2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
3
23%
Raiders 1-12
4
31%
Draw
0
No votes
Knights 1-12
2
15%
Knights 13+
4
31%
 
Total votes: 13

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dubby
Don Furner
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by dubby »

Is there any reason why they have looked so lethargic the past few games? Illness/travel?
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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dubby
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by dubby »

T_R wrote: June 19, 2022, 5:47 pm
Boomercm wrote: June 19, 2022, 4:40 pm
Question wrote: June 19, 2022, 4:29 pm Watching the kid grow is the only highlight I have watching this bumbling pack of goons.

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I feel like watching him is one of my highlights too. He does some great things.

But he also hung off Edrick like a bad halloween costume for 10m when he strolled over. And he had another loose carry (and wanted to challenge it). And when he knocked back the 40/20 I near choked on my biscuit.

It is what it is.
I said it earlier in the year, and I'll say it again - he's not an NRL level rugby player. He needs a season in reserves.

Having said, I think he's improving every week, seems to learn quickly from his mistakes and has plenty of positives in his game. He'll be a force in 2023 and beyond if he can get his defence up to scratch.
You're 100% right.

Let's have a look at his stats from yday:

First the bad....

Errors: 4
Handling Errors 5.
Tackles made: 3
Tackles missed: 2
Tackle efficiency: 50%

Also, his PTB speed is among the slowest in the team (along with Cotric). I put this down to opposition team tactics to work him over though, and the fact he is usually among the first to take an early hit up into an advancing defensive line.

That is a whole lot of errors and some bad defense. However, most of us recognize that he holds the ball VERY poorly. You would have to hope the coaching staff are helping him in that regard. His errors constantly put us under pressure and it adds to more pressure.

Ok, the good....

Tackle breaks: 5
Post contact metres: 42
Running metres: 150
Kick return metres: 46.

There is no doubt that he is exciting with the ball. He has heart, he is not afraid to take the hard hit-ups and he adds that X factor we have been lacking (pun intended).

For me, he is not going anywhere anytime soon. He is our fullback now and will be next year. It will be a bit of a bumpy ride while he is learning and adding finesse to his game. As TR said he is improving and not going into his shell. This is a positive characteristic. He can learn positioning, improve his defence and handling and wow us with his speed.

I do think its a bit premature as well, however we just have to be patient.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Botman
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Botman »

1 of his errors was in attempting to save a 40/20 that about 2 other fullbacks in the world could have even got a glove to... that's a lost possession either way.
He scored a try that few in our team are capable of scoring, again, and his ability to at least promote the footy (something CNK is seemingly unwilling or unable to do) greatly contributed to a 2nd try in a game we score 4 in.
And he should have had another try... and he will 99/100 on situations like that. For a team that routinely struggles to put up points that CAN NOT be discounted imo.

We won the football game by 2 points. Was it a rocky ride? Sure but his contribution was significant. He gave more than he took, as he has almost every game he's played and gotten real minutes.
We don't win that game without his contributions. It's that simple.

The question is whether he's the type of person and player who's willing AND able (because some are willing and not able to improve) to correct the deficiencies in his game.
If he can't improve from this point, he'll still probably have a reasonable NRL career... 80-120 games sort of deal, winds up in SL, because even as he is now, there will be teams and more importantly coaches who will look at him, and rightly or wrongly say " With out system and our culture, we can get it out of him".

If he can improve on his handling, ball playing and his defense say 10-15%, the sky is the limit.
daley6
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by daley6 »

On Savage he is an excitement machine , have no idea whats going to happen when he gets the ball good or bad or in defence good or bad , he should be our fullback though, espescially how we either make the bottom part of the 8 or we miss out , either way we arent winning the comp so let him learn on the job, not nsw cup where he will carve up more and not fix up his errors , we dont have anyone in this team that can light up the field from anywhere , he misses tackles, and drops balls , if he can improve on those he automatically be one of our best players , as our other players in the team drop the ball and miss tackles, positive already is how quickly he passes the ball to timoko in the backline as now we can see how hard timoko is to stop 1 on 1 , also this fogarty grubber kick for savage looked good on the weekend , so definetly leave him there for the rest of the year , CNK can go into centres and kris on bench can cover outside backs and backrow, woolford can play 80 , has he ever left the field with raiders losing?
Bay53
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

deleted - already covered
Last edited by Bay53 on June 20, 2022, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zim
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by zim »

I think a 20 year old that's playing like he is perfectly fine. Defense and decision making under fatigue will just get better as he gets more experienced and gets fitter.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

I’m keeping Savage.

It’s fun watching him screw up, but it’s fun watching him do the good stuff.
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Raidernation
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Raidernation »

Charnze goes straight in to fullback when fit.
Savage just isn't ready and needs to refine his game. I can except that positionally he will struggle and his talk at fullback will be lacking but he looks scared to make tackles on bigger bodies and drops the ball every game. Hyping up his passing game is insane! He has shown zero vision, I saw more vision from tarps yesterday with his passing. At seasons end we need to go shopping for a fullback because he is not ready yet and it not fair on the rest of the team to cover his many issues. He has speed but I would be surprised if it takes less than 3 years to turn him into a legitimate fullback.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

Raidernation wrote: June 20, 2022, 6:31 pm Charnze goes straight in to fullback when fit.
Savage just isn't ready and needs to refine his game. I can except that positionally he will struggle and his talk at fullback will be lacking but he looks scared to make tackles on bigger bodies and drops the ball every game. Hyping up his passing game is insane! He has shown zero vision, I saw more vision from tarps yesterday with his passing. At seasons end we need to go shopping for a fullback because he is not ready yet and it not fair on the rest of the team to cover his many issues. He has speed but I would be surprised if it takes less than 3 years to turn him into a legitimate fullback.
Yet CNK isn’t a legitimate fullback either. He has always had a terrible technique for catching the high ball, and every backline play that finds him, dies with him.

Savage is far from perfect, but give me him as the guy who has improvement in him. CNK is at his (relatively low) ceiling
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Canberra Milk
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

Raidernation wrote: June 20, 2022, 6:31 pm Charnze goes straight in to fullback when fit.
Savage just isn't ready and needs to refine his game. I can except that positionally he will struggle and his talk at fullback will be lacking but he looks scared to make tackles on bigger bodies and drops the ball every game. Hyping up his passing game is insane! He has shown zero vision, I saw more vision from tarps yesterday with his passing. At seasons end we need to go shopping for a fullback because he is not ready yet and it not fair on the rest of the team to cover his many issues. He has speed but I would be surprised if it takes less than 3 years to turn him into a legitimate fullback.
It's not that anyone's hyping up his passing, it's just that CNK has set an incredibly low bar

I don't mind if CNK comes in and finishes the season, to give Xav a break. He's probably pretty battered and bruised. But from 2023, CNK is finished as a fullback. And he won't get a gig at any other NRL club there either
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Mickey_Raider »

No thank you to CNK being parachuted straight back in.

I love CNK but his ceiling is nowhere near Savages.

It’s not like we are in a situation whereby we are one piece away from winning the comp and the risk of Savage being a liability in a big moment is too great.

We are actively hunting for ways to improve, because improve we must. There is a sizeable gap between us and the top teams, and Savage realising his potential brings us a hell of a lot closer to them than CNKs fullback play, where we know what we are going to get (a toiling bottom 6 fullback with admirable heart but zero ball playing ability and very little X factor).
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greeneyed
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

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zim
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by zim »

Has there been news that CNK is going to be fit? Says on the site he's due back round 18.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by gerg »

zim wrote:Has there been news that CNK is going to be fit? Says on the site he's due back round 18.
I think he commented to reporters at half time that he would probably be ready for the next game.
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zim
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by zim »

gergreg wrote: June 20, 2022, 10:05 pm
zim wrote:Has there been news that CNK is going to be fit? Says on the site he's due back round 18.
I think he commented to reporters at half time that he would probably be ready for the next game.
Cheers.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by zim »

Hamstrings are pretty fiddly. I'd either have him start in NSW cup to test it out or off the bench as the reserve back.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I really hope we persist with Savage even if CNK is fit. Savage has been a breath of fresh air and significantly adds to our attack. The drops annoy me and I thought we had lost the game with that knock on when Eddie scored but that's something that he needs to work on.

He makes our attack much more dangerous, esp. bringing the ball back with pace to start the sets. I think he can even get better and make our attack more dangerous following through kicks with his pace, catching bombs for tries and coming up the middle looking for a Papa/Tapine/Horse offload.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: June 20, 2022, 11:56 pm I really hope we persist with Savage even if CNK is fit. Savage has been a breath of fresh air and significantly adds to our attack. The drops annoy me and I thought we had lost the game with that knock on when Eddie scored but that's something that he needs to work on.

He makes our attack much more dangerous, esp. bringing the ball back with pace to start the sets. I think he can even get better and make our attack more dangerous following through kicks with his pace, catching bombs for tries and coming up the middle looking for a Papa/Tapine/Horse offload.
Also backing Savage to stay. As you said he adds a dimension to our attack no one else in the squad can- and we are an attacking unit decidedly short of dimensions without him!

The knock on/40-20 save well almost no other FB in the comp gets there anyway- maybe Paps and Turbo. I DO hope to see him improve his one on one contact- that might come with size and experience in future years.

There is zero point going back to CNK this season- we are going nowhere with him in the side at FB and this season, may as well put as many games into fringe FGers as possible and develop them.

We aren't winning the comp this year. We have a couple of years of peak Wighton, Papa and Tarps left if we are lucky. I'd be getting Savage ready for next year by playing FG. He'll make errors, all FBs do (it's the nature of the position) but without him we are plod city, he might be a flash in the pan Reece Robinson or he might be the next Papenhuyzen. CNK is a bottom 4 FB. Why settle for that?
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

zim wrote:Hamstrings are pretty fiddly. I'd either have him start in NSW cup to test it out or off the bench as the reserve back.
If you’re concerned it’s better to take an extra week rather than coming back through cup I’d think?
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by zim »

No if you're at the stage where it's game ready an extra week off won't matter.
NSW Cup lessens the chance of him over extending himself trying to get through the game if he tweaks it.
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders' Hudson Young 'burns' for NSW Blues shot, reveals kick drill behind heroics





Hudson Young will not be wearing blue in Perth on Sunday in Origin II but he is hoping the day he gets to represent NSW is approaching soon. He also revealed that his audacious kick ahead for a match winning try was not wholly unplanned, with assistant coach Brett White encouraging the kicking drills at training.

"I always muck around at training and do that stuff," Young said. "Every time we do a defence drill, Whitey says we'll do a kicking drill after - so I'll give Whitey a rap. Just thankful it ended up coming off."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280

Four Canberra Raiders feature in Hard Earned Index in Round 15, while Joe Tapine tops leaderboard: https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/06/21/ric ... ned-index/
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greeneyed
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Re: 2022 Rd 15 V Knights: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Fox Sports power rankings

8. Raiders
Last round’s ranking: 10th (up two spots)

The Raiders continued their mid-season resurgence with a hard fought 20-18 win over the Knights for their fifth win in seven starts to sit one win outside the top eight. Given they did it without Jack Wighton due to Covid was impressive and the Raiders are finally building combinations in their spine that has been rocked by injuries so far in 2022. Joe Tapine continues to lead the team from the front along with Origin star Josh Papalii, while Xavier Savage looks to be maturing with every performance in the No.1 jersey. Hudson Young came up with the brilliant grubber and chase to steal the game at the death, continuing a breakout season for the Raiders forward and after a horror start to the year a finals berth is now within reach for the green machine.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 63e49ee651
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