The Politics Thread 2024

[gerg]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-20/ ... /103685396

Not clear why they are going back?

I also saw a headline last week that the Queensland government was making changes to negative gearing but I haven't had a chance to look into it.

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[gangrenous]

To bring rents down.

Yeah, right…

[The Nickman]

I know a surefire way to bring rents down

It’s a bit of a radical one, but…

Build more houses

[T_R]

I know a surefire way to bring rents down

It’s a bit of a radical one, but…

Build more houses

Can't. The CFMEU ... sorry, Labor government....just took Construction off the immigration skills list.

There's no one to build them.

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[Dr Zaius]

That's a tasty little morsel. Removed construction workers from the immigration list in the midst of a housing crisis. What's their rationale?

[T_R]

Categories to be removed are Concreter, Bricklayer, Carpenter and Plasterer that I'm aware of.

General push to slap immigration down, but specifically in this case it would mean that the only option to bring foreign workers in would be under a different visa requiring a minimum salary of $130k, with a condition that you can't employ a visa holder without a 'no disadvantage' test.

SO, CFMEU are seeing it as a way of setting a base rate on building sites with that pay as the minimum. It'll happen, too.

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[The Nickman]

Categories to be removed are Concreter, Bricklayer, Carpenter and Plasterer that I'm aware of.

General push to slap immigration down, but specifically in this case it would mean that the only option to bring foreign workers in would be under a different visa requiring a minimum salary of $130k, with a condition that you can't employ a visa holder without a 'no disadvantage' test.

SO, CFMEU are seeing it as a way of setting a base rate on building sites with that pay as the minimum. It'll happen, too.

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Ah well, I guess that means the only option left to address the critical shortage in houses is to fundamentally change the tax system to punish those who have investment properties then.

[T_R]

Categories to be removed are Concreter, Bricklayer, Carpenter and Plasterer that I'm aware of.

General push to slap immigration down, but specifically in this case it would mean that the only option to bring foreign workers in would be under a different visa requiring a minimum salary of $130k, with a condition that you can't employ a visa holder without a 'no disadvantage' test.

SO, CFMEU are seeing it as a way of setting a base rate on building sites with that pay as the minimum. It'll happen, too.

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Ah well, I guess that means the only option left to address the critical shortage in houses is to fundamentally change the tax system to punish those who have investment properties then.

Absolutely No better way of stimulating supply than to make investment n the asset class less attractive.

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[The Nickman]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

[Dr Zaius]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

What's happening? Palestine protests?

[The Nickman]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

What's happening? Palestine protests?

Yeah, they've occupied campuses across the US. At UCLA there's a massive police presence surrounding the encampment, but thousands of unexpected people showed up today to surround the encampment so there's this really tense standoff.

The police are expected to go in at any moment, but they have been for hours.

[Dr Zaius]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

What's happening? Palestine protests?

Yeah, they've occupied campuses across the US. At UCLA there's a massive police presence surrounding the encampment, but thousands of unexpected people showed up today to surround the encampment so there's this really tense standoff.

The police are expected to go in at any moment, but they have been for hours.

Who are the unexpected group?

[The Nickman]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

What's happening? Palestine protests?

Yeah, they've occupied campuses across the US. At UCLA there's a massive police presence surrounding the encampment, but thousands of unexpected people showed up today to surround the encampment so there's this really tense standoff.

The police are expected to go in at any moment, but they have been for hours.

Who are the unexpected group?

Just additional supporters have shown up today and surrounded the encampment.

It’s literally thousands of extra protestors the police hadn’t reckoned on, so they’re being extremely careful about moving in.

I suspect they’ll go in real late/early in the morning, like 2am when the protestors are all exhausted. There’s a **** of cops building up though.

[gerg]

Anyone else watching the scenes at UCLA right now? Some serious **** might be about to go down.

What's happening? Palestine protests?

Yeah, they've occupied campuses across the US. At UCLA there's a massive police presence surrounding the encampment, but thousands of unexpected people showed up today to surround the encampment so there's this really tense standoff.

The police are expected to go in at any moment, but they have been for hours.

Who are the unexpected group?

Just additional supporters have shown up today and surrounded the encampment.

It’s literally thousands of extra protestors the police hadn’t reckoned on, so they’re being extremely careful about moving in.

I suspect they’ll go in real late/early in the morning, like 2am when the protestors are all exhausted. There’s a **** of cops building up though.

Isn't this why water cannons were invented? But a little more seriously, that country is very quickly turning to custard.

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[Dr Zaius]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

[The Nickman]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

[gerg]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I don't entirely understand but wouldn't it be better for them to protest with their feet? As in finding a different university that doesn't channel money like they are claiming. If for example McDonald's was doing something you didn't like, you wouldn't go and buy their product and then protest in the carpark between mouthfuls of big mac.

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[Dr Zaius]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I understand what they are protesting. It's not going to make a lick of difference.

[gangrenous]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I understand what they are protesting. It's not going to make a lick of difference.

It has you talking about the issue on the other side of the world.

This is a pretty **** attitude to protesting generally. You could make this argument against most protests.

[The Nickman]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I understand what they are protesting. It's not going to make a lick of difference.

It has you talking about the issue on the other side of the world.

This is a pretty **** attitude to protesting generally. You could make this argument against most protests.

I have no idea why people protested the Vietnam War. Not like it would've made any difference.

Apartheid in South Africa? Why even bother? Seems like a complete waste of time to me.

[gangrenous]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I don't entirely understand but wouldn't it be better for them to protest with their feet? As in finding a different university that doesn't channel money like they are claiming. If for example McDonald's was doing something you didn't like, you wouldn't go and buy their product and then protest in the carpark between mouthfuls of big mac.

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Sure because it’s real easy to transfer partially completed degrees and uproot your life.

Let’s be real. A conversation asking the university to divest is a far more reasonable first step.

[gerg]

Seems like a whole lot of fuss for something that realistically isn't going to make a squat of difference to people living in Gaza.

They're not just protesting the war itself, they're also protesting their own university's divestment of their tuition in companies that invest in weapons manufacturing for the Israeli military, and they want an increase in transparency about its assets, to sever ties with Israeli universities, as well as (obviously) calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I think they're well within their rights to protest their own money being used to fund the war. The whole "why even bother" argument doesn't hold up particularly well in the face of any protest throughout history.

I don't entirely understand but wouldn't it be better for them to protest with their feet? As in finding a different university that doesn't channel money like they are claiming. If for example McDonald's was doing something you didn't like, you wouldn't go and buy their product and then protest in the carpark between mouthfuls of big mac.

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Sure because it’s real easy to transfer partially completed degrees and uproot your life.

Let’s be real. A conversation asking the university to divest is a far more reasonable first step.

I don't know how easy it is to transfer but this isn't a new conflict. Unless the university has only recently started to financially support Israel?

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[Dr Zaius]

There's pretty clear and obvious differences between protesting for more work rights, better pay, or against the involvement of your country in the Vietnam War. Those protests may influence people in a position to alter the outcome. The only person that can alter this outcome is Netanyahu, and I doubt he cares. It's disruptive to the universities and other students who have absolutely nothing to do with it, and likely to piss them off rather than make them sympathetic to the cause.

[The Nickman]

There's pretty clear and obvious differences between protesting for more work rights, better pay, or against the involvement of your country in the Vietnam War. Those protests may influence people in a position to alter the outcome. The only person that can alter this outcome is Netanyahu, and I doubt he cares. It's disruptive to the universities and other students who have absolutely nothing to do with it, and likely to piss them off rather than make them sympathetic to the cause.

America heavily influences the actions Israel takes, both through financial and political support. If you don't think they can do anything to prevent Netanyahu's actions then you honestly don't understand the geopolitics of the US/Israel relationship.

[Dr Zaius]

There's pretty clear and obvious differences between protesting for more work rights, better pay, or against the involvement of your country in the Vietnam War. Those protests may influence people in a position to alter the outcome. The only person that can alter this outcome is Netanyahu, and I doubt he cares. It's disruptive to the universities and other students who have absolutely nothing to do with it, and likely to piss them off rather than make them sympathetic to the cause.

America heavily influences the actions Israel takes, both through financial and political support. If you don't think they can do anything to prevent Netanyahu's actions then you honestly don't understand the geopolitics of the US/Israel relationship.

I'm not an expert in international relations. Neither are you. You are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that these protests will achieve nothing other than alienate people tagt may have otherwise been sympathetic to the cause.

[The Nickman]

I think the more people that mobilize and speak out against atrocities such as Israel are committing and shine light on the bodies, organisations and countries that are funding their actions the better, personally.

I think it's amazing that students across the world are standing up and saying enough is enough.

[Dr Zaius]

Well I guess when Netanyahu stands and announces that they are pulling out of Gaza, and it's all because of those pesky students, the non-protesting students and faculty will stand and applaud. Until that time they just have to continue feeling intimidated and unsafe.

[The Nickman]

Well I guess when Netanyahu stands and announces that they are pulling out of Gaza, and it's all because of those pesky students, the non-protesting students and faculty will stand and applaud. Until that time they just have to continue feeling intimidated and unsafe.

Such a shallow, shallow view on the effectiveness of even the simplest of protests. In this kind of world view everybody would sit at home and do nothing and change would never have been affected.

I mean, why did Rosa Parks even bother refusing to give up her seat?

[Dr Zaius]

Well I guess when Netanyahu stands and announces that they are pulling out of Gaza, and it's all because of those pesky students, the non-protesting students and faculty will stand and applaud. Until that time they just have to continue feeling intimidated and unsafe.

Such a shallow, shallow view on the effectiveness of even the simplest of protests. In this kind of world view everybody would sit at home and do nothing and change would never have been affected.

I mean, why did Rosa Parks even bother refusing to give up her seat?

Oh please, don't compare this to Rosa Parks. You're embarrassing yourself.

[The Nickman]

Wow.

[Dr Zaius]

Comparing a woman who inspired the civil rights movement by risking her freedom through peaceful protest, to a bunch of privileged students disrupting, intimidating, destroying property and spreading hate speech. Wow yourself.

[The Nickman]

Again, wow.

[Dr Zaius]

I love you mate, and always respect your opinion, but I disagree with you. I believe in their cause, but here the ends does not justify the means because the ends is the status quo.

Look I could be wrong and Netanyahu will stand and tell the world that these students have helped him see the errors of his way. Until, keep on wowing on.

[gangrenous]

You’re officially old Doc.

You’ve reached the point of jaded where you abandon hope of change because it might not work and it’s hard.

By all means switch goalposts and go for critiquing the way they’re protesting instead. But looking down on protests generally because it’s hard to see the direct impact? That’s when you’ve reached sad old boomer status.

[Dr Zaius]

You’re officially old Doc.

You’ve reached the point of jaded where you abandon hope of change because it might not work and it’s hard.

By all means switch goalposts and go for critiquing the way they’re protesting instead. But looking down on protests generally because it’s hard to see the direct impact? That’s when you’ve reached sad old boomer status.

I've not switched the goal posts. Their protest is disruptive and intimating to people who have no role in the problem. It is spreading hate speech. I'd be all for the former if it was to achieve something but it won't, and I'll support peaceful protest but as I've consistently said, the ends in this case are doesn't justify the means.