T_R wrote:
She chose to come out and make public statements.
You think she could have abstained from comment without being hounded on the point at any interview? That’s just not realistic.
It was a soft and cuddly Channel Ten magazine piece. Yes, she could have easily avoided the question, as she and other politicians do a dozen times a day.
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
I’m not talking in this one interview. If she doesn’t take a position on gay marriage as (one of? the only?) openly gay senior party member then it would have kept coming back at her from the press until she did.
Perhaps it would have.
She could have then had the political courage to express her concerns with the policy.
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
This results was not entirely unpredictable. As said previously in this thread, governments are voted out. The primary vote for Labor is down, people didn't vote them in. People are disillusioned with the two major parties, and Labor was the more tolerable option.
Both parties appear be increasingly form a base from two (or more) opposing groups, and rather than pleasing both, are underwhelming all. Both parties appear beholden to shadowy masters and factional infighting. People are looking for alternatives to represent their interests. If there was a Teal in my seat, I would have been on it like Oprah on a ham. There was nothing but the majors and a bunch of pretty ordinary options. It was an easy decision for me to vote ALP.
Scomo was an obvious factor, although I'm not convinced that he was the one major issue that most seem to be believe. I find him dishonest, morally corrupt and smug. The premiers largely managed the pandemic, while Scomo deflected responsibility and fired political barbs.
The handling of sexual misconduct incidents, relationship with Grace Tame and general misogynistic vibe that the libs give off was another factor for me. I heard that something like 12 new women members have been elected, which is a welcome change. The pork barrelling and refusal to implement a Federal Corruption body with teeth another concern. The general sense of dishonesty.
Climate is another obvious issue. You can't lie to the public for a decade, sod off to Hawaii as the country literally burns to the ground, deflect responsibility, and seriously expect people to return you for another term.
Finally for me, I've become increasingly concerned that the LNP has become beholden to the far right. The events of 2020-21 in the US, and the consolidation of News influence and rise of Sky have heightened my concern. We saw a more progressive PM hamstrung and finally knifed. We saw lunatics like Craig Kelly and George Christiansen for a long time given free reign to undermine health directive spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories.
I'm not overly worried that this might be a minority government. It will be nice to have collaboration with a range of interests. My hope from this election is that the LNP may after soul searching, move back towards the centre, and that concurrently there may be the rise of a new force in the centre left, not beholden to trade unions. My worry is that the LNP stripped of many of their moderates will lurch even further to the right, that Dutton will be the opposition leader, and quite possibly our next prime minister. The thought of Volde in charge terrifies me.
I’d add that I’m not sure the major parties can stop the drain of their primary vote. I think the fragmenting of the electorate means that you just can’t have one set of policy (or absence of policy) that spans enough of the electorate to do so at the moment.
Labor went right and policy lite to get enough of the electorate to form government, but to do so had to sacrifice the first preference vote of the left tail to the the Greens.
In the cold light of day, now seeing Dutton is firming up as the next leader... i've got great concerns for the direction of the LNP. I had hoped and thought! they'd do as the good Dr said, but now im feeling it will be wishful thinking
Dutton will take them further right and there is nothing good to be gained by that, for them as a party or for us as a country.
Agree. And with tough times ahead, a man who will be likely an effective opposition leader, and a concentrated media environment that generally supports the right wing… good potential recipe for a further right version of the LNP to still land back in power next term.
gangrenous wrote: ↑May 22, 2022, 9:40 pm
Agree. And with tough times ahead, a man who will be likely an effective opposition leader, and a concentrated media environment that generally supports the right wing… good potential recipe for a further right version of the LNP to still land back in power next term.
Yes, thats the real concern. Dutton will be a lightning rod for conservatives who have not accepted the message this election delivered to them. But he will cut through in ways that will make him as you say, an "effective" opposition leader.
Very interesting times ahead... for both the incoming government who now seem on track to have a majority to do what they've been elected to do without needing a lot from the teals/greens, a difficult environment given we're coming out a very expensive pandemic, and the current housing market, and then yes.. where to now for the Libs?!
I think this term of govenement is going to present really tough challenges. Albo will have a chance to really sink or swim... and if our fears about a Dutton led LNP are right, he needs to swim!
I guess a Potatohead For PM campaign might go one of two ways. Launch us into some sort of Trumpian Apocalypse, or send the LNP into a death spiral towards irrelevance.
If the Libs really believe that a US Republican far right nastiness is the way to go, then they deserve everything they get.
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
With the small l inner city mob decimated, the Libs are already far to the right of where they were before the election.
The Nats, who have come through this unscathed, will potentially be a stronger pull to the right, too.
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
I find it astounding how delusional the conservative commentariat are.
They have been completely eviscerated in all major inner metropolitan areas across the country for being too far to the right. And their reaction? “We lost because we weren’t conservative enough.”
If they abandon these areas they will not be winning any elections any time soon.
LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.
It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 11:03 am
LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.
It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
Interesting isn't it?
History tells us that there is not necessarily a dividend to be gained from longevity of an opposition leader's tenure. I don't think the voters care about the perception of "stability" in an opposition all that much.
Bob Hawke was injected at the 11th hour before the 1983 election and was swept in to power.
Rudd was in the saddle for less than a year before being elected.
Shorten was in for 6 years and delivered 2 election losses and just couldn't lift his popularity off the floor.
My analysis of that is that I suspect the electorate looks favourably upon a "fresh" face in opposition when they are contrasted against a stale leader who has been in a while. This is amplified by the fact that most people really don't start paying attention to the political contest until very late in the electoral cycle.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 11:03 am
LNP are set to make the same mistake they all make after losing an election. Immediately vote in the new leader in opposition and that person remains in place right through till next election. There's really no time taken to evaluate what needs to change and who the best person is to try and win next time round. Labor paid the price with Shorten and almost did it again with Albo. They were forunate the willingness of the voting public to remove the Morrison Government outweighed any lack of confidence in Albo as potential PM. LNP could well making the same mistake with Dutton.
It's quite ironic that the last 10 years both parties have been more prepared to remove a sitting Prime Minister from the leadership position than they have in changing opposition leaders mid term.
Interesting isn't it?
History tells us that there is not necessarily a dividend to be gained from longevity of an opposition leader's tenure. I don't think the voters care about the perception of "stability" in an opposition all that much.
Bob Hawke was injected at the 11th hour before the 1983 election and was swept in to power.
Rudd was in the saddle for less than a year before being elected.
Shorten was in for 6 years and delivered 2 election losses and just couldn't lift his popularity off the floor.
My analysis of that is that I suspect the electorate looks favourably upon a "fresh" face in opposition when they are contrasted against a stale leader who has been in a while. This is amplified by the fact that most people really don't start paying attention to the political contest until very late in the electoral cycle.
That philosphy could also flow through to parties retaining government. Gillard, Turnbull and Morrison were very new to the role when they won their respective elections. The 'fresh face" philosophy may be even more relevant now in the age of Social Media.
Bottom line is the Leader of the Opposition should be treated as an interim role immediately post election. Problem is the politics within politics that happen in the respective party rooms. Its the ones who hold influence behind closed doors that become leaders. Not necessarily the person best suited to win the next election.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times!
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
and Nationals leader becomes deputy leader of coalition by default?
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
and Nationals leader becomes deputy leader of coalition by default?
I think you’ve just uncovered Barnaby’s cunning plan…
The UAP are predictably claiming voter fraud. You got 4% of the vote and it's voter fraud that has kept you out of power? Straight from the Trump handbook, and the faithful believe them. And apparently we are the aheeple.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times!
Looks like Big George has dropped the ball quitting when he did and joining One Notion!
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 23, 2022, 6:35 pm
How does the Coalition work? Can someone from the Nats put their hand up to lead the party, not that anyone is worthy.
The Liberals and Nationals elect their own leader. The Nationals could only lead a coalition if they were the major party and that never happens.
Stay tuned on that one! If the LNP continue to lurch further right, there is every chance the Nats could be the major party in a few elections times!
Looks like Big George has dropped the ball quitting when he did and joining One Notion!
He doubled his payout by losing an election as opposed to retiring. Highly lucrative quirk of the system that he blatantly rorted.
Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.