Coaching issues

[Rickmando]

To use NFL parlance - Rick has the makings of being a good GM. As it is, he’s a woeful Head Coach.

In the NFL, the good GM’s have some knowledge of the football side of things - culture, recruitment, the relationship between the football club and the fan base etc. But the really good ones don’t encroach on the HC’s “X’s and O’s”.

If the club really are infatuated with keeping Rick around forever, then the sooner he is moved into a GM-style role (and is given clear direction not to **** around with the new HC’s role and responsibilities), the better.

I said it a decade ago and I’m saying it now - we are never winning a premiership with Rick as coach. There’s a mountain of evidence that he just isn’t much good at the X’s and O’s.

However… we just might win one with him as a General Manager?

[Colk]

If only we had this guy.

[Rick]

I am still trying to work out how we went from Josh Hodgson and Siliva Havali to Danny Levi and Tom Starling without even putting up a fight?

As a coach and club this was just accepted? I can’t even remember us being linked to anyone? Not then and not now?


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[Colk]

I am still trying to work out how we went from Josh Hodgson and Siliva Havali to Danny Levi and Tom Starling without even putting up a fight?

As a coach and club this was just accepted? I can’t even remember us being linked to anyone? Not then and not now?


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100%

[samvucago]

To use NFL parlance - Rick has the makings of being a good GM. As it is, he’s a woeful Head Coach.

In the NFL, the good GM’s have some knowledge of the football side of things - culture, recruitment, the relationship between the football club and the fan base etc. But the really good ones don’t encroach on the HC’s “X’s and O’s”.

If the club really are infatuated with keeping Rick around forever, then the sooner he is moved into a GM-style role (and is given clear direction not to **** around with the new HC’s role and responsibilities), the better.

I said it a decade ago and I’m saying it now - we are never winning a premiership with Rick as coach. There’s a mountain of evidence that he just isn’t much good at the X’s and O’s.

However… we just might win one with him as a General Manager?

All the most successful modern coaches and clubs (Cleary, Robinson, Bellamy, Bennett) always surround themselves with really really good assistant coaches. Head coaches are like GMs to a degree anyways and a lot of the “coaching” is done by the assistants and the Xs and Os . We have Crawley and Giteau and they are both assistants who wouldn’t get within cooee of an NRL side at any other organisation except one where the 2620 mafia bosses make the calls . A major part of this clubs coaching issues is that the top man gets paid way too much for mediocrity and leaves peanuts to pay the assistants so you get monkeys.

[The Nickman]

I am still trying to work out how we went from Josh Hodgson and Siliva Havali to Danny Levi and Tom Starling without even putting up a fight?

As a coach and club this was just accepted? I can’t even remember us being linked to anyone? Not then and not now?


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Hahaha at the time people wanted Hodgson to move on due to "too many crash balls" and were lauding Starling as the future.

Those of us who were complaining that it was entirely coached back then and are still complaining about the same issues today just laughed and laughed and laughed.

[Rickmando]

To use NFL parlance - Rick has the makings of being a good GM. As it is, he’s a woeful Head Coach.

In the NFL, the good GM’s have some knowledge of the football side of things - culture, recruitment, the relationship between the football club and the fan base etc. But the really good ones don’t encroach on the HC’s “X’s and O’s”.

If the club really are infatuated with keeping Rick around forever, then the sooner he is moved into a GM-style role (and is given clear direction not to **** around with the new HC’s role and responsibilities), the better.

I said it a decade ago and I’m saying it now - we are never winning a premiership with Rick as coach. There’s a mountain of evidence that he just isn’t much good at the X’s and O’s.

However… we just might win one with him as a General Manager?

All the most successful modern coaches and clubs (Cleary, Robinson, Bellamy, Bennett) always surround themselves with really really good assistant coaches. Head coaches are like GMs to a degree anyways and a lot of the “coaching” is done by the assistants and the Xs and Os . We have Crawley and Giteau and they are both assistants who wouldn’t get within cooee of an NRL side at any other organisation except one where the 2620 mafia bosses make the calls . A major part of this clubs coaching issues is that the top man gets paid way too much for mediocrity and leaves peanuts to pay the assistants so you get monkeys.

That’s a fair assessment Sam. Throw in the lack of accountability for performance from the people in our very top gigs, and it’s no wonder we never get any better

[Rick]

I am still trying to work out how we went from Josh Hodgson and Siliva Havali to Danny Levi and Tom Starling without even putting up a fight?

As a coach and club this was just accepted? I can’t even remember us being linked to anyone? Not then and not now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hahaha at the time people wanted Hodgson to move on due to "too many crash balls" and were lauding Starling as the future.

Those of us who were complaining that it was entirely coached back then and are still complaining about the same issues today just laughed and laughed and laughed.

I think Hodgsons stint at Parramatta showed that the fans were not too far off with their assessment.

That 1 year of Vallandies Ball and Starling catfishing us has stuffed us, however it been clear for a longtime (regardless of the influence of off field rubbish) that Starling is not an NRL quality hooker and nor is Levi yet we have done nothing to fix it.


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[BadnMean]

Hodgo moved on because he was cooked after the injury and we couldn't match the offer. His career afterward showed that was the right call.

Which doesn't mean backing Starling was the right call. His best form- in 2020/2021 coincided with that for Hodgo and we all kind of hoped his game would develop. It didn't. But I can understand the hope at the time. The mistake is extending him years after when it still hasn't grown.

I remember posting about the Levi I'd seen play for Manly and it is exactly what we are getting now. Awful decision by stick when there are actually a few of SL hookers I think would go alright in NRL. But he picked Levi.

[-TW-]

Don't think it was "couldn't" I think it was "didn't want to"

I'm sure if he had no offers on the table to match they would've offered him a reduced price contract for another year or 2

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[BadnMean]

Don't think it was "couldn't" I think it was "didn't want to"

I'm sure if he had no offers on the table to match they would've offered him a reduced price contract for another year or 2

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Yeah probably right. But the decision making is the same isn't it? Club saying at 30 after a knee reco you're a huge risk and we'd been down that road before. A reduced contract would have been a fair punt, given his talent. But it was the right decision not to match the big offer.

[kiwi raider]

Our best season overall recently but especially from our Hookers coincided with Ennis being a coaching consultant, I think he then went to Parramatta where Reed Mahoney and Parra looked very good, Sharks last year where they finished 5th and Manly this year(currently 4th)
Pay him

[gerg]

Don't think it was "couldn't" I think it was "didn't want to"

I'm sure if he had no offers on the table to match they would've offered him a reduced price contract for another year or 2

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Yeah probably right. But the decision making is the same isn't it? Club saying at 30 after a knee reco you're a huge risk and we'd been down that road before. A reduced contract would have been a fair punt, given his talent. But it was the right decision not to match the big offer.

I got the impression it was a mutually agreed parting. It looked like Hodgo and Ricky had a falling out following the G Williams debacle, and Hodgo giving up the captaincy was a clear sign of that. It's a shame as I think Hodgo could have stepped into an Assistant coaching role. Anybody know where he is these days? Still at Parra?

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[The Nickman]

I am still trying to work out how we went from Josh Hodgson and Siliva Havali to Danny Levi and Tom Starling without even putting up a fight?

As a coach and club this was just accepted? I can’t even remember us being linked to anyone? Not then and not now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hahaha at the time people wanted Hodgson to move on due to "too many crash balls" and were lauding Starling as the future.

Those of us who were complaining that it was entirely coached back then and are still complaining about the same issues today just laughed and laughed and laughed.

I think Hodgsons stint at Parramatta showed that the fans were not too far off with their assessment.

That 1 year of Vallandies Ball and Starling catfishing us has stuffed us, however it been clear for a longtime (regardless of the influence of off field rubbish) that Starling is not an NRL quality hooker and nor is Levi yet we have done nothing to fix it.


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Hodgson was cooked after his second ACL injury, which occurred AFTER he signed with Parramatta. We dodged a bullet there, but he wasn't going as bad as he did at Parra and he certainly wasn't responsible for all the crash balls that people on here were bemoaning him for.

History has now proven that that set of tactics rest solely on the shoulders of one R. Stewart.

No, no, too obvious... Rocky S.

[papabear]

The bigger issue is he says young players are the problem with Hudson young being garbage and tapine very poor

[Coastalraider]

I think almost across the board posters in here will be forgiving of young players learning to be first graders if the talent is there. I also know that there would be zero pressure from the board to perform immediately while we are on this path. Ricky has a clear road to develop these kids.

But I also don’t think anyone was stupid enough to think that yesterdays performance was because of having a few kids in the squad. Our forward pack was nearly all experienced players and was completely dominated, our centres have played a decent amount, and most of worst offenders for the complete lack or urgency or execution in defence were experienced footballers.

2-3 times a year stick gets to use the ‘it’s not us’ line - maybe it’s time we realise that turning up 2-3 times a year without our brains anywhere near prepared for the game is precisely who we are. It happens way too often to be bad luck. And regularly coincides with milestone games.

[Seiffert82]

Everyone except Matt Timoko contributed to that loss.

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[Ultima]

I love how the team selections this week really addressed the core issues of last week by the only changes being where there weren't problems (with the possible exception of dropping shiller for Cotric)... Even better how some fans are trying to justify them...

Levi starting still is insane... Surely we have to mix it up somewhere? Woolford in for Levi, some starters warming the bench for the first twenty? Instead we bring in Hoppa at fullback and Whitehead straight back into the starting side Instead of going directly to retirement... Oh and Guler on the bench pushing out the only player who didn't miss a tackle last week...

[zim]

I was miffed by the Saulo dropping too, but he has an injury. Lower back disc bulge.

[Rick]

I was miffed by the Saulo dropping too, but he has an injury. Lower back disc bulge.

It’s from carrying our highly regarded forward pack.


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[reptar]

Would you say it’s time for our viewers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?

[The Nickman]

Would you say it’s time for our viewers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?

Yes I would, Kent.

[MJY]

I will say about having a stable coach
There is no excuse for the players
We do have issues in attack that need to be fixed.. we also need the players to execute.. we don't have those right now
The players know the coach isn't leaving so they need to compete
The one thing we have is a coach that will not be going anywhere like it or not
The players have committed to the coaching staff and know they need to fix it
We don't need to wait 10 weeks for a BA or a JD to be sacked
The players will be the ones in trouble and I don't see that as a problem. More a positive.
I'll be patient til a spine develops
That might be 2026 but I'll rust on til it happens

[Ultima]

Schneider is killing it for Penrith... Imagine if you had him as a backup and not only did you lose him but you actively tried to get rid of him then paid overs for Weekes...

[Rickmando]

Old Coach Galaxy Brain’s idea of moving Schneider on for Dargan and Weekes doesn’t look flash in hindsight does it?

Or maybe Schneider is the same player as last year, just playing in a better system that makes him look good? Surely not!

(And let’s not get started on how different CNK looks these days…)

[Botman]

Schneider is definitely improved, but he's young and in a great system and team filled with stars, so improvement in such circumstances was a given
Im still very comfortable with the club looking in other directions for our long term halves. Though i think and have said so a few times, Schneider is going to have a good long career as an NRL back up. He's a good kid, works hard, tackles well and kicks ok. Always gonna be a contract in the NRL for a bloke like that.

[zim]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

Yep. This is the GH Forum. His kicking on the last wasn't good. Even when they had Cook as the FB. Also a hospital pass to Martin. He's definitely improved but he's not a FG.

[Ultima]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

Yep. This is the GH Forum. His kicking on the last wasn't good. Even when they had Cook as the FB. Also a hospital pass to Martin. He's definitely improved but he's not a FG.

As a back up... Calm the **** down... It's almost like that's why I said the word backup or something....

He is **** all over Weekes...

[zim]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

Yep. This is the GH Forum. His kicking on the last wasn't good. Even when they had Cook as the FB. Also a hospital pass to Martin. He's definitely improved but he's not a FG.

Agreed. His own game wasn't great at all. You drop him into our Sharks side from last week and it'd become pretty obvious a big part of why he's finding it easier this year is the squad he is in rather than some large margin he holds over our own halves.

[Finchy]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

Yep. This is the GH Forum. His kicking on the last wasn't good. Even when they had Cook as the FB. Also a hospital pass to Martin. He's definitely improved but he's not a FG.

Agreed. His own game wasn't great at all. You drop him into our Sharks side from last week and it'd become pretty obvious a big part of why he's finding it easier this year is the squad he is in rather than some large margin he holds over our own halves.

Yeah Botto mentioned somewhere last night that statistically he had a blinder, but to anyone actually watching him, he wasn't that great.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Improved yes but killing it? Talk about just seeing that you want to see.

Yep. This is the GH Forum. His kicking on the last wasn't good. Even when they had Cook as the FB. Also a hospital pass to Martin. He's definitely improved but he's not a FG.

Agreed. His own game wasn't great at all. You drop him into our Sharks side from last week and it'd become pretty obvious a big part of why he's finding it easier this year is the squad he is in rather than some large margin he holds over our own halves.

Yeah Botto mentioned somewhere last night that statistically he had a blinder, but to anyone actually watching him, he wasn't that great.

But forum members rated him highly when he played with us. Some, like Botman, had their reservations regarding the time he took to make decisions. It goes to show that we generally tend to rate our own players more highly and positively. Confirmation and heuristic biases.

[Botman]

My dude got try assists for one of the worst passes you'll ever see and an absolute wretched kick. For each instance the ball landed absolutely no where near intended but due to random luck, ended in tries.
He defended well as usual, but his ball playing was very slow and when he did promote the ball, there was a lot of bad decision making and poor execution in that. Which is kind of what i expect from him... but his 5th tackle kicking was pretty ordinary and that's an area you can usually count on solid, steady performances from him.

I think that was actually one of the worst games ive seen him play at grade but was statistically maybe his best. Strange one! As i said last night, a real "but did you actually watch the game?" sort of deal

[Ultima]

Well we tried our hardest to lose it... If anything that match really pushed the terrible coaching decisions....

Hoppa had a shocker. Levi held us back all match until he finally benched. We waited until we were 20 down to use the bench then immediately looked better.... Why do we keep hurting ourselves like this?

Cotric played well too, so super questionable it took so long to bring him back...

[Billy Walker]

Well we tried our hardest to lose it... If anything that match really pushed the terrible coaching decisions....

Hoppa had a shocker. Levi held us back all match until he finally benched. We waited until we were 20 down to use the bench then immediately looked better.... Why do we keep hurting ourselves like this?

Cotric played well too, so super questionable it took so long to bring him back...

This is some fantastic contortion you’re doing here.