Coaching issues

[Colk]

Do you blokes really think we will win every game by 30?

Even when Penrith was the most dominant team in the comp, teams would "get up" for it and they'd barely eke out a win sometimes, especially against some of the bottom teams.

The Titans were winless which means if you think about it they were much closer to a win than another loss, statistically speaking.

Yes we were clunky but the Titans were way up for this game and would have beaten a lot of teams tonight, including our team last year if they were playing tonight.

Settle down.

We had enough ball to win 2-3 games. 60% of the ball and we shouldn’t have to fluke our way in golden point

[Rick]

It’s bad enough that we have to put up with Levi. It is Al bad enough that we have to put up with Starling. But to have to put up with them both stuffing up our offence at the same time. Please Ricky never do that again.

Starling stifles our attack dramatically when he comes on. We even had to change our scrum play because he cannot pass long and flat.


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[BadnMean]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

[FROG]

Spot on BnM. Still tough to watch though

[Ultima]

It's not any particularly player or position it's a training, game plan, and coaching issue.

Tapine made a half break so many times tonight, even with no one running dummies or decoys, then he gets an arm free, looks back and sees.... **** no one!

Every single play tonight was one out runs, all our passing was way too far back. We just looked completely uninterested! We obviously weren't prepared to actually have to work to win that match!

I still can't believe how many people seem to be OK with us looking so undercooked out there... No set plays, no support play, no player movement off the ball... It's pathetic and you all seem to just be OK with that...

[Seiffert82]

I thought Stewart was excellent, in really tough circumstances. I was more impressed than I thought I'd be.

He's going to make a fair few breaks up the middle if he keeps looking to pick up offloads.

[Seiffert82]

It's not any particularly player or position it's a training, game plan, and coaching issue.

Tapine made a half break so many times tonight, even with no one running dummies or decoys, then he gets an arm free, looks back and sees.... **** no one!

Every single play tonight was one out runs, all our passing was way too far back. We just looked completely uninterested! We obviously weren't prepared to actually have to work to win that match!

I still can't believe how many people seem to be OK with us looking so undercooked out there... No set plays, no support play, no player movement off the ball... It's pathetic and you all seem to just be OK with that...

We are aware that going into the game our fullback and 5/8 had five First Grade games between them yeah? Excepting Fogarty, the average age of our backline was 21 years old.

We also earned 5 dropouts to zero, with one primary kicker.

People are talking like we were absolutely clueless out there. The Titans were allowed to slow the ruck right down, that's what killed us.

[The Nickman]

I’m more than happy with what Levi is providing at present, it’s Starling that’s the glaring issue in the attack right now.

The sooner Woolford comes in to the 14, the better.

[Rickmando]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

[Coastalraider]

I’m more than happy with what Levi is providing at present, it’s Starling that’s the glaring issue in the attack right now.

The sooner Woolford comes in to the 14, the better.

Agree that Levi has been solid and Starling exactly what we have come to expect - unstructured and erratic with below average service.

As a squad our glaring weakness at the moment is red zone attack - and while I may not be the worlds biggest fan of red zone crash ball tactics, Woolf was pretty damn decent at exactly that last year.

For the first time in a long time the coach is talking about systems, and while they aren’t yet elite level, for the first time in a long time you can actually see the plan. Putting Starling on at any stage, let alone as an additional middle ball player with Levi still on the field is basically taking the plan and setting fire to it.

[Seiffert82]

I can't see a productive future for the Levi-Starling combination. It's terrible in defence as well as being chaotic in attack.

Unless we are 6 points down with 5 minutes to go and have no other options.

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[zim]

I think it only happened due to Hosking's issues. We had to burn 2 interchanges when plan A would have seen him play 80mins and Starling comes on for Levi in a straight swap. I would have left Levi on for the full 80 with the possession we had.

[bonehead]

I think it only happened due to Hosking's issues. We had to burn 2 interchanges when plan A would have seen him play 80mins and Starling comes on for Levi in a straight swap. I would have left Levi on for the full 80 with the possession we had.

Levi is out on his feet after 50mins though, either need to find a way to hide him defensively or have that plan to sub him.
We've seen him get walked past week in week out through the middle and yes that means we need better from the other middles outside of Morgs.

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[BadnMean]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

Fair critique. I thought I saw some more structure emerging in games this season- we've looked a little slicker in some matches and finally actually scored off some regulation shifts or out the back plays.

It all went missing v GC I agree. But I'm not expecting consistency yet.

[Rickmando]

I think it only happened due to Hosking's issues. We had to burn 2 interchanges when plan A would have seen him play 80mins and Starling comes on for Levi in a straight swap. I would have left Levi on for the full 80 with the possession we had.

Levi is out on his feet after 50mins though, either need to find a way to hide him defensively or have that plan to sub him.
We've seen him get walked past week in week out through the middle and yes that means we need better from the other middles outside of Morgs.

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Seems to me like the answer to optimise our hooking options for 80mins is probably Woolford for a 25-30min stint at the front end of the game, and then letting Levi run out the rest?

Woolford I feel gives better service to our forwards. Match him up with Paps and Taps in their first stint and get us rolling.

Levi we then use in the “Starling role” - have him work more as a running dummy half at tiring defences. Still potentially leaves us susceptible to this mid-game flat spot we seem to have, but might spark something?

What do others think?

[zim]

I understand Levi being gassed in the middle after 50mins if we're talking a 50/50 or worse possession game but we dominated that game everywhere but the scoreboard. For a guy that has survived for years off being a good trainer this is the game you needed him to figure it out, if he was ever going to.
It may have been one of the middles was also due a change and we ended up with the Frankenstein.

[The Nickman]

I think it only happened due to Hosking's issues. We had to burn 2 interchanges when plan A would have seen him play 80mins and Starling comes on for Levi in a straight swap. I would have left Levi on for the full 80 with the possession we had.

Levi is out on his feet after 50mins though, either need to find a way to hide him defensively or have that plan to sub him.
We've seen him get walked past week in week out through the middle and yes that means we need better from the other middles outside of Morgs.

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It's a pretty simple formula then.

30min of Levi
20-30min of Woolford
20-30min of Levi

It's not rocket surgery and it means we have no period in the match where either our service suffers or our hooker gets too tired to defend properly.

[The Nickman]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

Fair critique. I thought I saw some more structure emerging in games this season- we've looked a little slicker in some matches and finally actually scored off some regulation shifts or out the back plays.

It all went missing v GC I agree. But I'm not expecting consistency yet.

I think it all went missing without Rapana, he's been a huge link man in those out the back plays this season, hopefully Chevy warms into the role over the next month.

[Raidernation]

Levi isn't the issue. His service this year is better than woolfords last year and he is looking pretty good so far.

The structure in attack was there but with no fullback to exploit the space created. I lost count of the number of times fogs or the second rowers had acres of space next to them for a pass where raps would be but the fullback wasn't there.i also thought our depth on the left was insane. Both of these come down to our 18yo fullback and 19yo 5/8. Both played pretty well for their experience level but it's what happens with rookies in the spine and they are going to need another 18 months to 2 years to get there. Killing the rest of the team or certain players for what was actually an extremely dominant performance is counter productive.

[RedRaider]

I can't see a productive future for the Levi-Starling combination. It's terrible in defence as well as being chaotic in attack.

Unless we are 6 points down with 5 minutes to go and have no other options.

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Woolf needs to start imo. DL is averaging about 4 missed tackles per opening 60 minute stint. Woolf will tighten that up as he proved last year. He also gets the forwards gaining on the advantage line. Starling has better defence than DL but he struggles passing left to right. So much so that he turned his back on the opposition to pass in that direction. That is not good enough in FG.
The best set piece last night was the Titans scrum kick ahead for the try. I’d like to see Strange and Xav work on something similar.

[RedRaider]

I can't see a productive future for the Levi-Starling combination. It's terrible in defence as well as being chaotic in attack.

Unless we are 6 points down with 5 minutes to go and have no other options.

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Woolf needs to start imo. DL is averaging about 4 missed tackles per opening 60 minute stint. Woolf will tighten that up as he proved last year. He also gets the forwards gaining on the advantage line. Starling has better defence than DL but he struggles passing left to right. So much so that he turned his back on the opposition to pass in that direction. That is not good enough in FG.
The best set piece last night was the Titans scrum kick ahead for the try. I’d like to see Strange and Xav work on something similar.

[Rick]

Did you want Woolford to start RR?

Benefit of him playing the first 25-30 mins is it gives us one less interchange rather then DL starting and finishing.


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[The Nickman]

I feel like Red thinks Woolf needs to start.

[greeneyed]

I can't see a productive future for the Levi-Starling combination. It's terrible in defence as well as being chaotic in attack.

Unless we are 6 points down with 5 minutes to go and have no other options.

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Woolf needs to start imo. DL is averaging about 4 missed tackles per opening 60 minute stint. Woolf will tighten that up as he proved last year. He also gets the forwards gaining on the advantage line. Starling has better defence than DL but he struggles passing left to right. So much so that he turned his back on the opposition to pass in that direction. That is not good enough in FG.
The best set piece last night was the Titans scrum kick ahead for the try. I’d like to see Strange and Xav work on something similar.

I agree with you Red. Haven’t flip flopped here.

[RedRaider]

Did you want Woolford to start RR?

Benefit of him playing the first 25-30 mins is it gives us one less interchange rather then DL starting and finishing.


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LOL. Yes I do want Woolf to start but I won’t say it again today.

[The Nickman]

I'd be happy with Woolford starting, I'd be happy with Levi starting, I'm NOT happy with what Starling brings.

[Billy Walker]

I don’t feel any need to defend Levi’s performances this year as they speak for themselves and the people who matter (ie the ones who pick the actual team) know he is the best 9 in our squad. Everyone else can make up stats, rate him lowly and drop him from predicted teams but that won’t impact what actually happens. I’m really enjoying watching what he is bringing this year. I knew he was going to be very good for us.

[Bluesbrother]

Levi isn't the issue. His service this year is better than woolfords last year and he is looking pretty good so far.

The structure in attack was there but with no fullback to exploit the space created. I lost count of the number of times fogs or the second rowers had acres of space next to them for a pass where raps would be but the fullback wasn't there.i also thought our depth on the left was insane. Both of these come down to our 18yo fullback and 19yo 5/8. Both played pretty well for their experience level but it's what happens with rookies in the spine and they are going to need another 18 months to 2 years to get there. Killing the rest of the team or certain players for what was actually an extremely dominant performance is counter productive.

I'd have to disagree there. Chevy and Strange need to develop for sure. That was always going to be a long term process. At the moment, they are getting valuable experience and we are winning games. What's your alternative?

[Bluesbrother]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

So you won't be content until Ricky is gone? Seems a bit ridiculous when he has rebuilt the squad multiple times and taken us to greater heights than anyone else in the modern era. Despite a renewed approach this season, you're still not happy? I don't get what you're looking for? Do you want us to copy other teams and play like they do only for us to realise our talent across the squad is completely inferior?

If he was to leave I'd expect to see a similar thing that's happened to Souths.

[Old School Green]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

So you won't be content until Ricky is gone? Seems a bit ridiculous when he has rebuilt the squad multiple times and taken us to greater heights than anyone else in the modern era. Despite a renewed approach this season, you're still not happy? I don't get what you're looking for? Do you want us to copy other teams and play like they do only for us to realise our talent across the squad is completely inferior?

If he was to leave I'd expect to see a similar thing that's happened to Souths.

This whole Ricky has to go stuff is the world's greatest moot point. We currently sit third in a season where most external pundits thought we would be bottom four. He has a young squad, exciting players signing/re-signing and getting releases to come here. Listen to Chevy's parents last week about the esteem in which they hold him.

There is a breathe of fresh air with the assistants and NSW cup voices around him this year and he continues to be a huge force in the wider game and one that the players respect and clearly love playing for.

So many teams out there with 'the next big thing coaches' who are scrapping for relevancy and perpetually rebuilding through rubbish results. The club is rock solid behind him and will be for however long he wants the job I suspect. We look and feel like we are coming into a period now of what looks like a new era with even more success beckoning, which just makes the calls for a replacement all the more misplaced.

We are all entitled to an opinion no doubt, but don't ever kid yourself that Ricky will ever not be seen as anything other than top dog at the Raiders and rightfully so especially if the results continue to come.

[Raidernation]

Levi isn't the issue. His service this year is better than woolfords last year and he is looking pretty good so far.

The structure in attack was there but with no fullback to exploit the space created. I lost count of the number of times fogs or the second rowers had acres of space next to them for a pass where raps would be but the fullback wasn't there.i also thought our depth on the left was insane. Both of these come down to our 18yo fullback and 19yo 5/8. Both played pretty well for their experience level but it's what happens with rookies in the spine and they are going to need another 18 months to 2 years to get there. Killing the rest of the team or certain players for what was actually an extremely dominant performance is counter productive.

I'd have to disagree there. Chevy and Strange need to develop for sure. That was always going to be a long term process. At the moment, they are getting valuable experience and we are winning games. What's your alternative?

Well that's my point exactly. We have 2 rookies in the spine and it will look good sometimes, it will look terrible sometimes and it will look ok sometimes. It will also effect other players in the team. It's just what happens.

[Rickmando]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

So you won't be content until Ricky is gone? Seems a bit ridiculous when he has rebuilt the squad multiple times and taken us to greater heights than anyone else in the modern era. Despite a renewed approach this season, you're still not happy? I don't get what you're looking for? Do you want us to copy other teams and play like they do only for us to realise our talent across the squad is completely inferior?

If he was to leave I'd expect to see a similar thing that's happened to Souths.

Exactly right - I don’t believe Rick can deliver us success in the only metric I care about, a premiership.

If I wanted someone who could steer us to being 3rd on the ladder after 6 rounds, exclusively beating teams toward the bottom of the ladder, I could get nearly anyone. It’s such a small sample size, and frankly, a low bar. And it’s meaningless.

The fact you point to him overseeing 3 rebuilds in itself is laughable. At some point the message and messenger have to change.

My point is that (football) issues which have plagued us the entirety of Rick’s tenure continue to rear their heads. And we aren’t winning a (football) comp until they are dealt with - is Rick the man to do it? Not based on him being unable to these past 10 years…

I’m not advocating him to be banished from the club. He has a lot of good attributes useful on the club side of things. My position has always been that he has no business near the coaching role. His football acumen is what is lacking, and what holds us back, not any of the other “bleed green” stuff

[Seiffert82]

I think it only happened due to Hosking's issues. We had to burn 2 interchanges when plan A would have seen him play 80mins and Starling comes on for Levi in a straight swap. I would have left Levi on for the full 80 with the possession we had.

Levi is out on his feet after 50mins though, either need to find a way to hide him defensively or have that plan to sub him.
We've seen him get walked past week in week out through the middle and yes that means we need better from the other middles outside of Morgs.

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That's the biggest issue. When you put Starling on while Levi is flagging the opposition has two small middles to aim at, in addition to Fogarty. It's even worse if Taps and Papa are still on the bench.

Every single time we play with that lineup the opposition make 60-70 metres a set. We get absolutely steamrolled through the middle.

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[Seiffert82]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

So you won't be content until Ricky is gone? Seems a bit ridiculous when he has rebuilt the squad multiple times and taken us to greater heights than anyone else in the modern era. Despite a renewed approach this season, you're still not happy? I don't get what you're looking for? Do you want us to copy other teams and play like they do only for us to realise our talent across the squad is completely inferior?

If he was to leave I'd expect to see a similar thing that's happened to Souths.

This whole Ricky has to go stuff is the world's greatest moot point. We currently sit third in a season where most external pundits thought we would be bottom four. He has a young squad, exciting players signing/re-signing and getting releases to come here. Listen to Chevy's parents last week about the esteem in which they hold him.

There is a breathe of fresh air with the assistants and NSW cup voices around him this year and he continues to be a huge force in the wider game and one that the players respect and clearly love playing for.

So many teams out there with 'the next big thing coaches' who are scrapping for relevancy and perpetually rebuilding through rubbish results. The club is rock solid behind him and will be for however long he wants the job I suspect. We look and feel like we are coming into a period now of what looks like a new era with even more success beckoning, which just makes the calls for a replacement all the more misplaced.

We are all entitled to an opinion no doubt, but don't ever kid yourself that Ricky will ever not be seen as anything other than top dog at the Raiders and rightfully so especially if the results continue to come.

Many sports fans genuinely just struggle to enjoy the ride. The "premiership or bust" approach to fandom is certainly not exclusive to the NRL.

Demanding success in something you have zero control over makes for a pretty miserable experience for those fans most of the time, but each to their own.

FWIW I think Stuart has a few flaws as a coach, but the effort he has put in to re-tooling this squad from almost the ground up, not once but twice, is really commendable and exciting to see.

I'm really enjoying watching this crop of kids come through and I'm happy to be patient in waiting for the end product.

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[Bluesbrother]

People are complaining about our poor hookers. Fair I guess. But...

FB is the most important attacking position in the modern game. We have an undercooked rookie there. Until he finds his feet, we'll look a bit rubbish in attack- with basically no attacking input from the FB (see '23 Kris but less physicality).

And that's fine, Chevy might click in a game, or a month or next season. But attacking with a zero ball play half (Fog) and basically no attack from FB leaves people looking for other answers. What do you expect from that set up?

For years Hodgo was our creative/structural fulcrum and most hookers- Smith aside_ just don't provide that and aren't paid that way.

I appreciate that BnM. I thought Chevy played a great game relative to his experience level, he will do well in the top grade if that is his first effort.

I’m not even sure the lack of a fullback attacking presence even matters though when we aren’t even capable of getting set up to utilise him. All those trips to the red zone and yet we never got composed or organised enough to remotely trouble a team who are statistically the worst defence in the comp.

The issue is, when the going gets tough you have to be able to fall back on systems, structures and the coaching of individual players to know their roles. We have seen time and time again over the past 10 years that it doesn’t matter who the individual cattle are out there - the common theme is that in tight games or contested situations, we have no plan to fall back on. We are headless chooks out there. This applies to defence almost as much as the attack btw. There’s no way we should have conceded such soft tries when we’d played most of the game with the ball.

Now you can cite a lack of leadership in these situations, and you wouldn’t be wrong there, but it’s still telling that in 10 years Rick hasn’t either recruited any on-field leaders who can establish the aforementioned composure and game management, or can’t coach them in a way that empowers the leaders to transfer their leadership to these on-field moments.

All these talk tracks in midweek press conferences. Yet so often in the heat of battle we aren’t able to “walk the walk”. I think it’s time we changed the message and the messenger. The hardest ceiling put on all this emerging playing talent will be the current coaching regime.

So you won't be content until Ricky is gone? Seems a bit ridiculous when he has rebuilt the squad multiple times and taken us to greater heights than anyone else in the modern era. Despite a renewed approach this season, you're still not happy? I don't get what you're looking for? Do you want us to copy other teams and play like they do only for us to realise our talent across the squad is completely inferior?

If he was to leave I'd expect to see a similar thing that's happened to Souths.

Exactly right - I don’t believe Rick can deliver us success in the only metric I care about, a premiership.

If I wanted someone who could steer us to being 3rd on the ladder after 6 rounds, exclusively beating teams toward the bottom of the ladder, I could get nearly anyone. It’s such a small sample size, and frankly, a low bar. And it’s meaningless.

The fact you point to him overseeing 3 rebuilds in itself is laughable. At some point the message and messenger have to change.

My point is that (football) issues which have plagued us the entirety of Rick’s tenure continue to rear their heads. And we aren’t winning a (football) comp until they are dealt with - is Rick the man to do it? Not based on him being unable to these past 10 years…

I’m not advocating him to be banished from the club. He has a lot of good attributes useful on the club side of things. My position has always been that he has no business near the coaching role. His football acumen is what is lacking, and what holds us back, not any of the other “bleed green” stuff

Rick, it's fact that Ricky has overseen 3 rebuilds. Laugh away mate. It's happened.

As I said, the rabble that you see with Souths right now would be what would happen if Ricky was to leave us.

I hope you find peace in enjoying the journey to our next premiership. Until then, enjoy the misery of wanting something that will next happen.