe to “he’s not physically ready, break him anyway”?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Finchy »

Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 4:40 pm
Finchy wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:33 pm
Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:10 pm
dubby wrote: January 5, 2022, 2:53 pm Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
I think all that is true. However, I subscribe to the 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.
But he didn’t say he’s not old enough, he said he’s not ready for a full season. Considering he lasted all of 1.5 games before getting injured, I’d say that’s fair. His body isn’t ready for first-grade in the long term, and skill-wise he probably isn’t ready yet either. He’s just fast.
The implications are at his age his body isn't ready. So my statement stands.
So in other words he's talented enough, but even if his body isn't physically mature enough either in muscle/development/training/age/whatever, play him anyway? Let's just throw a 15 yo sprint champion in there then, if he's good enough. Bizarre statement.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

Finchy wrote: January 5, 2022, 5:33 pm
Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 4:40 pm
Finchy wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:33 pm
Matt wrote: January 5, 2022, 3:10 pm
dubby wrote: January 5, 2022, 2:53 pm Went for CNK.

Savage isn't ready for a full seasons yet IMO.

Rapana is our best winger

Jack our best 6.

Hoppa is just a reggie
I think all that is true. However, I subscribe to the 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.
But he didn’t say he’s not old enough, he said he’s not ready for a full season. Considering he lasted all of 1.5 games before getting injured, I’d say that’s fair. His body isn’t ready for first-grade in the long term, and skill-wise he probably isn’t ready yet either. He’s just fast.
The implications are at his age his body isn't ready. So my statement stands.
So in other words he's talented enough, but even if his body isn't physically mature enough either in muscle/development/training/age/whatever, play him anyway? Let's just throw a 15 yo sprint champion in there then, if he's good enough. Bizarre statement.
Chooks did it with Walker. He hurt his shoulder last yr, yet, he will likely be at 6 for them this yr. They also did it with Suaalii, he will likely start this yr.

How young was Cleary? 19?

Yes, with this shoulder rehab and another preseason I expect his body to be ready.

As for 15, you really are stretching it. He'd have to be the Flash. Or be a physical freak.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by gangrenous »

Walker got hurt and that was despite the Roosters taking a deliberately conservative approach to playing him no?

Seems like a bad example to support the argument?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Finchy »

Walker also only played because they had no other option really, with Keary going down.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by BadnMean »

How can anyone say Savage isn't physically ready yet? He was significantly bigger last season than some other guys who made big impacts in FG football, that season, at a similar age.

He'll come in stronger again next season.

Young players sometimes get injured. So did Jordy Raps. So did Guler and Hors and a guys built out of iron and steel like Jason Croker in his prime did too. It's football. So I don't subscribe to the cotton wool theory.

There are perfectly valid football arguments someone might prefer CNK at #1 over Savage. That's cool with me. I went for Savage. I think if we are going to contend we need another spark out there and he's it. But whether he's up to it or will be better than CNK I can't argue that beyond hunch or maybe it's hope. Not enough data. Even if it's just the eyeball.

I like CNK, he's a good player. Maybe better even than I give him credit for. But either he finds another gear/string to his bow or we NEED another x factor out there without GWilly and a '19 model Hodgo anymore. Let's see if it's Savage. He'll be 20 years old by the time the season rolls around. Time to have a look.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Billy Walker »

You’d find at least 8 other fullbacks in the NRL that are better than CNK and that’s not helpful if you’re trying to be a top team. We need a better option and hopefully Savage might be that guy.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Finchy »

BadnMean wrote: January 5, 2022, 10:11 pm How can anyone say Savage isn't physically ready yet?
Maybe because he lasted only 1.5 games in first grade before sustaining a serious injury, and looked very light and got man handled taking hit ups out of our own end, and is a teenager?

Obviously anyone can sustain injuries and that isn’t the only indicator of whether someone’s physically ready or not, but that doesn’t rule out the possibility that some players are too young and/or physically not bulky enough or battle hardened enough to be ready for the rigours of first grade footy every week.

That’s not saying don’t play him, but maybe ease him into first grade by playing him on the wing, or playing fullback only in attack, or off the bench, or rotate him in and out of first grade so his body gets a rest.

The argument could be made that even CNK wasn’t physically ready for a full season of first grade early on as he was basically a reserve grade who’d played less than 10 FG grades when he joined us. The physicality of FG showed him up when he was pulling up with cramps at the back end of intense finals games.

My argument wasn’t even taking issue with picking Savage over CNK, that’s fine. The issue was when dubby raised concerns about his ability to handle a full season, which I think is valid, Matt’s opinion was “he’s good enough he’s old enough”. But dubby never said he wasn’t old enough or good enough.

My argument is just because someone is technically old enough or talented enough for FG doesn’t necessarily mean they are physically or mentally ready for 80 mins of FG every week for a full season. Maybe Savage is, maybe he isn’t, but I think the idea that he may need a bit more time to develop his game and bulk up a little before permanently displacing CNK isn’t such a crazy idea.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Billy Walker »

How many times did Mal break his arm after hitting that post against Manly? Stuart had more than enough injuries and at one stage I recall Laurie earned himself an very unfortunate nickname when fans felt he was in an injury pattern of being in one week then out for three.

Savage might not be physically up to it but I’d back him in an arm wrestle against Dane Laurie and Jayden Campbell who are both smaller than him and are lighting it up in the same position.

What’s that saying about a ship in harbour being safe, but that’s not what ships are build for? This kid is a speedboat and we need to cut him loose and see what he can do.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by dubby »

Why don't I think he's ready? Well, Finchy has made some good points that I agree with.

When I posted that, it had nothing to do with his age. Merely I think he is not physically ready for a full season of NRL. Also, he could work on his craft, particularly in defence and ball playing.

I'm not saying don't play him. He'll most certainly play this year and I'm excited to see how he goes . I love speed and X has it in spades.

In future he will be our #1 and a face of the club. In the meantime, he's not quite ready for a full-time role as Raiders fullback.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by denissnowy »

I think CNK, Raps and Cotric will start the season as our back 3.

Once Savage gets his opportunity, I think he'll remain in the 17. For some reason I see it happening at about the round 8 mark. Just a gut feeling.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

denissnowy wrote: January 6, 2022, 9:48 am I think CNK, Raps and Cotric will start the season as our back 3.

Once Savage gets his opportunity, I think he'll remain in the 17. For some reason I see it happening at about the round 8 mark. Just a gut feeling.
I suspect this is what will happen too.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Matt »

I'm a little surprised my quoting of such a common sporting analogy has brought such furior.

However, let's look at Walker. He played in Rd4 as Keary's replacement, for the ACL. Wasn't held back. Was literally their backup halves option, despite having Keighran and Hutchinson still in the squad. He hurt his shoulder, but they nursed him through it. Might have missed 1 game Rd 15 i believe, but played in 19 games, and 1 game where never came on vs us in Rd 12.

Savage was FB #5 - CNK, Aekins, Simmo and Rapa. We had gone through Croker and Scott, and I want to say 1 more outside back, but drawing a blank.

So, in this comparison who was held back? I dont believe Savage was held back for 1 sec BTW, but the idea Walker was is laughable. But as far as the comparison goes 1st reserve vs 5th+ reserve, hmmm.

Yes, Walker struggled defensively.
Yes, a lot of that has to do with him only being 80kgs rigging wet.
Yes, he picked up a shoulder injury.
BUT, how many young halves struggle defensively?
Initially they stuck with him because they could see the talent, and so Robbo found ways to try and hide him in defence, because he was too good to leave out. In the end he was a warm body too, I know.

I'll say again at this point, how many backs got injured before Savage got a run? Injury happens. Not sure you can equate his injury to his age. It was just another 1 of our backs who went down.

Therefore, I'd say this comparison fulfils my argument exactly. But let's look further...

As for Savage, his height and weight is basically identical to JAC - and right now in his career id say its a like for like skill set.

Savage is bigger than HALF the FBs in the game ATM, the 2 mentioned above Campbell and Laurie, but add Dufty, his replacement at Dragons in Slone, Kennedy, Papenhuyzen, Walsh (another very very young guy who was too talented to play in reserves, and another perfect example as he was picked for origin but got hurt), he is taller than Nui, and heavier than Tabuai-Fidow, I'll put Taafe as a sidebar, but he just played FB in a GF, and will likely play the 1st couple of games til Trells suspension is over. He is only 2kgs lighter than Ponga (who played SOO at 19?).

So, physically he stacks up, at least on paper.

Wk in wk out is the only Q. Ultimately, NO rookie, is ready for that. The only way to learn is it, is to play - its also why our SG Ball winning boys were rushed into NSW Cup, to speed up the process. Which completes the circle, "if you're good enough, you're old enough."

PS. You'll also note that in my original comment that I said it won't happen, because that's not how Ricky rolls.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by SeeBee101 »

I'm guessing sticky will play him off the bench as our backup outside back. Could be our little Papi this year. You never know.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Raiders_Pat »

My guess is CNK will get it. But it's gotta be Savage for me. The guy is a gun and we're playing in an attacking era of footy where we could really do with his skills over a defensive fullback. If it turns out he's not up for it, we've always got CNK as back up. But my bet is he will be up for it if we throw him in there.
Last edited by Raiders_Pat on January 6, 2022, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by RedRaider »

The best defensive team in the competition won in 2021
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Raiders_Pat »

RedRaider wrote: January 6, 2022, 7:11 pm The best defensive team in the competition won in 2021
Yes, but they also scored plenty of points. And scoring points is one of the best defensive moves in this current era. We need solid defence too, but improving our attack will in turn improve our defence. We need less time without the ball, and you do that by scoring more points or getting repeat sets.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by dubby »

With all due respect Matt, I didn't read all that. No need to.

CNK is our short to medium term fullback.

X if he develops is next
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by julian87 »

Savage. I understand he's not a well rounded natural 1. But he has to be given the opportunity. There's too much mediocrity elsewhere in the squad to leave him out.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Sleek the Elite »

Cotric. I'd be trying to find a more significant role for him than stuck on a wing.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Finchy »

Sleek the Elite wrote: January 9, 2022, 2:22 am Cotric. I'd be trying to find a more significant role for him than stuck on a wing.
‘Stuck on the wing’ is where he has played his best footy. Selected there for rep footy. Got moved back there almost immediately by the Dogs despite being purchased as a centre.

He’s too slow and solid for fullback. Could fill in there, but you wouldn’t want him there long term. He’s a great winger. Good under the high ball, strong carries, busts tackles, scores great tries in the corner. It’d be like trying to move Sivo to fullback. That’s not where his strengths are.

He’s a great winger, and should stay in the wing. I think he may have finally realised and accepted that too.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by greeneyed »

I was once a proponent of Cotric playing at fullback. That time has passed. His body shape these days doesn’t suit, he’s no longer speedy enough.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: January 9, 2022, 8:48 am I was once a proponent of Cotric playing at fullback. That time has passed. His body shape these days doesn’t suit, he’s no longer speedy enough.
He never suited it - you could just admit you were wrong GE :roflmao

If we go back to playing something resembling Rugby League I'd have Cnk back there as his positioning is just brilliant. Speed speed speed is the order of the day in Rugbah League though.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by greeneyed »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: January 9, 2022, 10:25 am
greeneyed wrote: January 9, 2022, 8:48 am I was once a proponent of Cotric playing at fullback. That time has passed. His body shape these days doesn’t suit, he’s no longer speedy enough.
He never suited it - you could just admit you were wrong GE :roflmao

If we go back to playing something resembling Rugby League I'd have Cnk back there as his positioning is just brilliant. Speed speed speed is the order of the day in Rugbah League though.
I think it was a fair assessment at the time. I'd seen him carving it up at fullback in junior grades for some time.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Fullback

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: January 9, 2022, 10:28 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: January 9, 2022, 10:25 am
greeneyed wrote: January 9, 2022, 8:48 am I was once a proponent of Cotric playing at fullback. That time has passed. His body shape these days doesn’t suit, he’s no longer speedy enough.
He never suited it - you could just admit you were wrong GE :roflmao

If we go back to playing something resembling Rugby League I'd have Cnk back there as his positioning is just brilliant. Speed speed speed is the order of the day in Rugbah League though.
I think it was a fair assessment at the time. I'd seen him carving it up at fullback in junior grades for some time.
Fair enough - always had it in my head he played centre in the juniors.
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