Canberra Raiders interest in Matt Dufty goes cold

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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

Timbo wrote: July 4, 2021, 10:32 am Remember when Simmonson had one good game as the incumbent wooden spooners and we decided we didn’t actually need a new fullback?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
And this is often typical of the Raiders over the last 10-20 years. We get overly attached to players who do something mildly good. Like how Shaun Fensom was a club legend and ripped off by not getting picked for NSW etc... then when he went to other clubs, we found out how good he really was: solid, but no more

Were a bit like a loser guy who finally gets a bit of attention from a woman and falls head over heels... because it's so scarce. I still think it was maybe John Bateman alone who made us raise our standards

Similar story with Croker and CNK and others currently. They've done some good work before, not enough to be superstars of the game but good solid work, and people pledge their undying loyalty

Compare to Roosters who were ripped for punting Flanagan, not being "loyal", and it turned out they made the right call

And Ricky *very* much sees himself in that loyal category. He's a self-branded "player's coach", lets the prop rotation pick themselves... part of the mess we're seeing this year is because it shows you've got little recourse when those players start cocking it up
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Botman »

I appreciate how often Kman turns to metaphors about this club that involve getting attention from women

Fwiw by the time Fensom left most agreed the game had passed him by, and it had. Doesn’t take away from his early years of footy when that style of forward was very much in vogue and he was one of the better ones.

I really dislike the way sports fans routinely dismiss a players successes because they fade quickly and/or the game passes them by.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:36 am I appreciate how often Kman turns to metaphors about this club that involve getting attention from women

Fwiw by the time Fensom left most agreed the game had passed him by, and it had. Doesn’t take away from his early years of footy when that style of forward was very much in vogue and he was one of the better ones.

I really dislike the way sports fans routinely dismiss a players successes because they fade quickly and/or the game passes them by.
Yep. Fenno was great for us. Multiple POTY awards early in his career. If anything the club cut him loose at the right time. Dropped from 1st grade in 2016 and not retained after that. He was only 27 at the time.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

Well I don't want to make it too much about him in particular... I think there is a trend of the Raiders being overly sentimental though, including the coach
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by bonehead »

Bagging Croker, the bloke who's played 285 games, highest point scorer in club history, highest try scorer in club history and captain - now that his body has let him down after 13 seasons of punishment, quality posting.

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Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:I appreciate how often Kman turns to metaphors about this club that involve getting attention from women

Fwiw by the time Fensom left most agreed the game had passed him by, and it had. Doesn’t take away from his early years of footy when that style of forward was very much in vogue and he was one of the better ones.

I really dislike the way sports fans routinely dismiss a players successes because they fade quickly and/or the game passes them by.
They’re oddly specific aren’t they? It’s like the metaphors are a guy who’s really interested in this woman, but she pays him no attention. So he starts lurking outside her window, throwing pebbles on the roof in the hope that Susan gives him some form of attention.

Then when that fails, he starts leaving envelopes filled with fingernail clippings he collects of hers, in the hope that she’ll see the lengths he’s going to for her and will say hi to him
Last edited by FuiFui BradBrad on July 4, 2021, 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Botman »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:47 am Well I don't want to make it too much about him in particular... I think there is a trend of the Raiders being overly sentimental though, including the coach
I think that’s fair and probably true of all fan bases
They have their “fan favourites” and they’re usually the less talented guys who appear to love the club the way the fans do and are those “give their all” types
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:49 am
Botman wrote:I appreciate how often Kman turns to metaphors about this club that involve getting attention from women

Fwiw by the time Fensom left most agreed the game had passed him by, and it had. Doesn’t take away from his early years of footy when that style of forward was very much in vogue and he was one of the better ones.

I really dislike the way sports fans routinely dismiss a players successes because they fade quickly and/or the game passes them by.
They’re oddly specific aren’t they? It’s like the metaphors are a guy who’s really interested in this woman, but she pays him no attention. So he starts lurking outside her window, throwing pebbles on the roof in the hope that Susan gives him some form of attention. Then when that fails, he starts leaving envelopes filled with fingernail clippings he collects of hers, in the hope that she’ll see the lengths he’s going to for her and will say hi to him
The raiders are a lot like an 18 year old forklift driver from Penrith who has no direction in life… :lol:
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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👀👀 lol
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:49 am
Botman wrote:I appreciate how often Kman turns to metaphors about this club that involve getting attention from women

Fwiw by the time Fensom left most agreed the game had passed him by, and it had. Doesn’t take away from his early years of footy when that style of forward was very much in vogue and he was one of the better ones.

I really dislike the way sports fans routinely dismiss a players successes because they fade quickly and/or the game passes them by.
They’re oddly specific aren’t they? It’s like the metaphors are a guy who’s really interested in this woman, but she pays him no attention. So he starts lurking outside her window, throwing pebbles on the roof in the hope that Susan gives him some form of attention. Then when that fails, he starts leaving envelopes filled with fingernail clippings he collects of hers, in the hope that she’ll see the lengths he’s going to for her and will say hi to him
The raiders are a lot like an 18 year old forklift driver from Penrith who has no direction in life… :lol:
I was once an 18 year old Penrith forklift driver

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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

Botman wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:51 am
Canberra Milk wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:47 am Well I don't want to make it too much about him in particular... I think there is a trend of the Raiders being overly sentimental though, including the coach
I think that’s fair and probably true of all fan bases
They have their “fan favourites” and they’re usually the less talented guys who appear to love the club the way the fans do and are those “give their all” types
Can forgive it in fans, but I see a bit of it in the club itself and coaching staff, hence Croker's massive contract etc, and I suspect they had the same attitude some here did after Simo's one good game
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Botman »

Canberra Milk wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:57 am
Botman wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:51 am
Canberra Milk wrote: July 4, 2021, 11:47 am Well I don't want to make it too much about him in particular... I think there is a trend of the Raiders being overly sentimental though, including the coach
I think that’s fair and probably true of all fan bases
They have their “fan favourites” and they’re usually the less talented guys who appear to love the club the way the fans do and are those “give their all” types
Can forgive it in fans, but I see a bit of it in the club itself and coaching staff, hence Croker's massive contract etc, and I suspect they had the same attitude some here did after Simo's one good game
Yeah there is probably a bit of truth in that
This club is for better or worst (spoiler, it’s worse) run like a family business
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

Ok to comment briefly on Fence, I think it was a very brave decision by Stuart to drop and then axe him... but it was the right one. Fence was a Furner protege though so I wonder if it was just that bit easier for him to do
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by gangrenous »

Canberra Milk wrote: Similar story with Croker and CNK and others currently.
CNK is the opposite story. But I’m not going to convince you of that.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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I'll concede it's possible CNK is an attitude anchor player who lifts those around him, like Bateman etc. I'm not sure yet. But maybe
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Bay53 »

Might suddenly get him a lot cheaper than we could a month ago.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Stick the interest in the microwave and re-heat it.

If we are going to play bland and conservative Rickyball then we at least need to do it properly.

Dufty sniffing around Papa and an engaged Tapine and CHN would be good for at least a try every game or two I'd say.

At the moment who do we have that is even capable of finishing breaks or half breaks off the back of an offload?

Last night I think it was Hodgson in support for one of them...mowed down easily after about 7 metres.

Just get it done you incompetents.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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Hodgson was regularly running as first man in support last night. Embarrassing for the team and coaching staff, really.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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Dufty would look good following Papalii through the middle......
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Northern Raider »

Dufty named as one of the 12 Dragons beaching COVID protocols by going to the party at Paul Vaughan's place.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 4aa89d3b76
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

The old attack vs defence argument will never be resolved. It should be uncontroversial though that attack is *more* important than it used to be

I thought we utterly failed to capitalise on great momentum and dominance up the middle in the first 20-30 minutes. Some support play of say Dufty would have helped with that. Would it have ironed over all the ensuing defence problems though? No, of course not

Unfortunately we are in the position now where we are crap at both, hence our position on the ladder
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Bennyinthewest »

Way I see it is, having a gun attacking FB like him may have got us 3 tries from that period, 3 extra sets in attack that we didn't have to do any defence to get the ball back

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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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Seiffert82 wrote: July 5, 2021, 2:53 pm I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
Let's have a look at the top 4...

Storm- main FB is fast, can pass and small enough to be defensively targetted. Secondary FB is a great passer. Played Addo Carr on the wing even when he was 85kg wringing wet, because speed (but he's grown into a well rounded player).

Panthers- Charlie Staines at FB, defensively suspect speed merchant. Naden (noted suspect defender) on wing.

Eels- Gutho at FB, fairly quick and great passer/supporter. Also happens to be good defender imo.

Rabbitoes- Latrell at FB, best passing FB in the business, quick. Monster in defence. Doesn't waste his time doing aimless grunt work when not needed, just adds quality. Johnson- known defensive liability, but quick- on the wing.

I'm seeing a clear pattern of quick FB's who can pass, defensive qualities being a bonus. Also noted speedsters on one wing. Then they have usually one genuine big body or power player in the back 5 too. We have a slow FB who can't pass, slow wingers and no real power players yet (Timoko and Kris pending one more season I reckon).

It's a poorly selected back 5, maybe the worst in the comp or close too and it needs a major overhaul.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Mickey_Raider »

BadnMean wrote: July 5, 2021, 3:57 pm It's a poorly selected back 5, maybe the worst in the comp or close too and it needs a major overhaul.
This is what I was saying last year even when we were a top 6 side and with CNK.

And it has only obviously gotten worse since CNK went down and Father Time has continued to ravage the likes of Croker and Rapana.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by afgtnk »

Interesting - I went through to see the percentage of our tries the outside backs are scoring (players 2-5), from 2015 to now.

2015 - 41% (Crawley's first year)

2016 - 53%

2017 - 60%

2018 - 53% (Crawley's last year)

2019 - 47%

2020 - 33%

2021 - 38%

There's a few other factors other than Crawley (the loss of Leilua has been huge) but it says a lot I think. Had Rapa not lifted and Kris not come back on board to chip in a few, we'd be low 30s again.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

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BadnMean wrote: July 5, 2021, 3:57 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: July 5, 2021, 2:53 pm I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
Let's have a look at the top 4...

Storm- main FB is fast, can pass and small enough to be defensively targetted. Secondary FB is a great passer. Played Addo Carr on the wing even when he was 85kg wringing wet, because speed (but he's grown into a well rounded player).

Panthers- Charlie Staines at FB, defensively suspect speed merchant. Naden (noted suspect defender) on wing.

Eels- Gutho at FB, fairly quick and great passer/supporter. Also happens to be good defender imo.

Rabbitoes- Latrell at FB, best passing FB in the business, quick. Monster in defence. Doesn't waste his time doing aimless grunt work when not needed, just adds quality. Johnson- known defensive liability, but quick- on the wing.

I'm seeing a clear pattern of quick FB's who can pass, defensive qualities being a bonus. Also noted speedsters on one wing. Then they have usually one genuine big body or power player in the back 5 too. We have a slow FB who can't pass, slow wingers and no real power players yet (Timoko and Kris pending one more season I reckon).

It's a poorly selected back 5, maybe the worst in the comp or close too and it needs a major overhaul.
You can add Manly to the top 5. IMO those 5 team are lightyears ahead of the pack.

They all have great fullbacks. They all have great halfbacks. They all have top shelf hookers, except maybe Manly.

The top teams are solid right across the park.

Our halves are ****, our dummy half has struggled this season, our coaching sucks and our first choice fullback has had a season ending injury.

I'm not against bringing in any player who is better than any one of our existing players. At the moment that isn't hard. I'm just way more interested in getting a genuine halfback into this team, and hopefully a genuine 6 so we can move Jack into the back row and fix one of those problems too. A coach who can actually use his bench would be a massive bonus.

This whole NRL season has been as boring as bat**** for me. These blowout games are awful to watch. The refs are pulling decisions out of a hat and nobody knows what a penalty or a sinbin is these days. We are now 1000 miles off the pace.

I said at the start of the season that we were old and slow. Now we are old, slow and defensively gutless. The entire product sucks.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by gangrenous »

afgtnk wrote:Interesting - I went through to see the percentage of our tries the outside backs are scoring (players 2-5), from 2015 to now.

2015 - 41% (Crawley's first year)

2016 - 53%

2017 - 60%

2018 - 53% (Crawley's last year)

2019 - 47%

2020 - 33%

2021 - 38%

There's a few other factors other than Crawley (the loss of Leilua has been huge) but it says a lot I think. Had Rapa not lifted and Kris not come back on board to chip in a few, we'd be low 30s again.
Good stats Image

Highlights the focus on scoring through the middle, and our edges catching colds. It sucks.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Pete Cash »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 5, 2021, 2:53 pm I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
We convert that good field position into points in the first 30 minutes then it's the titans who start to feel the pressure of momentum.

Nrl players are only human. What is happening is that players are gassing out under pressure of how fast the game is

I think this very good article

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-n ... six-again/

Outlines the issues the bad teams face. It's critically important to score with field position and we aren't doing that. Would we have scored if it's dufty getting the offloads from papa at the start of the game and not hodgson ? I think it's more likely

That's not to say dufty solves everything but someone like dufty is required because he is fast and can play ball

The storm are honestly heading to a +500 f/a. There is a gigantic gap between sides. Wasting momentum is a death sentence in current year nrl
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by greeneyed »

Pete Cash wrote: July 6, 2021, 7:27 am
Seiffert82 wrote: July 5, 2021, 2:53 pm I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
We convert that good field position into points in the first 30 minutes then it's the titans who start to feel the pressure of momentum.

Nrl players are only human. What is happening is that players are gassing out under pressure of how fast the game is

I think this very good article

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-n ... six-again/

Outlines the issues the bad teams face. It's critically important to score with field position and we aren't doing that. Would we have scored if it's dufty getting the offloads from papa at the start of the game and not hodgson ? I think it's more likely

That's not to say dufty solves everything but someone like dufty is required because he is fast and can play ball

The storm are honestly heading to a +500 f/a. There is a gigantic gap between sides. Wasting momentum is a death sentence in current year nrl
It is a very good article.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by BadnMean »

Pete Cash wrote: July 6, 2021, 7:27 am
Seiffert82 wrote: July 5, 2021, 2:53 pm I'm yet to be convinced that attack is now the best form of defence in this comp. In fact, I think that's a complete furphy.

From where I am standing we were right in that Titans game for the first 30 minutes, despite the fact we leaked tons of field position when they tore us to shreds on the right 2 or 3 times. They scored 5 tries (28 points) in the two 10 minute periods either side of half time. 99% of that was due to a combination of poor attitude and not being well drilled.

Expecting a ball playing fullback, who is an absolute liability in defence and has a tendency to go AWOL more often than Sam Williams, to drag us out of this predicament is unbelievable to me.
We convert that good field position into points in the first 30 minutes then it's the titans who start to feel the pressure of momentum.

Nrl players are only human. What is happening is that players are gassing out under pressure of how fast the game is

I think this very good article

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-n ... six-again/

Outlines the issues the bad teams face. It's critically important to score with field position and we aren't doing that. Would we have scored if it's dufty getting the offloads from papa at the start of the game and not hodgson ? I think it's more likely

That's not to say dufty solves everything but someone like dufty is required because he is fast and can play ball

The storm are honestly heading to a +500 f/a. There is a gigantic gap between sides. Wasting momentum is a death sentence in current year nrl
Well put. The ability to do something when we are down there is missing + compounded by our inability to take advantage of the increased opportunity these days for long/medium range tries through tired and backedalling defences.

Psychologically it's a big thing too- scoring gives you a boost. Repeatedly missing out crushes you down a little bit. It's deflating, especially when in the back of your mind you know it's at least 4-5 tries to win a game these days and are lucky to score 1 or 2 even running with a howling gale spending an entire half down there.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Crash Ball »

Yeah, great article. Probably far more advanced than any level of analysis happening at NRL HQ.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by greeneyed »

Crash Ball wrote: July 6, 2021, 7:58 am Yeah, great article. Probably far more advanced than any level of analysis happening at NRL HQ.
I suspect they've got a lot of data - they have a data analyst specialist producing this stuff every week. But they use it to spin things, in general. Even Annesley had to admit yesterday that blowouts are a problem. And had to admit the "unhelpful" fact that the blowout in margins is greatest in games between top eight teams. It is not just top eight teams beating up on the rest. Wayne Bennett's "toxic club mismanagement" theory (which is probably true to some degree) can't be the main factor producing blowouts. It has to be the new rules.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: July 6, 2021, 8:36 am
Crash Ball wrote: July 6, 2021, 7:58 am Yeah, great article. Probably far more advanced than any level of analysis happening at NRL HQ.
I suspect they've got a lot of data - they have a data analyst specialist producing this stuff every week. But they use it to spin things, in general. Even Annesley had to admit yesterday that blowouts are a problem. And had to admit the "unhelpful" fact that the blowout in margins is greatest in games between top eight teams. It is not just top eight teams beating up on the rest. Wayne Bennett's "toxic club mismanagement" theory (which is probably true to some degree) can't be the main factor producing blowouts. It has to be the new rules.
Both are contributing factors, but the rules has greater weighting, yes.
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Re: Canberra Raiders reportedly cool interest in Matt Dufty

Post by Canberra Milk »

Ripper analysis in that article and you can take it to bed that the NRL would not have that level of analysis. If you've ever met people involved in rugby league, that would be clear.

I don't agree with every point, for example, they seem to like the old "random" penalties that would bring a lesser team into the contest. I don't. There are other ways to fix the problem other than reverting back to the old square-up penalty system. I agree with the premise though, and the boxing analogy, that we need more breaks to let the lesser team have a breather

He does mention scorer kicking off which is refreshing. He does not mention shortening the 10, even though going up and back 10m every tackle is a *major* contributor the fatigue. It would also allow you to win momentum back through your defence more easily, which is basically not possible now with the 10 metres

If we just reintroduce scrums though or other similar "breaks", that may be sufficient and I could live with it
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