POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

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Who should be lock in the Canberra Raiders' strongest team for 2022?

Adam Elliott
7
20%
Corey Horsburgh
1
3%
Trey Mooney
5
14%
Ryan Sutton
4
11%
Hudson Young
18
51%
 
Total votes: 35

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greeneyed
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POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by greeneyed »

POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

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What's your strongest possible 2022 Canberra Raiders line up? That's what we are asking the readers of The Greenhouse. We're looking at the "Locks and contenders" for each position in the team in a special series of articles. Some players have clearly locked down their spot but we're looking at all the contenders for places in the Green Machine's top 17. For contentious positions, we're supplementing the discussion with a series of polls... and in this poll, we're asking: Who should be fill the starting lock position in 2022?

Remember, we're looking at the strongest possible team, irrespective of injuries.

Click here to read more: Locks and contenders: Lock

You have ONE vote in this poll.

If you wish to vote for someone else, simply name them in a post in this thread.
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greeneyed
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by greeneyed »

I went with Hudson Young.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Beejay »

In my opinion Hudson is a way better middle than edge.
Problem is who will be our edge forwards? It's an issue, but still think Hudson is our best 13 while we use Tapine in FRF.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Botman »

I dont think i've seen enough of Trey Mooney to have any firm views on him, though i would like that to change early in 2022.
Hors and Sutton are dynamic enough for me to be considered for the position
Adam Elliott is going to have to put some runs on the board before i consider him for anything.

By process of elimination, i've gone with Hudson Young. I think he could go well in this role, but if im honest, i'd love to see Trey Mooney prove to be the long term answer at this spot as many have told me he can be, and Young can move back to being an impact bench forward.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: January 21, 2022, 1:35 pm I dont think i've seen enough of Trey Mooney to have any firm views on him, though i would like that to change early in 2022.
Hors and Sutton are dynamic enough for me to be considered for the position
Adam Elliott is going to have to put some runs on the board before i consider him for anything.

By process of elimination, i've gone with Hudson Young. I think he could go well in this role, but if im honest, i'd love to see Trey Mooney prove to be the long term answer at this spot as many have told me he can be, and Young can move back to being an impact bench forward.
Ill 2nd this.
I think Huddo is a mobile middle, not an agile explosive edge.
Given the way I see us playing this yr, the starting 13 probably doesnt seen huge mins there anyway. So, could be a way to test a young kid like Mooney. Throw him in the deep end for 20-30mins then bring Starlo on for the Hodgo shift, bit like what they did with Kai ODonnell a few yrs back.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by greeneyed »

I think Trey Mooney is the future at lock. If Ricky Stuart selected him Round 1 I wouldn’t say it is a shock, he’s done things like that before - though these days he’s pretty conservative in debuting young players. Physically he’s much more developed than most 19 year olds, and I don’t think he’d be out of place in that department. Nor in terms of determination or poise.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: January 21, 2022, 2:44 pm I think Trey Mooney is the future at lock. If Ricky Stuart selected him Round 1 I wouldn’t say it is a shock, he’s done things like that before - though these days he’s pretty conservative in debuting young players. Physically he’s much more developed than most 19 year olds, and I don’t think he’d be out of place in that department. Nor in terms of determination or poise.
I’d love to see it
All the judges of young talent I’ve learnt to trust on this site are singing the same tune about Mooney
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by gergreg »

Botman wrote:
greeneyed wrote: January 21, 2022, 2:44 pm I think Trey Mooney is the future at lock. If Ricky Stuart selected him Round 1 I wouldn’t say it is a shock, he’s done things like that before - though these days he’s pretty conservative in debuting young players. Physically he’s much more developed than most 19 year olds, and I don’t think he’d be out of place in that department. Nor in terms of determination or poise.
I’d love to see it
All the judges of young talent I’ve learnt to trust on this site are singing the same tune about Mooney
I'm hoping Mooney and Savage are in the starting side by the half or three quarter point of the season. So for the first half of the season I'd like to see both on the bench and gradually increasing minutes as the year goes on. They're both ball magnets, things happen around/near them.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by zim »

Adam Elliot as a choice is just so juicy in terms of the board lighting up. I would really enjoy seeing the discussion around that. I think Young will get the nod. Reliable performance in first grade so far. Mooney is the future. Horsburgh won't be here in 2023. Sutton is a prop, who may also not be here in 2023 due to commitments outside of footy.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by RedRaider »

Sticky did not pick Hudson Young in the 13 in the final rounds of last season. But that's where I reckon he should play. A lot will depend on what happens in the trials. Sticky will want to see Mooney and likely Hola and Elliott at lock before he makes up his mind. He knows what Sutton will bring. HorsPower will need to have dropped weight and gained fitness to be considered. A shame because he has some offloading skill.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Finchy »

RedRaider wrote: January 22, 2022, 11:19 am HorsPower will need to have dropped weight and gained fitness to be considered. A shame because he has some offloading skill.
He really doesn’t. I’m not sure why people think he does, his offloading is horrendous. Ill-time dropped balls out the back leading to errors is not a quality I want from my props. If you cant offload well, don’t do it at all.

The Warriors game last year is a case in point of his “offloading skill”.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by RedRaider »

Finchy wrote: January 22, 2022, 11:23 am
RedRaider wrote: January 22, 2022, 11:19 am HorsPower will need to have dropped weight and gained fitness to be considered. A shame because he has some offloading skill.
He really doesn’t. I’m not sure why people think he does, his offloading is horrendous. Ill-time dropped balls out the back leading to errors is not a quality I want from my props. If you cant offload well, don’t do it at all.

The Warriors game last year is a case in point of his “offloading skill”.
In 2019 Corey had 26 offloads (See below link). He was second behind Papa in forwards for meters gained.
In 2020 he suffered a Lisfranc injury in Round 7 which ruled him out for the rest of the season.
In 2021 he broke his wrist in Round 12 and then needed a shoulder reconstruction in September

https://www.raiders.com.au/teams/telstr ... horsburgh/

He's a Raiders contracted player so I hope he can regain his fitness to be in a position to show his talent on the field in 2022.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Finchy »

RedRaider wrote: January 22, 2022, 5:05 pm
Finchy wrote: January 22, 2022, 11:23 am
RedRaider wrote: January 22, 2022, 11:19 am HorsPower will need to have dropped weight and gained fitness to be considered. A shame because he has some offloading skill.
He really doesn’t. I’m not sure why people think he does, his offloading is horrendous. Ill-time dropped balls out the back leading to errors is not a quality I want from my props. If you cant offload well, don’t do it at all.

The Warriors game last year is a case in point of his “offloading skill”.
In 2019 Corey had 26 offloads (See below link). He was second behind Papa in forwards for meters gained.
In 2020 he suffered a Lisfranc injury in Round 7 which ruled him out for the rest of the season.
In 2021 he broke his wrist in Round 12 and then needed a shoulder reconstruction in September

https://www.raiders.com.au/teams/telstr ... horsburgh/

He's a Raiders contracted player so I hope he can regain his fitness to be in a position to show his talent on the field in 2022.
I'm not talking about how many offloads the stats say he's made, I'm talking about the quality of those offloads. From the offloads I've seen, they've been ill-timed, risky, not advanced the ball, and led to knock-ons and errors.

I also hope he's gets fit and uses his brain a bit more, and makes better decisions on when and if to offload, and execute it better.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Botman »

I agree with Finchy on this one
Hors throws a lot of darts at the dart board with offload
So of course he’ll make a good one every now and again
He’s not a good offloader
Most of the time they are dump offs to a player in a worse position
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by greeneyed »

The Fox Sports Lab says Horsburgh had 11 effective offloads from 15 last year. Proportion seems high to me.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... veOffloads
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Finchy »

greeneyed wrote: January 22, 2022, 7:05 pm The Fox Sports Lab says Horsburgh had 11 effective offloads from 15 last year. Proportion seems high to me.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... veOffloads
The eye test says otherwise. Besides, stats can be misleading.

Scenario: We’re 20m out from our own line on the first tackle and we’re two in front with 5 mins to go. Horse takes a hit up with 3 defenders all over him. Instead of just playing the ball, he decides to dump it out the back. It goes to ground, and the dummy-half quickly dives on it and lands half a metre in front of Horse. It counts as a successful offload. In reality it’s a bonehead play.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by RedRaider »

Corey has just turned 24. He has missed much of the last 2 years due to injury. This was unfortunate from his footy career point of view, as it was lost game time against FG opposition where he could have been honing his skills. He needs to recover from his injuries and regain fitness before he can get some FG match time. I hope he and others continue to work on off loading skills because it creates opportunity for the Raiders attack. But as I have said before, there are times when the best thing for the team is to tuck the ball under the arm and run hard in the direction of the opposition try line.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Dusty »

Whitehead


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
14. Simmonson 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Horsburgh
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by BadnMean »

This position out of all the others is the one that has me scratching my head.

There is no standout contender/incumbent. There are 3 likely contenders (Young, Elliot, Whitehead) and a similar number of roughies (Hola, Hors or Sutton/Tapine again). Plus the wildcard of Hodgo being used there again chewing up minutes if Ricky does that again.

I think Whitehead might be the best option. But I don't think Ricky will go that way unless his hand is forced. And fair enough, Elliot has been a very, very good 2nd rower for a long time.

We had a sniff around signing Elliot before he got sacked as well, which makes me think Ricky views him as more than an opportunistic pickup and that he likes something about him. I just think he's a dead set ploder.

So I went for Young. He's not a natural passer of the ball (which goes against him a bit as a 2nd rower) but has shown some great running form in the middle. And if Ricky is going to muck around with Hodgo sliding in there too, Young can live ok in the prop rotation + cover edge as a contingency. Elliot can't really slide in as a prop in the same scenario.

We staggered on with props and Hodgo pretending to be locks for most of last season and were a poorer team for it. Pretty sure Ricky will address that this season but buggered if I can predict how.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Northern Raider »

Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Billy Walker »

Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Northern Raider »

Billy Walker wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
Yes, if you want him for that kind of role. Has filled in halves in the past. Better ball skills than every other name in the poll.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by BadnMean »

Billy Walker wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
I agree with NR there.

I do think he has the passing skills, he's shown that repeatedly. He's got the best ball playing game in the forwards bar Hodgo (but including Starling).
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Raiders_Pat »

BadnMean wrote: January 23, 2022, 8:13 pm
Billy Walker wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
I agree with NR there.

I do think he has the passing skills, he's shown that repeatedly. He's got the best ball playing game in the forwards bar Hodgo (but including Starling).
I agree that Whitehead has the ball playing skills for lock but then who do you put at second row? Young? I think we would be better off with Whitehead at second row on reduced minutes. Elliott has some ball playing skills that are suited to lock imo. I still think Young can provide value but maybe he needs to spend some time in NSW cup to nail down a position, either lock or second row, and sharpen his skills. He's better in the middle but I think you need the ability to be a link man when required at lock these days.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by BadnMean »

Raiders_Pat wrote: January 24, 2022, 9:11 am
BadnMean wrote: January 23, 2022, 8:13 pm
Billy Walker wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
I agree with NR there.

I do think he has the passing skills, he's shown that repeatedly. He's got the best ball playing game in the forwards bar Hodgo (but including Starling).
I agree that Whitehead has the ball playing skills for lock but then who do you put at second row? Young? I think we would be better off with Whitehead at second row on reduced minutes. Elliott has some ball playing skills that are suited to lock imo. I still think Young can provide value but maybe he needs to spend some time in NSW cup to nail down a position, either lock or second row, and sharpen his skills. He's better in the middle but I think you need the ability to be a link man when required at lock these days.
If Whitehead is lock, Young is my first choice for 2nd row partnering CHN, yes.

Whitehead playing 60 minutes at edge is also a viable option. I certainly said he looked like he couldn't handle 80 on the edge anymore last season. Traditionally Ricky has been solid on his edges playing 80. With a faster game now, whether that needs to be revisited.

I'd hope Young is given a clear role and chance to become comfortable with it during pre-season, rather than time in reggies. That's an "in season" fix rather than what you'd prefer to work out when you have clear air during the pre-season.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Luffto »

Corey H FTW
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2022 line up: Lock

Post by Raiders_Pat »

BadnMean wrote: January 24, 2022, 10:11 am
Raiders_Pat wrote: January 24, 2022, 9:11 am
BadnMean wrote: January 23, 2022, 8:13 pm
Billy Walker wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:57 pm
Northern Raider wrote: January 23, 2022, 6:16 pm Out of all the options I'd like to see Whitehead mover here. He gets exposed defensively on the edge too often these days but still a good front on tackler. We've extended his contract and lock might be where he provides most value going forward.
You think he has the ball playing skills?
I agree with NR there.

I do think he has the passing skills, he's shown that repeatedly. He's got the best ball playing game in the forwards bar Hodgo (but including Starling).
I agree that Whitehead has the ball playing skills for lock but then who do you put at second row? Young? I think we would be better off with Whitehead at second row on reduced minutes. Elliott has some ball playing skills that are suited to lock imo. I still think Young can provide value but maybe he needs to spend some time in NSW cup to nail down a position, either lock or second row, and sharpen his skills. He's better in the middle but I think you need the ability to be a link man when required at lock these days.
If Whitehead is lock, Young is my first choice for 2nd row partnering CHN, yes.

Whitehead playing 60 minutes at edge is also a viable option. I certainly said he looked like he couldn't handle 80 on the edge anymore last season. Traditionally Ricky has been solid on his edges playing 80. With a faster game now, whether that needs to be revisited.

I'd hope Young is given a clear role and chance to become comfortable with it during pre-season, rather than time in reggies. That's an "in season" fix rather than what you'd prefer to work out when you have clear air during the pre-season.
I much prefer Whitehead on the edge on reduced minutes than Young at second row full-time. I think Young is better as a middle forward but he could probably be effective in an impact role on the edge off the bench to give Whitehead a spell. I also wonder how we'd go with switching Whitehead to the right and Harawira-Naera to the left. That way you've got ball playing options on the left and right in Wighton and Whitehead, and Harawira-Naera getting more involved running lines on the left side which is where our attack heads mostly.
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