A new Canberra Stadium

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Where would you like a new Canberra Stadium to be built?

Civic
55
82%
Bruce
8
12%
Mitchell
4
6%
 
Total votes: 67

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Seiffert82
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

gergreg wrote:Those leather elbow patch repair businesses and RM Williams stockists will be scrambling for retail space at Bruce to take advantage of the brumbies 5k crowds. I googled their crowd averages and there was a lot of TBA, when they should be TETP (too embarrassing to publish).
Haha, yes far be it for me to advocate for the Brumbies crowd, but I might suggest that a brand new stadium may be the "place to be" for our cultural elite!!

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »


BJ wrote:I agree with Seiffert82 on the issue around the potential to boost things around the Bruce precinct. It’s a valid point he makes.

Whilst it’s impossible for Bruce to ever overtake Civic for jobs, people, restaurants and facilities etc. there is certainly scope for improvement in the Bruce precinct.

The key questions for Urban Planners would be:

Where would the overall cost benefit of renewal sit between a Civic or Bruce stadium? (My guess is both higher benefits and higher costs for a Civic site).

Would boosting Bruce have a negative economic impact on the relatively nearby Belconnen town centre?
Hi BJ, have you seen the number of new apartment blocks being built or approved around the Belconnen Town Centre and now Belco Markets?

There are literally thousands of new residents moving into the area. It's already hard to get a park at the mall. Belconnen will be A.O.K. Retailers and the service industry there will absolutely welcome a stadium in Bruce. They might actually get a few more bars into the area, other than the 'ol Lighty and Pot Belly.


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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Raiders_Pat wrote:
Botman wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:57 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: June 14, 2022, 6:56 pm Eddison Park is a smaller site than the existing stadium.

Can you imagine anyone approving a sports stadium next to a cemetary?

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I also cant imagine the appetite for a new stadium is enough to consider digging up coffins and moving them either.
Pretty sure a cemetery was shifted to build Lang Park
Pity they can't re-open it as a cemetery to bury Phil Gould's media career.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Riaan »

Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2022, 1:44 pm
gergreg wrote:Why would investors base their business model on revenue from 11 home games a year? While takings from those 11 days would be pretty damn good it's hardly something to bankroll your business. Mind you I'm not a business owner though.
Umm, I know we're Raider-centric here, but a new stadium not only hosts games for the Raiders and Brumbies, but also opens us to representative fixtures, soccer, concerts and whatever else the adjoining facilities brings.

My point about the universities and CIT is that a good bar or restaurant will also attract patrons irrespective of the stadium, if the location is good and the precinct is properly developed as a place to go.

People can keep on looking for unicorns if they like. The civic pool site is not big enough, road access is a nightmare for office workers let alone a crowd of 30,000 and the residents are too close. I work right beside it, I just can't see it happening. It would be a logistical nightmare.

There are no magical sites anywhere that provide swathes of open land, adequate road access, public transport hubs and parking, established catering facilities and is also far enough away from residents that noise and light complaints are not a factor. It just doesn't exist.

Oh and it has to be central too - inner north or south only, or the fans won't come...
Wasn’t there a bar across the road from the stadium in Bruce? Pretty sure it closed after a couple of years. Smartest thing would be to build in Civic, might actually liven the place up a bit.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Riaan wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2022, 1:44 pm
gergreg wrote:Why would investors base their business model on revenue from 11 home games a year? While takings from those 11 days would be pretty damn good it's hardly something to bankroll your business. Mind you I'm not a business owner though.
Umm, I know we're Raider-centric here, but a new stadium not only hosts games for the Raiders and Brumbies, but also opens us to representative fixtures, soccer, concerts and whatever else the adjoining facilities brings.

My point about the universities and CIT is that a good bar or restaurant will also attract patrons irrespective of the stadium, if the location is good and the precinct is properly developed as a place to go.

People can keep on looking for unicorns if they like. The civic pool site is not big enough, road access is a nightmare for office workers let alone a crowd of 30,000 and the residents are too close. I work right beside it, I just can't see it happening. It would be a logistical nightmare.

There are no magical sites anywhere that provide swathes of open land, adequate road access, public transport hubs and parking, established catering facilities and is also far enough away from residents that noise and light complaints are not a factor. It just doesn't exist.

Oh and it has to be central too - inner north or south only, or the fans won't come...
Wasn’t there a bar across the road from the stadium in Bruce? Pretty sure it closed after a couple of years. Smartest thing would be to build in Civic, might actually liven the place up a bit.
This has very little to do with whether Civic needs to be "livened up a bit".

Nobody is arguing that a stadium in Civic wouldn't be great. The argument is whether it is technically feasible to build a 30,000 seat stadium in an area that is barely able to squeeze in a facility that's 2/3rds of that size.

Anyway, thanks for participating.

Maybe we should build it in Braddon? Plenty of bars and restaurants there! Could also knock down Campbell High and build it there?



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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Bluesbrother »

Pocock's proposed idea was to build a stadium that would also act as a world class convention centre. I woule think that brings the civic pool site back into the frame as the current convention centre (on the opposing block) could be knocked over and combined into one facility. This would create a larger site, the civic pool site + the national convention centre site. Constitution Avenue would need to be rerouted but it's not impossible.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Riaan »

Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2022, 4:35 pm
Riaan wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2022, 1:44 pm
gergreg wrote:Why would investors base their business model on revenue from 11 home games a year? While takings from those 11 days would be pretty damn good it's hardly something to bankroll your business. Mind you I'm not a business owner though.
Umm, I know we're Raider-centric here, but a new stadium not only hosts games for the Raiders and Brumbies, but also opens us to representative fixtures, soccer, concerts and whatever else the adjoining facilities brings.

My point about the universities and CIT is that a good bar or restaurant will also attract patrons irrespective of the stadium, if the location is good and the precinct is properly developed as a place to go.

People can keep on looking for unicorns if they like. The civic pool site is not big enough, road access is a nightmare for office workers let alone a crowd of 30,000 and the residents are too close. I work right beside it, I just can't see it happening. It would be a logistical nightmare.

There are no magical sites anywhere that provide swathes of open land, adequate road access, public transport hubs and parking, established catering facilities and is also far enough away from residents that noise and light complaints are not a factor. It just doesn't exist.

Oh and it has to be central too - inner north or south only, or the fans won't come...
Wasn’t there a bar across the road from the stadium in Bruce? Pretty sure it closed after a couple of years. Smartest thing would be to build in Civic, might actually liven the place up a bit.
This has very little to do with whether Civic needs to be "livened up a bit".

Nobody is arguing that a stadium in Civic wouldn't be great. The argument is whether it is technically feasible to build a 30,000 seat stadium in an area that is barely able to squeeze in a facility that's 2/3rds of that size.

Anyway, thanks for participating.

Maybe we should build it in Braddon? Plenty of bars and restaurants there! Could also knock down Campbell High and build it there?
Build over the top of parks way- at the same time creating a land bridge between the city and the lake that’s essentially cut off by parks way atm.
Anyway it’s all a moot point as the next couple of big infrastructure projects will most probably be public transport related, light rail etc. I don’t expect a new stadium any time in the next 10 plus years.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Sterlk »

Has anyone considered the site of ANU North Oval?

Big block of land there, right on the edge of the city, connected to Barry Dr.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Sterlk wrote: June 17, 2022, 11:23 pm Has anyone considered the site of ANU North Oval?

Big block of land there, right on the edge of the city, connected to Barry Dr.
Yes, not big enough. And it floods.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Lui_Bon »

If anyone was prepared to break the link between Constitution Avenue and London Circuit, all the land of the Civic Pool, the Convention Centre and the tragically rundown civic CIT could easily fit a massive stadium precinct. However it would require extra access to the rest of Constitution Avenue from Parkes Way, probably near St Johns. And then there'd be little in the way of parking, unless it's multi-storey.

The other place that would work is next to the Barton Highway between Gungahlin Drive and Yowani. Close to Dickson, Lyneham (the Old Canberra Inn and a hotel) and basically greenfield space. Unfortunately it's called Crace Grasslands Nature Reserve, so there is probably a worm or a moth that needs to be preserved there. Which incidentally I am ok with.

Or else somewhere in Molongolo. After all, it's only going to have grey blockhouses built all over it anyway.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

No point going further out than Bruce, to a site in the middle of nowhere, if nothing in Civic works.

For some reason, Constitution Avenue is sacrosanct. No touching that.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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Stanthorpe ripping into Barr on Citynews. Stanthorpe actually had a vision for the ACT.
https://citynews.com.au/2022/carnell-st ... ts-it-out/
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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The CIT campus at Reid is run down because the University of NSW is taking it over and redeveloping it to expand its presence in Canberra.

And yeah, no development will ever be approved to break Constitution Avenue.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Dr Zaius »

My understanding is that it is/was part of the City to the Lake masterplan to build land bridges across Parkes Way, either cut and cover or tunnelled. There would be more than enough space between Constitution Ave and Commonwealth Park for a north-south running stadium. Obviously though this would be very expensive. I'm sure others would have more than an idea than me, but I'd be suprised if the ACT had anywhere near the tax revenue per capita of the bigger states, and realistically, without considerable Federal input all of these options are pie in the sky stuff. Particularly when you consider the light rail bill. TCH needs ripping down and rebuilding too. Everything that they are doing to that place is just putting lipstick on a pig.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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Seiffert82 wrote:
BJ wrote:I agree with Seiffert82 on the issue around the potential to boost things around the Bruce precinct. It’s a valid point he makes.

Whilst it’s impossible for Bruce to ever overtake Civic for jobs, people, restaurants and facilities etc. there is certainly scope for improvement in the Bruce precinct.

The key questions for Urban Planners would be:

Where would the overall cost benefit of renewal sit between a Civic or Bruce stadium? (My guess is both higher benefits and higher costs for a Civic site).

Would boosting Bruce have a negative economic impact on the relatively nearby Belconnen town centre?
Hi BJ, have you seen the number of new apartment blocks being built or approved around the Belconnen Town Centre and now Belco Markets?

There are literally thousands of new residents moving into the area. It's already hard to get a park at the mall. Belconnen will be A.O.K. Retailers and the service industry there will absolutely welcome a stadium in Bruce. They might actually get a few more bars into the area, other than the 'ol Lighty and Pot Belly.
I’m afraid it’s not quite as simple as saying there’s lots of new apartments and people in the Belconnen Town Centre so they’ll be OK if another mini CBD is setup 3km around Bruce Stadium. Plenty of cities around the world have cannibalised themselves by setting up a new precinct in a key area and the end result has diluted the whole broader area.

One made up example I give would be, suddenly developers or investors are unsure whether to build the new office buildings, apartments or restaurant zone in either Belco or Bruce, so they delay building anything until it’s clear where’s best or they choose to build in Woden instead.

I think you made some good points about the Bruce options, it has potential if there’s smart design. But there was a reason I raised the question that these kind of developments can paradoxically have a negative economic impact on a relatively nearby area.

A learned urban design and demographic expert colleague of mine argues the restaurants at Kingston Foreshore have had a negative impact on the viability of many restaurants at old Kingston and Manuka. He reckons Founders Lane has also struggled because it can’t compete with Civic and Braddon, but would have been a success in some other parts of Canberra.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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BJ wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:
BJ wrote:I agree with Seiffert82 on the issue around the potential to boost things around the Bruce precinct. It’s a valid point he makes.

Whilst it’s impossible for Bruce to ever overtake Civic for jobs, people, restaurants and facilities etc. there is certainly scope for improvement in the Bruce precinct.

The key questions for Urban Planners would be:

Where would the overall cost benefit of renewal sit between a Civic or Bruce stadium? (My guess is both higher benefits and higher costs for a Civic site).

Would boosting Bruce have a negative economic impact on the relatively nearby Belconnen town centre?
Hi BJ, have you seen the number of new apartment blocks being built or approved around the Belconnen Town Centre and now Belco Markets?

There are literally thousands of new residents moving into the area. It's already hard to get a park at the mall. Belconnen will be A.O.K. Retailers and the service industry there will absolutely welcome a stadium in Bruce. They might actually get a few more bars into the area, other than the 'ol Lighty and Pot Belly.
I’m afraid it’s not quite as simple as saying there’s lots of new apartments and people in the Belconnen Town Centre so they’ll be OK if another mini CBD is setup 3km around Bruce Stadium. Plenty of cities around the world have cannibalised themselves by setting up a new precinct in a key area and the end result has diluted the whole broader area.

One made up example I give would be, suddenly developers or investors are unsure whether to build the new office buildings, apartments or restaurant zone in either Belco or Bruce, so they delay building anything until it’s clear where’s best or they choose to build in Woden instead.

I think you made some good points about the Bruce options, it has potential if there’s smart design. But there was a reason I raised the question that these kind of developments can paradoxically have a negative economic impact on a relatively nearby area.

A learned urban design and demographic expert colleague of mine argues the restaurants at Kingston Foreshore have had a negative impact on the viability of many restaurants at old Kingston and Manuka. He reckons Founders Lane has also struggled because it can’t compete with Civic and Braddon, but would have been a success in some other parts of Canberra.
Yep, I take the point, but I think a sports and entertainment precinct offers something quite different to a shopping area with adjacent restaurants.

In any case, the same issues could potentially be said for a location like Braddon if an entertainment precinct was built at the southernmost end of the city, where the pool is.

Who knows. Quality businesses will always survive. Those Belconnen ones are currently getting a massive boost with literally thousands of new apartments recently built or being built within a few hundred metres of the town centre. I'm quietly confident both Bruce and Belconnen would coexist. Obviously the experts are the ones to make those assessments though.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

Correct Seif. I therefore predict experts will say new stadium in Civic or keep the old one at Bruce, so ACT government will therefore get Geocon to build the new stadium at Michelago.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

BJ wrote:Correct Seif. I therefore predict experts will say new stadium in Civic or keep the old one at Bruce, so ACT government will therefore get Geocon to build the new stadium at Michelago.
Nice views at Michelago! Plenty of parking space. :)

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Timbo »

The ARU are suggesting uncoupling from the Kiwis and having an Australian-only competition. That would probably drive unions crowds even lower to the point where Viking Park is probably the best fit for the Brumbies. The Waratahs are already waxing lyrical about how much they've enjoyed playing at Leichardt Oval this season and may look to keep playing some games there even when the new SFS opens. The Reds were only drawing 10-15k at Suncorp this season and have been making enquiries about using smaller venues in the future.

If we're a sole tenant I unfortunately can forsee a scenario where the best they'll give us is an overhaul of Bruce Stadium. I recall one of the mooted options was ripping the roofs off the two stands, renovating the seating bowl, rebuilding the player facilities and corporate boxes, then putting a new roof over the whole joint so that 90% of the seats were undercover.

Frankly after the years of waiting for anything, I'd take it at this point.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Why has ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr suddenly turned his back on a Civic Stadium?

ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr's sudden backflip on a Civic Stadium has a lot of Canberrans scratching their heads. For years he's extolled the virtues of a city venue and the vibrancy it can bring back to the capital. But all of a sudden Barr's now talking about revamping Canberra Stadium instead.

Things have gotten that dire Canberra sports fans are even turning to Google Maps to find some free land where a stadium might fit. Southwell Park. Football Park near Woden.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by gerg »

I suspect it's a subscriber article so I'm not reading it. The answer is he doesn't care at all about any sport except AFL. He doesn't want a stadium in the city because it benefits other sports and everybody knows how successful it would be. He's been making garbage excuses forever and will continue to do so while ever he is leader. He's the grinch that stole rugby league.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Riaan »

Is there any evidence that a new stadium would invigorate Civic (or any CBD for that matter) ?

IMO the best option would be to leave it where it is and renovate to include covered seating.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

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Riaan wrote: June 25, 2022, 1:24 pm Is there any evidence that a new stadium would invigorate Civic (or any CBD for that matter) ?

IMO the best option would be to leave it where it is and renovate to include covered seating.
Evidence specific to civic stadium? That would be in the $200k feasibility study commissioned by the ACT gov I presume.

Evidence stadiums contribute to local and state economies? Yes. Plenty. Victoria's major stadia strategy and Parramatta being examples of major redevelopments/plans based on evidence around stadiums. Not a like for like fit for ACT though- nothing will be.

Will the stadium pay for itself? No. But that doesn't mean it's not worth doing. It's infrastructure- built to service a public need, in this case a better stadium and improving canberra's cbd/business/nightlife prospects.

Will it be good for civic region business. Yes.

Will it tie New Acton and civic together and improve both? Possibly.

No one can tell you wether it will or won't without seeing the plan and its implementation. But everywhere I've been with stadiums situated with "in city" stadiums -Suncorp, Adelaide, Melbourne- have worked great and I've certainly hit up local business nearby before and after and felt the experience of going to the stadium "organically" with other fans from nearby suburbs was part of it.

Whereas the experience of train/bus out to a stadium in a "dead" spot ala Bruce or Homebush is always a bit of a pain.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by cat »

From an "away" fan point of view I much prefer a stadium I can
a) easily get to with public transport or preferably walking

b) accommodation near by you want to stay in

c) stuff to do/look at nearby when you get there too early or its an early game and do stuff after.


I loved the atmosphere at the old cowboys stadium better then the new one but the new one has my motel 10min walk away, and stuff to do before hand.

Melbourne, motel 20min walk away and shops along the way


Brisbane is the same

Mount smart is industrial and harder to get to , I still go but its a lot harder, same with cbus


If you moved Canberra stadium to civic you would guarantee an increase of 50% away fans coming, and they bring the money to Canberra
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

There is no doubt that a new stadium in the city would be great for businesses and the fan experience.

Unfortunately I can't see it being approved due to noise restriction that apply to residential areas in the city. I also think it's a mistake to build a facility that can host less than 30,000 fans, if it permanently excludes us from hosting any international fixtures. A city stadium with a smaller capacity than the existing one is a silly option IMO.

Anyway, each to their own. I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of a city stadium.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Latest census figures show that Canberra's population grew by almost 15%, or 57,000 between 2016 and 2021. By the time we have a new stadium our population will exceed 500,000, nearly 3 times that of Townsville and 1.5 times Newcastle.

Just reiterates the point that we can't possibly build a stadium that only houses 20,000 fans.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Azza »

This team barely deserves a cow paddock.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

This team IS a cow paddock.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 4, 2022, 12:17 pm Latest census figures show that Canberra's population grew by almost 15%, or 57,000 between 2016 and 2021. By the time we have a new stadium our population will exceed 500,000, nearly 3 times that of Townsville and 1.5 times Newcastle.

Just reiterates the point that we can't possibly build a stadium that only houses 20,000 fans.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by The Nickman »

Azza wrote: July 4, 2022, 12:35 pm This team barely deserves a cow paddock.
I'd go and sit in the cattleyards at Bruce and watch the team run around the cow paddock.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

ACT Senator David Pocock pushes for Civic Stadium rather than ACT government's preferred Canberra Stadium rebuild

ACT senator David Pocock wants a Civic Stadium. Not a re-developed Canberra Stadium. Or a new stadium at EPIC. And he's open to private investors playing a role.

While the ACT government seems to be backing away from a centrally located stadium, with their preference now to rebuild the 45-year-old Canberra Stadium instead, Pocock will push for a new stadium in the heart of the city.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Still can't see where we can fit a combined stadium and convention centre in the city. I can't see Commonwealth Avenue being changed to accommodate such a plan.

Anyhoo, time will tell.

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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by greeneyed »

The issue he’s not really addressed is how to fit a stadium into Civic, which meets the need for a 30,000 seat stadium. Constitution Avenue isn’t going to be built over. Parkes Way isn’t going to be built over, though that’d be great and it’d create the land bridge from Civic to the lake. So how’s he actually proposing to do it?

He’s in the Senate now, he was elected on the platform of getting us a new stadium… or is he just building a stadium that fits rugby union crowds?
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Nobody has. That's the fundamental issue.

Dickson district playing fields would be big enough for a 30k stadium. Close to the tramline too. Plenty of restaurants nearby.

5 minutes walk for me too. Ticks all the boxes.

Actually, it probably wouldn't be big enough. Bigger than Woden graveyard though.



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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by BJ »

Lang Park fits into a pretty small CBD footprint.

There’s space enough somewhere in the Civic if someone is actually serious about it and not just empty pre ACT election promises, but there won’t be any space left if Barr keeps selling off inner north land to apartment developers.
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Re: A new Canberra Stadium?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Haha, yep, just knock down a few office blocks and residential apartment. Can't be that hard.

For reference, the Civic Pool site is about half the size of the Suncorp Stadium area.


Last edited by Seiffert82 on July 16, 2022, 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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