2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
4
44%
Raiders 1-12
3
33%
Draw
1
11%
Titans 1-12
1
11%
Titans 13+
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

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greeneyed
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

BadnMean wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:13 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 31, 2022, 7:29 pm Andrew Johns said that if there are two defenders in the tackle and momentum of the player in possession is stopped then a third man coming in should be illegal. I think if the third man in is deliberately attacking the legs of a player who is stopped and has no opportunity to see the incoming defender or brace for the tackle then he has a good point. They went on to show the Bronco's Carrigan with a third man in hip drop tackle which took out the West Tigers player and forced him from the field injured. That has to be stamped from the game as have other tackles such as chicken wing because of the likelihood of injuring the player in possession.
How about instead of complicating the game by adding more damn rules, we apply the ones we have?

Ref calls held- then no one hits the legs. Not a single rule added or changed.

If only we had a 2nd ref to control the ruck and be right on cue with that sort of thing...
Or they could just say... that's a dangerous tackle, driving at a player's legs with force while he's being held up by two other blokes. And penalise them.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Botman »

BadnMean wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:11 pm
gangrenous wrote: July 31, 2022, 6:57 pm
Botman wrote:Johns is 100% right and it was what I said at the time
Whether it technically meets the criteria for a cannonball, its a dangerous tackle with serious ability to injury a prone player

I don’t know that his solution is right, would have to think more about it but that sort of tackle HAS to get legislated out of the game. Whether he technically hits the hamstrings first doesn’t change his intent, which is to attack the legs and buckle the player, and if you wreck his knee is the process, so be it

That all being said, and I won’t harp on it because as others highlighted last night, he’s improved dramatically in this area… but tarps can’t react like that and get himself binned. He’s just gotta compose himself a bit.
Not sure what Johns’ solution was, but I’ll go out on a limb and guess it was daft.

I think in the NRL you want rules to be as black and white as possible. But when it comes to safety issues like this I’m more open to grey. I think they should adjust it to: “it is illegal to use dangerous force on a stationary (or near-stationary) player’s legs as judged by the referee. “

I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure.
You're supposed to smash the other bloke when he has the ball though. And if he wants to lay down instead of running it, guess what, he's still going to cop it. The game shouldn't encourage laying down.

If we get to the point we are legislating how hard people can tackle each other then it gets a bit dull.

Sometimes people get hurt in tackles. The rules can't cover every circumstance like this guy getting away with a not quite cannon ball- but you can jam in the ribs of a guy and break one or whack a shoulder into his kidneys in just the same circumstance and it's A OK.

My central point is- not everything has to be legislated. There's room for things that are a bit ****. Not every single injury needs to be legislated against or it never stops. They've already stopped the cannonball. No one got hurt. But we want to change the rules... again!?
These are not legitimate natural tackles.
They are coached techniques. And yes, **** does happen, it's a physical game but when you're engaging in very specific techniques that have great risk of injuring a player, it should be legislated out. There was absolutely no reason what so ever for that player to go at Tapine's knee's that way.

It's not natural and he wouldnt be doing it if he wasnt specifically instructed to attack Tapine, a man known for being able to stand in tackles, that way.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:17 pm
BadnMean wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:13 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 31, 2022, 7:29 pm Andrew Johns said that if there are two defenders in the tackle and momentum of the player in possession is stopped then a third man coming in should be illegal. I think if the third man in is deliberately attacking the legs of a player who is stopped and has no opportunity to see the incoming defender or brace for the tackle then he has a good point. They went on to show the Bronco's Carrigan with a third man in hip drop tackle which took out the West Tigers player and forced him from the field injured. That has to be stamped from the game as have other tackles such as chicken wing because of the likelihood of injuring the player in possession.
How about instead of complicating the game by adding more damn rules, we apply the ones we have?

Ref calls held- then no one hits the legs. Not a single rule added or changed.

If only we had a 2nd ref to control the ruck and be right on cue with that sort of thing...
Or they could just say... that's a dangerous tackle, driving at a player's legs with force while he's being held up by two other blokes. And penalise them.
I don't disagree. But for the sake of preventing the danger, ref's can call held. We have a little habit in the game of refs calling held and everyone being given 3 more seconds after that to keep going. A mix of applying both is enough, I'm on board with that.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Botman wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:22 pm

These are not legitimate natural tackles.
They are coached techniques. And yes, **** does happen, it's a physical game but when you're engaging in very specific techniques that have great risk of injuring a player, it should be legislated out. There was absolutely no reason what so ever for that player to go at Tapine's knee's that way.

It's not natural and he wouldnt be doing it if he wasnt specifically instructed to attack Tapine, a man known for being able to stand in tackles, that way.
I don't know about specifically instructed. But yeah, Tapine tries to stand and walk in every tackle, so people will try and get the legs to stop that. The bloke got it wrong and was penalised (just got reversed due to Joe's actions retaliating), I don't think it's quite worth all the hoopla.

The worst act at a knee I've ever seen was just brushed over and completeky ignored- Cam Smith going after Croker's knee off the ball when play had stopped. I don't think either one particularly needs a new piece of legislation though.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

BadnMean wrote: You're supposed to smash the other bloke when he has the ball though. And if he wants to lay down instead of running it, guess what, he's still going to cop it. The game shouldn't encourage laying down.
There are points where a player has dived on a ball and has no opportunity to get up or protect themselves. I see the fair players just fall softly on them or put a hand on them. I see the grubs deliberately drop heavily driving in shoulders to cause injury.

I’m here to watch football. For the best football players win the game. I’m not here to watch someone deliberately try to injure a prone player.

But that’s just me…
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Botman »

BadnMean wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:43 pm
Botman wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:22 pm These are not legitimate natural tackles.
They are coached techniques. And yes, **** does happen, it's a physical game but when you're engaging in very specific techniques that have great risk of injuring a player, it should be legislated out. There was absolutely no reason what so ever for that player to go at Tapine's knee's that way.

It's not natural and he wouldnt be doing it if he wasnt specifically instructed to attack Tapine, a man known for being able to stand in tackles, that way.
I don't know about specifically instructed. But yeah, Tapine tries to stand and walk in every tackle, so people will try and get the legs to stop that. The bloke got it wrong and was penalised (just got reversed due to Joe's actions retaliating), I don't think it's quite worth all the hoopla.
Firstly, listen to recent former players comment on it, it's absolutely specifically instructed.
Secondly i dont believe it was penalised at all, it was play on at the time, in fact it was reviewed due to the stink, and cleared by the bunker as legal. There was no penalty at all coming for us on that play. The league feels that tackle is acceptable. They are wrong about that.

Thirdly, attacking knees like that put peoples livelihoods at risk. If someone was attacking a head/neck in such a targetted way it wouldnt last a round. We're either about player safety, and that means protecting players against all deliberate dirty play that puts a player at unnecessary risk or we're not. And absolutely no one could IMO, credibly argue that action on Tapine was necessary or that it wasnt dangerous.

3 strikes and you're out, buddy! :P
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by denissnowy »

"I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure."

There is already a rule in place that is currently not enforced that would resolve this and that is to penalise players for involuntary tackles. If that rule was enforced there would be less instances of heavy contact on a player laying on the ground with no intention of getting up. I personally can't stand involuntary tackles and would love to see what would happen if a team forced the hand of a ref by not touching them at all
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Yep I also think a rule along the lines of “unnecessary force by a third person on a non moving player” would stop or reduce these ridiculous tackles.

As well as the third guy hitting the legs with force, I also hate the guy who comes in late and forcefully hits the kidneys and/or ribs of a held player.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by President Clinton »

Mitchell Moses out for a month. Big blow.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Azza »

A few more of these injuries / suspensions to key players and we may be in line for a premiership
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by raiderskater »

BadnMean wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:43 pm
Botman wrote: July 31, 2022, 9:22 pm

These are not legitimate natural tackles.
They are coached techniques. And yes, **** does happen, it's a physical game but when you're engaging in very specific techniques that have great risk of injuring a player, it should be legislated out. There was absolutely no reason what so ever for that player to go at Tapine's knee's that way.

It's not natural and he wouldnt be doing it if he wasnt specifically instructed to attack Tapine, a man known for being able to stand in tackles, that way.
I don't know about specifically instructed. But yeah, Tapine tries to stand and walk in every tackle, so people will try and get the legs to stop that. The bloke got it wrong and was penalised (just got reversed due to Joe's actions retaliating), I don't think it's quite worth all the hoopla.

The worst act at a knee I've ever seen was just brushed over and completeky ignored- Cam Smith going after Croker's knee off the ball when play had stopped. I don't think either one particularly needs a new piece of legislation though.
That one was horrible, and made all the worse because Smith knew Croker had injured it earlier in the game, and also because everyone's reaction was "tee hee how funny and clever and admirable that Smith gets away with these things!"

When Croker limped up in his knee brace to accept his Captain of the Year award at the Dally M that year and the interviewer asked "How's the knee?" I SO wanted him to answer "It's all right, no thanks to Cam." But of course Croker is too gracious for that.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

denissnowy wrote:"I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure."

There is already a rule in place that is currently not enforced that would resolve this and that is to penalise players for involuntary tackles. If that rule was enforced there would be less instances of heavy contact on a player laying on the ground with no intention of getting up. I personally can't stand involuntary tackles and would love to see what would happen if a team forced the hand of a ref by not touching them at all
It doesn’t resolve all of it. It only resolves the ones where the player willingly dives.

As noted above, there’s plenty of cases where a player cleans up the ball and has no real chance of getting up.

For the cases where a player dives (usually to not be forced back in goal) the league has clearly decided that’s fair game. If so I think the should protect players by punishing acts with intent to injure.

If you do go back to penalising players for voluntary tackles, you’re going to end up with worse looks like players crawling to avoiding getting to their feet where they’ll clearly end up in goal.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Jamal Fogarty urges Titans fans to back Toby Sexton

Despite sending his former club to the bottom of the NRL ladder, Canberra halfback Jamal Fogarty believes Gold Coast have got a superstar playmaker in former understudy Toby Sexton.

“Once they said Toby was ready to take over, it’s like sweet, where’s the best option for me to keep playing and obviously the Raiders come up and to be honest I’m just grateful that I still get to play this awesome game,” he said.

Read more: https://canberraweekly.com.au/jamal-fog ... by-sexton/
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

denissnowy wrote: August 1, 2022, 9:24 am "I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure."

There is already a rule in place that is currently not enforced that would resolve this and that is to penalise players for involuntary tackles. If that rule was enforced there would be less instances of heavy contact on a player laying on the ground with no intention of getting up. I personally can't stand involuntary tackles and would love to see what would happen if a team forced the hand of a ref by not touching them at all
I think you mean voluntary tackles. Also not sure that’s a rule anymore.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Finchy wrote: August 1, 2022, 5:26 pm
denissnowy wrote: August 1, 2022, 9:24 am "I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure."

There is already a rule in place that is currently not enforced that would resolve this and that is to penalise players for involuntary tackles. If that rule was enforced there would be less instances of heavy contact on a player laying on the ground with no intention of getting up. I personally can't stand involuntary tackles and would love to see what would happen if a team forced the hand of a ref by not touching them at all
I think you mean voluntary tackles. Also not sure that’s a rule anymore.
"Section 11 (4) Voluntary tackle. A player in possession shall not deliberately and unnecessarily allow himself to be tackled by falling to the ground when not held by an opponent. If a player drops on a loose ball he shall not remain on the ground waiting to be tackled if he has time to regain his feet and continue play."
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

greeneyed wrote: August 1, 2022, 5:38 pm
Finchy wrote: August 1, 2022, 5:26 pm
denissnowy wrote: August 1, 2022, 9:24 am "I’d like to see the rule also cover unnecessary force for players on the ground or submitting. I don’t like seeing the thugs of the game deliberately smash a prone player on the ground when a hand on them constitutes a tackle. They’re only doing it to injure."

There is already a rule in place that is currently not enforced that would resolve this and that is to penalise players for involuntary tackles. If that rule was enforced there would be less instances of heavy contact on a player laying on the ground with no intention of getting up. I personally can't stand involuntary tackles and would love to see what would happen if a team forced the hand of a ref by not touching them at all
I think you mean voluntary tackles. Also not sure that’s a rule anymore.
"Section 11 (4) Voluntary tackle. A player in possession shall not deliberately and unnecessarily allow himself to be tackled by falling to the ground when not held by an opponent. If a player drops on a loose ball he shall not remain on the ground waiting to be tackled if he has time to regain his feet and continue play."
Clearly no longer enforced then
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

'Rules have to be breached': NRL defends Aaron Booth's cannonball Joe Tapine tackle

NRL head of football Graham Annesley has defended the match review committee after Gold Coast Titans rake Aaron Booth avoided sanction for a cannonball-style tackle on Joe Tapine.

"The match review committee has to believe the rules have been breached," Annesley said. "We have all sorts of rules about when is a tackle complete, how does a third-man in approach a tackle.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

VIDEO: Annesley defends match review committee: https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/08/01/gra ... -round-20/
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Time for a rule review GA
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by nachopants »

I'm still pretty happy with this win, but I've been reflecting on the past few weeks a bit

...we have actually had some pretty crazy luck right? I'm nervous about these games "we should win" that are coming up. We don't seem to be able to score 'simple, clinical tries' like many of the other clubs. For example...

- Sharks, Huddy charges at the kicker, catches it on the full, runs 70m to win it... amazing, but phew
- Huddy grubbers through for himself with 30 seconds to go against tke Knights... amazing, but phew.
- we barely beat Melbourne, that insane pass from Paps that Kris caught, barely, with one hand, ball against his leg, runs 80m to score... amazing, but phew
- whatever the freaking heck Schiller did in the corner... amazing, but phew
- then this week with the Titans, miracle flick pass from Huddy... amazing... and then Cotric in the corner sort of barely catches it, spins 360 and hangs onto it to score in the corner... phew

It's why it's so stressful for our little family to watch. We live life on the bleeding edge, we get 'dudded' by the Warriors, 'dudded' by the Dragons, it's like no result is ever in the bag, and a huge portion of our points are from miracle plays.

Now... where's my drink...
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

In my view, Booth should have been penalised and charged by the MRC under the "third man in" provisions.

Given both the officials and the MRC did neither, the NRL clearly has to issue some instructions to enforce the rule.

Third man in

When a player in possession is held in an upright position by two defenders, any other defender[s] must make initial contact to the player in possession above the knees/knee joint.

Regardless of the point of impact, a player can still be penalised for any ‘forceful, dangerous or unnecessary contact’ at the legs that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to the player in possession.

In relation to this type of tackle, the Referees will call ‘held’ and then ‘release’.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

greeneyed wrote: August 1, 2022, 3:16 pm Jamal Fogarty urges Titans fans to back Toby Sexton

Despite sending his former club to the bottom of the NRL ladder, Canberra halfback Jamal Fogarty believes Gold Coast have got a superstar playmaker in former understudy Toby Sexton.

“Once they said Toby was ready to take over, it’s like sweet, where’s the best option for me to keep playing and obviously the Raiders come up and to be honest I’m just grateful that I still get to play this awesome game,” he said.

Read more: https://canberraweekly.com.au/jamal-fog ... by-sexton/
Fair go Jamal, I’m better than Toby Sexton.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Botman »

He only made 1 but it was a banger :lol:
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BJ »

greeneyed wrote:In my view, Booth should have been penalised and charged by the MRC under the "third man in" provisions.

Given both the officials and the MRC did neither, the NRL clearly has to issue some instructions to enforce the rule.

Third man in

When a player in possession is held in an upright position by two defenders, any other defender[s] must make initial contact to the player in possession above the knees/knee joint.

Regardless of the point of impact, a player can still be penalised for any ‘forceful, dangerous or unnecessary contact’ at the legs that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to the player in possession.

In relation to this type of tackle, the Referees will call ‘held’ and then ‘release’.
How the hell was it not considered “Regardless of the point of impact…. Unnecessary contact with the legs.”

No wonder fans and commentators are regularly confused by what Annesley discusses in his Monday review.

A few weeks ago he was doing verbal somersaults claiming a Roosters pass wasn’t thrown forward, despite anyone who was side on in the stands could clearly see the ball thrown forward straight from the hands.

He’s unfortunately creating more confusion amongst the on and off field referees. I’d hate to be a ref these days trying to make ever more complex decisions on the fly.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gerg »

greeneyed wrote:
Surely NAS deserved tackle of the week? He absolutely gave it to Egan and the MRC didn't have a problem with it. Surely a tackle which the governing body deem as okay that not only knocks the stuffing out of Egan ... but also a couple of teeth ... should win tackle of the week?
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

Rick wrote: July 30, 2022, 6:24 pm Sexton has a punchable head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... g&usqp=CAU
Last edited by Finchy on August 2, 2022, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

greeneyed wrote:In my view, Booth should have been penalised and charged by the MRC under the "third man in" provisions.

Given both the officials and the MRC did neither, the NRL clearly has to issue some instructions to enforce the rule.

Third man in

When a player in possession is held in an upright position by two defenders, any other defender[s] must make initial contact to the player in possession above the knees/knee joint.

Regardless of the point of impact, a player can still be penalised for any ‘forceful, dangerous or unnecessary contact’ at the legs that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to the player in possession.

In relation to this type of tackle, the Referees will call ‘held’ and then ‘release’.
Well that changes everything!

They don’t need to rewrite the rule. They have it spot on already. They just need to enforce it properly and not hide behind a condition that’s explicitly called out as not strictly required in the rule!

Now I’m all angry again!
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Botman »

I have to admit that is the stuff that makes me most angry too
Like the Ben Hunt situation... everyone is talking about bringing in new rules and then you find out, no it's fine. They have the rules. We just need to **** enforce them

Under that rule GE quoted, its unquestionably a penalty even IF it technically hit the hamstring first.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Spot on. There’s certainly some confusion out there.

Remember when we got a penalty just before the half time whistle, but then the ref changed his mind and said it had to be a 6 again after the siren sounded, then it turned out there was a rule giving the option for the ref to blow a penalty.

So confusing.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I dislike Graham Annesley very much. Politician. Was a sub-par referee and administrator of GC, and now hopeless at what he's doing. Picks and chooses to suit the organisation. Confuses the hell out of people, and the NRL's refereeing and MRC would be one of the most inconsistent decision makers. He's the Head of Operations for quite some time but it all hasn't improved on his watch - the refereeing, bunker use, and MRC citing and charges. I would have more confidence in the legal system of some South East Asian judiciaries than the MRC and the bunker.

And he can **** take Horse Maxwell out of the building with him.
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Billy Walker »

Pete Cash wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:29 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:27 pm
dubby wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:21 pm
Billy Walker wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:06 pm
Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:02 pm

Hoppa is slow, Tino outran him at the end and beat him on the outside
Why do we keep collecting slow outside backs?
Hoppa was limp.

Slower than a snail in reverse. Couldn't break a tackle and made stupid handling errors. But, he is our what....5th choice winger? Hoping HSS is ready next year.
But even for a 5th choice winger speed is a key requirement. Edrick Lee never rose to great heights with us but at least the potential was there. He was quick and if he could sort the hand out and fix a few things then the sky was the limit. If Hoppa is truly that slow it hardly matters what other tools he adds he will still be slow…
Billy mate you had him pencilled in for fullback

Are you actually watching the games ? How could you not see he's a bit slow
I guess Ricky and I just watch the game at a deeper level than you.
Thomas Raider
Brett Mullins
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Thomas Raider »

gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2022, 6:48 pm
Thomas Raider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2022, 5:58 pm
Botman wrote:I thought hoppa was having a really strong game until the error
Then it all kind of fell apart for him
Speaking of which, off to your video ref box to verify the knock on please!
Kasey Botman :roflmao
By the way how are things Thomas? I think we’ve been lax in our commentary on other games of the round! Image
Sorry for the late reply Gangers,yes we have :D . Bit busy these days mate,unfortunately :thumbsdown
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gangrenous
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Probably for the best this season, hopefully it’s good-busy!

Looks like that’s the Raiders done for the finals so perhaps we’ll have a bit of extra time to update scores on the finals
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Re: 2022 Rd 20 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Thomas Raider »

Change of work arrangements :cry:
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