Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

The Canberra Raiders will move to lock down their off-contract trio of forwards. The Green Machine only has three players they need to tie down longer term with Ryan Sutton, Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh all contracted until the end 2022.

"They're well and truly in the plans of the future of this club," Ricky Stuart said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 33c2c02fda
Image
User avatar
BadnMean
Steve Walters
Posts: 7595
Joined: May 13, 2013, 5:30 pm
Favourite Player: chicka

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: October 31, 2021, 5:50 pm Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

The Canberra Raiders will move to lock down their off-contract trio of forwards. The Green Machine only has three players they need to tie down longer term with Ryan Sutton, Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh all contracted until the end 2022.

"They're well and truly in the plans of the future of this club," Ricky Stuart said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280
Hors needs to pull his finger out. Plain and simple. He drops the ball and gets flustered/plays dumb because he's not fit. We all make worse decisions under fatigue. He doesn't (hasn't) helped himself off the field in this regard. He is not the ultimate professional and it shows.

Sutton was good last year. I doubt we'll have to break the bank for him but he's a solid prop option. Added a bit of oomph to his work last year.

CHN I feel like he was playing catch up his first season and then ran into a team without a clue how to use him most of last season. A genuine top quality attacking backrower if we get him involved properly.
User avatar
bonehead
Laurie Daley
Posts: 17436
Joined: March 1, 2005, 5:29 am
Location: Smelling The Shiraz

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by bonehead »

BadnMean wrote:
greeneyed wrote: October 31, 2021, 5:50 pm Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

The Canberra Raiders will move to lock down their off-contract trio of forwards. The Green Machine only has three players they need to tie down longer term with Ryan Sutton, Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh all contracted until the end 2022.

"They're well and truly in the plans of the future of this club," Ricky Stuart said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280
Hors needs to pull his finger out. Plain and simple. He drops the ball and gets flustered/plays dumb because he's not fit. We all make worse decisions under fatigue. He doesn't (hasn't) helped himself off the field in this regard. He is not the ultimate professional and it shows.

Sutton was good last year. I doubt we'll have to break the bank for him but he's a solid prop option. Added a bit of oomph to his work last year.

CHN I feel like he was playing catch up his first season and then ran into a team without a clue how to use him most of last season. A genuine top quality attacking backrower if we get him involved properly.
Hors and CHN going through that early 20s physical change too, CHN was playing some centres at the black cats and at the dogs whereas no way now. Hors was a rangy thing until the last 2yrs so will be interesting if he can push to the next levels he threatened to do early on.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Edrick The Entertainer
Hong Kong Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4691
Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

BadnMean wrote: October 31, 2021, 8:26 pm
greeneyed wrote: October 31, 2021, 5:50 pm Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

The Canberra Raiders will move to lock down their off-contract trio of forwards. The Green Machine only has three players they need to tie down longer term with Ryan Sutton, Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh all contracted until the end 2022.

"They're well and truly in the plans of the future of this club," Ricky Stuart said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280
Hors needs to pull his finger out. Plain and simple. He drops the ball and gets flustered/plays dumb because he's not fit. We all make worse decisions under fatigue. He doesn't (hasn't) helped himself off the field in this regard. He is not the ultimate professional and it shows.

Sutton was good last year. I doubt we'll have to break the bank for him but he's a solid prop option. Added a bit of oomph to his work last year.

CHN I feel like he was playing catch up his first season and then ran into a team without a clue how to use him most of last season. A genuine top quality attacking backrower if we get him involved properly.
Completely agree. The last few games he played for us were shockingly bad with his drop balls. From SOO Qld prospect in 2019 to barely a first grader. His body (and I suspect his diet) does not match that of an elite athlete. With their age, you expected Whitehead, Sia, Hodgson and Croker to deteriorate but I didn't expect that from Horse. Again, like Hodgson, he came back from a serious injury so will give him the benefit of the doubt. Sutton was good in the beginning but not the back half of last season. Also has a mistake in him.

CHN was one of our best players last year and I have been critical of him in the past giving away too many penalties. He thoroughly deserved his starting spot. I want to see the same from Adam Elliott.
sprintman
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1473
Joined: July 11, 2015, 5:57 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Location: Canberra

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by sprintman »

Hors can go to the Dolphins. Not fit enough for the modern game.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

Why wouldn’t we just try to get him fit enough? He has at least another year at the club. Maybe more.
Image
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

And a pretty good column from The Sportress.

Image
sprintman
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1473
Joined: July 11, 2015, 5:57 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Location: Canberra

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by sprintman »

greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 8:30 am Why wouldn’t we just try to get him fit enough? He has at least another year at the club. Maybe more.
You can’t force a player to eat properly or get fit. He simply isn’t a professional..
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

sprintman wrote: November 1, 2021, 12:56 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 8:30 am Why wouldn’t we just try to get him fit enough? He has at least another year at the club. Maybe more.
You can’t force a player to eat properly or get fit. He simply isn’t a professional..
That's an extremely harsh statement, at the least, given the injuries he's endured.
Image
FROG
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1594
Joined: April 7, 2008, 8:14 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by FROG »

I'm with you on this one GE. I still think hors has a big role to play at the raiders. He has had a tough run with injuries, but hopefully he can put that behind him and become the player we know he is capable of. No middle under the age of 25 is void of lapses and dumb decisions. Hors is no different.
sprintman
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1473
Joined: July 11, 2015, 5:57 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Location: Canberra

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by sprintman »

greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 12:58 pm
sprintman wrote: November 1, 2021, 12:56 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 8:30 am Why wouldn’t we just try to get him fit enough? He has at least another year at the club. Maybe more.
You can’t force a player to eat properly or get fit. He simply isn’t a professional..
That's an extremely harsh statement, at the least, given the injuries he's endured.
He’s had years.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

Yet before his Lisfranc injury, he was playing well and showing a great deal of promise.
Image
User avatar
bonehead
Laurie Daley
Posts: 17436
Joined: March 1, 2005, 5:29 am
Location: Smelling The Shiraz

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by bonehead »

greeneyed wrote:Yet before his Lisfranc injury, he was playing well and showing a great deal of promise.
Lisfranc takes at least 18 months to get over, I expect a lot more next season.
Yes he struggled with fitness this season but when he played nsw cup he was dominant and then injury cruelled his season.
I've got faith

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Edrick The Entertainer
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

I don't see any of these 3 as shifting the needle dramatically. I think they're all replaceable if we lose them.
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4345
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I'd say that CHN has the potential to be a needle mover. He would be my priority to re-sign as he offers a point of difference and can actually run lines and be a dynamic 2nd rower as opposed to just a workhorse.

I think I am probably slightly below others in how highly they rate Sutton. But he is a perfectly cromulent player to have in the prop rotation. I'd offer him market value and be pleased if he stays. If he was offered more to play somewhere else, it wouldn't be the end of the world though.

I absolutely would not be rushing to re-sign Hors. If he can't get back to his 2019 form — at a bare minimum — I would organise his Jetstar tickets for Redcliffe. And even if he did show signs of form, I still wouldn't be rushing into anything if he is still showing signs that he isn't willing to get into proper, consistent NRL shape. Because when he isn't in shape he becomes fatigued easily, makes stupid errors and is more susceptible to injuries.
Up The Milk
User avatar
Raiders_Pat
John Ferguson
Posts: 2049
Joined: July 24, 2016, 8:11 am
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Harawira-Naera is the priority. Sutton and Horsburgh are the type of guys you'd want to extend provided the dollar figure is sensible. You shouldn't be fighting off other clubs for their signatures imo. Particularly Horsburgh... I understand he's had injuries but I'd want him to show some consistency before committing to an extension. He should be playing for a contract. He's not the type of guy you lock up to prevent going to the open market imo.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Mickey_Raider wrote: November 1, 2021, 3:18 pm I'd say that CHN has the potential to be a needle mover. He would be my priority to re-sign as he offers a point of difference and can actually run lines and be a dynamic 2nd rower as opposed to just a workhorse.

I think I am probably slightly below others in how highly they rate Sutton. But he is a perfectly cromulent player to have in the prop rotation. I'd offer him market value and be pleased if he stays. If he was offered more to play somewhere else, it wouldn't be the end of the world though.

I absolutely would not be rushing to re-sign Hors. If he can't get back to his 2019 form — at a bare minimum — I would organise his Jetstar tickets for Redcliffe. And even if he did show signs of form, I still wouldn't be rushing into anything if he is still showing signs that he isn't willing to get into proper, consistent NRL shape. Because when he isn't in shape he becomes fatigued easily, makes stupid errors and is more susceptible to injuries.
Yeah if we can learn to utilise CHN and he can stay on the paddock then there's potential there. But we're talking about a guy who is 26 so eventually he needs to get that consistency.

Sutton if the price is right I'm happy to retain, but as a prop.

Hors hasn't gone close to earning his keep the last few seasons. I don't like the message it sends around the club if we're already looking to extend him.
Hong Kong Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4691
Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 1, 2021, 5:27 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 1, 2021, 3:18 pm I'd say that CHN has the potential to be a needle mover. He would be my priority to re-sign as he offers a point of difference and can actually run lines and be a dynamic 2nd rower as opposed to just a workhorse.

I think I am probably slightly below others in how highly they rate Sutton. But he is a perfectly cromulent player to have in the prop rotation. I'd offer him market value and be pleased if he stays. If he was offered more to play somewhere else, it wouldn't be the end of the world though.

I absolutely would not be rushing to re-sign Hors. If he can't get back to his 2019 form — at a bare minimum — I would organise his Jetstar tickets for Redcliffe. And even if he did show signs of form, I still wouldn't be rushing into anything if he is still showing signs that he isn't willing to get into proper, consistent NRL shape. Because when he isn't in shape he becomes fatigued easily, makes stupid errors and is more susceptible to injuries.
Yeah if we can learn to utilise CHN and he can stay on the paddock then there's potential there. But we're talking about a guy who is 26 so eventually he needs to get that consistency.

Sutton if the price is right I'm happy to retain, but as a prop.

Hors hasn't gone close to earning his keep the last few seasons. I don't like the message it sends around the club if we're already looking to extend him.
Ricky and the club may be smart enough to extend him for one year to the end of 2023 with his value matching his 2021 performance (which is a minimum $150,000 contract), with only upside if he gets his act together and performs like he did in 2019. It's like buying stocks - buy low with only upside - but after one year if it doesn't go up as much as you would expect, there's not so much downside if you get rid of it.

Personally I would like all three to stay but Sutton's skills you could find elsewhere, Horse needs to be more consistent and I think CHN is our best edge forward based on 2021 form.
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12409
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Billy Walker »

2021 we were well off the pace and finished out of the 8 and light years away from the top 4. We seem to be putting a lot of faith in that same squad finding another gear. Yes some younger player have improvement in them but geez we have some older players are on the slide. Our new signings don’t hugely outclass the players we have parted with. I’m just struggling to see where the improvement is coming from. CHN has potential but Sutton and Hors are meh if you ask me.
User avatar
Schifty
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16467
Joined: March 14, 2010, 4:00 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Schifty »

Announcing that you plan to retain an underperforming player is the ultimate 4D chess move.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Botman »

CHN has his faults and they can and frankly SHOULD be easily managed
i question the nous of posters saying we take him or leave him... Happy to upgrade him and move on... but where is that upgrade?

Who in the sqaud can do what he does as an edge? Who's coming through who is a legitmate edge forward?
Which edge forward in this team creates space and time with his line running and tackle breaking threat? I've banged on about it but he's the only guy in the team who can run a legit edge line, he's the only guy who's line dragged in and froze defenders and created space outside him. I know he has his issues with areas of play, but they are so easily correctable and there is so much he provides that literally no one on this roster gives us... im stunned people can't see it.

Even if you're Roger who irrationally hates him...do we even have 2 NRL quality edge forwards beyond him? Who are they? Whitehead who might be better suited to the middle given his age and deminished athletic ability? Young who is 10000000% better suited to the middle and you're fool if you still think he's an edge based on what he's shown so far... Elliott? Who maybe? Probably? sucks?


Sutton is a very good middle, id be keen to keep him, he's still a few years off his best footy. And his moter is good and defence is good. That's a good baseline to have. Not someone you overpay, but someone who should get what he deserves and is a good contributor.

Hors is the type of player i think coaches fall for because he cares and he's passionate, but there is just a feeling that he's never going to be a guy that gets it all together. Reminds me a lot of Mitch Barnett who's a perfectly cromulant footballer but not someone you regret letting go in hindsight (and i was wrong about that, i thought we would with Barnett)
Hong Kong Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4691
Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

In answer to Botman, Mitch Barnett, Scott Sorensen, Shannon Boyd, Kai O Donnell, Clay Priest, Jack Murchie, Paul Vaughan - no regrets having let them go. Some weren't even first graders (and still aren't). Only regret is Junior Paulo who has become a better player but didn't spend long with us anyway or was a junior with us

In terms of backs - Blake Austin, Edrick Lee, Brenko Lee, Zac Santo, Nic Cotric, Aidan Sezer - no regrets. Only regrets are GWilliams (but his form was pretty poor this year for obvious reasons) and I would have liked to seen Brent Naden been given a chance, although I do understand it was difficult breaking into our side back then when he was with NSW Cup side Mounties.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

Scott Sorensen has a premiership ring today. Mark Nicholls just played a Grand Final. You need players like that who do a job… there’s two we let go.

How about Michael Monaghan, Mark Bryant and Michael Robertson?

There’s a lot of disrespecting good players in our squad who’ll do a good job. And we’ve been on this merry go round before.
Image
Hong Kong Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4691
Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Don't think I was disrespecting anyone. Players move on for different reasons, whether to obtain an opportunity for first grade or a better contract. You cannot fit them all in and there's only a squad of 30.
This happens in all clubs. And of course different players in that 30 have different roles and cap value.
I was just pointing out that we have no regrets in letting the people go that I mentioned above - whether it's for price (such as Shannon Boyd), we were moving in another direction (Blake Austin/Joey/ Eddie/Sezer), or better opportunities to play first grade that weren't available with us at the time (Sorensen, Murchie, Santo, O' Donnell, Priest, Naden, Brenko)
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12409
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Billy Walker »

It’s extraordinary the attachment that some form to any player that spends time in the raiders squad. There seems to be no concept that it’s a business where clubs and players both need to make calls in their best interest for success. This notion of holding players in the same regard as family members will never see us find success.

If you’re a successful greyhound trainer you keep the fast ones. The ones that win you races, not the slow ones with a friendly disposition or the cute looking slow ones - you only feed the quick winners and the rest you ship off the make pets for inner city hipsters.

I agree with Botman that CHN has a skillet worth keeping and improving. Beyond that Sutton is a very middle of the road player that is unlikely to find greater heights and it’s time for us to find Hors an inner city hipster.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:09 pm CHN has his faults and they can and frankly SHOULD be easily managed
i question the nous of posters saying we take him or leave him... Happy to upgrade him and move on... but where is that upgrade?

Who in the sqaud can do what he does as an edge? Who's coming through who is a legitmate edge forward?
Which edge forward in this team creates space and time with his line running and tackle breaking threat? I've banged on about it but he's the only guy in the team who can run a legit edge line, he's the only guy who's line dragged in and froze defenders and created space outside him. I know he has his issues with areas of play, but they are so easily correctable and there is so much he provides that literally no one on this roster gives us... im stunned people can't see it.

Even if you're Roger who irrationally hates him...do we even have 2 NRL quality edge forwards beyond him? Who are they? Whitehead who might be better suited to the middle given his age and deminished athletic ability? Young who is 10000000% better suited to the middle and you're fool if you still think he's an edge based on what he's shown so far... Elliott? Who maybe? Probably? sucks?


Sutton is a very good middle, id be keen to keep him, he's still a few years off his best footy. And his moter is good and defence is good. That's a good baseline to have. Not someone you overpay, but someone who should get what he deserves and is a good contributor.

Hors is the type of player i think coaches fall for because he cares and he's passionate, but there is just a feeling that he's never going to be a guy that gets it all together. Reminds me a lot of Mitch Barnett who's a perfectly cromulant footballer but not someone you regret letting go in hindsight (and i was wrong about that, i thought we would with Barnett)
CHN managed 15 games in 2021, so ill discipline and drink driving cost him 40% of the season. I'm glad you're not an accountant cos that's a poor ROI, and brought on entirely by his actions. I was excited when we signed him, with some reservations. He just hasn't had the output on the paddock for me to get excited, yes he leads us in highlights plays in the backrow but his availability and reasonably consistent brain fades on D cancel out all that good stuff.

We also went 6-9 in his 15 games so we weren't some unbeatable beast with him in the squad.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:43 pm Scott Sorensen has a premiership ring today. Mark Nicholls just played a Grand Final. You need players like that who do a job… there’s two we let go.

How about Michael Monaghan, Mark Bryant and Michael Robertson?

There’s a lot of disrespecting good players in our squad who’ll do a good job. And we’ve been on this merry go round before.
Hmm. Last year the two Corey's both missed time for drink driving. To CHN's credit he at least had his body ready for FG when his suspension was over and he'd had a few weeks in reggies. Hors was miles off the pace all season in large part due to drink driving, and you're worried about people disrespecting him?
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 2, 2021, 6:48 am
Botman wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:09 pm CHN has his faults and they can and frankly SHOULD be easily managed
i question the nous of posters saying we take him or leave him... Happy to upgrade him and move on... but where is that upgrade?

Who in the squad can do what he does as an edge? Who's coming through who is a legitimate edge forward?
Which edge forward in this team creates space and time with his line running and tackle breaking threat? I've banged on about it but he's the only guy in the team who can run a legit edge line, he's the only guy who's line dragged in and froze defenders and created space outside him. I know he has his issues with areas of play, but they are so easily correctable and there is so much he provides that literally no one on this roster gives us... im stunned people can't see it.

Even if you're Roger who irrationally hates him...do we even have 2 NRL quality edge forwards beyond him? Who are they? Whitehead who might be better suited to the middle given his age and diminished athletic ability? Young who is 10000000% better suited to the middle and you're fool if you still think he's an edge based on what he's shown so far... Elliott? Who maybe? Probably? sucks?


Sutton is a very good middle, id be keen to keep him, he's still a few years off his best footy. And his moter is good and defence is good. That's a good baseline to have. Not someone you overpay, but someone who should get what he deserves and is a good contributor.

Hors is the type of player i think coaches fall for because he cares and he's passionate, but there is just a feeling that he's never going to be a guy that gets it all together. Reminds me a lot of Mitch Barnett who's a perfectly cromulent footballer but not someone you regret letting go in hindsight (and i was wrong about that, i thought we would with Barnett)
CHN managed 15 games in 2021, so ill discipline and drink driving cost him 40% of the season. I'm glad you're not an accountant cos that's a poor ROI, and brought on entirely by his actions. I was excited when we signed him, with some reservations. He just hasn't had the output on the paddock for me to get excited, yes he leads us in highlights plays in the backrow but his availability and reasonably consistent brain fades on D cancel out all that good stuff.

We also went 6-9 in his 15 games so we weren't some unbeatable beast with him in the squad.
I mean if that's where we're at here Rog, for an edge forward, I got nothing for you. Team wins is a edge forward stat now? Be serious.
We went 10-14 on the season, Rog. This was not a good football team :lol:

His on field issues you highlight are so easily correctable. His defensive lapses are simply chasing the football out of marker and being out of position. When he was in position, he was fine defensively. And actually statistically our best edge forward in that regard. And the eye test backed that up too. Penalties? Yeah he gives away some stupid ones and needs to clean it up, but when looking at our football team, it's not like Young or Whitehead are good in this area, they're giving away plenty themselves, and defensive lapses too, however neither of can have the impact as a hole runner that he can have.

As for his suspension, it was drastically reduced in time to serve because he was such a clean skin with the judiciary, so he's not out here taking dudes heads off and missing games with foul play. That's not his style at all, it was a tight game, a key game, really our last chance to kick start the season, and he was trying to make a play and mistimed a hit on a smaller dude... i think given the circumstances and his clean record, and his clear contrition about that, we can safely say that's not an issue we need to worry about now.

Off the field, AFAIC (and im not really interested in relitigating the bulldogs departure, my views on that were made at the time of his signing and have not changed) his indiscretions total one DD charge. Not great, obviously. I find DD from highly paid athletes to be one of the most infuriating things they can do given they have enough income to never even drive and uber everywhere, but DD is unfortunately something a lot of people still do. He served that suspension and some additional "message sending" from Stuart (curious if that message remains consistent with Rapana)
But it's one incident.

CHN is so clearly and obviously the best edge forward on this roster and I question the sanity of anyone who refused to accept that fact. And fine if you want to upgrade that spot, he's a good player but he's not in the class of the very elite at the position, and I subscribe to the theory that you always be trying to upgrade. Even peak Josh Papalii, who's one of the best middle forwards in the game, if you can find a way to get a player better than him on the roster, you do it. No reason not to add a good player just because you have one already, you can just have two good players then.

And again, where is that upgrade? What edge forward do you want to go and get on the market now that you think is better. Kikau is the obvious answer... you want to pay 1m a year for Kikau given our lack of ball playing? Good luck with that given your bluster about ROI. As said there is no chance an upgrade exists on the roster unless you want to try sell me on Adam Elliott as being better. I'd be thrilled to hear that case get put forward :lol:

So again, this idea that CHN is someone we can just let walk and replaceable him falls over pretty damn quickly.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 9:10 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 2, 2021, 6:48 am
Botman wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:09 pm CHN has his faults and they can and frankly SHOULD be easily managed
i question the nous of posters saying we take him or leave him... Happy to upgrade him and move on... but where is that upgrade?

Who in the squad can do what he does as an edge? Who's coming through who is a legitimate edge forward?
Which edge forward in this team creates space and time with his line running and tackle breaking threat? I've banged on about it but he's the only guy in the team who can run a legit edge line, he's the only guy who's line dragged in and froze defenders and created space outside him. I know he has his issues with areas of play, but they are so easily correctable and there is so much he provides that literally no one on this roster gives us... im stunned people can't see it.

Even if you're Roger who irrationally hates him...do we even have 2 NRL quality edge forwards beyond him? Who are they? Whitehead who might be better suited to the middle given his age and diminished athletic ability? Young who is 10000000% better suited to the middle and you're fool if you still think he's an edge based on what he's shown so far... Elliott? Who maybe? Probably? sucks?


Sutton is a very good middle, id be keen to keep him, he's still a few years off his best footy. And his moter is good and defence is good. That's a good baseline to have. Not someone you overpay, but someone who should get what he deserves and is a good contributor.

Hors is the type of player i think coaches fall for because he cares and he's passionate, but there is just a feeling that he's never going to be a guy that gets it all together. Reminds me a lot of Mitch Barnett who's a perfectly cromulent footballer but not someone you regret letting go in hindsight (and i was wrong about that, i thought we would with Barnett)
CHN managed 15 games in 2021, so ill discipline and drink driving cost him 40% of the season. I'm glad you're not an accountant cos that's a poor ROI, and brought on entirely by his actions. I was excited when we signed him, with some reservations. He just hasn't had the output on the paddock for me to get excited, yes he leads us in highlights plays in the backrow but his availability and reasonably consistent brain fades on D cancel out all that good stuff.

We also went 6-9 in his 15 games so we weren't some unbeatable beast with him in the squad.
I mean if that's where we're at here Rog, for an edge forward, I got nothing for you. Team wins is a edge forward stat now? Be serious.
We went 10-14 on the season, Rog. This was not a good football team :lol:

His on field issues you highlight are so easily correctable. His defensive lapses are simply chasing the football out of marker and being out of position. When he was in position, he was fine defensively. And actually statistically our best edge forward in that regard. And the eye test backed that up too. Penalties? Yeah he gives away some stupid ones and needs to clean it up, but when looking at our football team, it's not like Young or Whitehead are good in this area, they're giving away plenty themselves, and defensive lapses too, however neither of can have the impact as a hole runner that he can have.

As for his suspension, it was drastically reduced in time to serve because he was such a clean skin with the judiciary, so he's not out here taking dudes heads off and missing games with foul play. That's not his style at all, it was a tight game, a key game, really our last chance to kick start the season, and he was trying to make a play and mistimed a hit on a smaller dude... i think given the circumstances and his clean record, and his clear contrition about that, we can safely say that's not an issue we need to worry about now.

Off the field, AFAIC (and im not really interested in relitigating the bulldogs departure, my views on that were made at the time of his signing and have not changed) his indiscretions total one DD charge. Not great, obviously. I find DD from highly paid athletes to be one of the most infuriating things they can do given they have enough income to never even drive and uber everywhere, but DD is unfortunately something a lot of people still do. He served that suspension and some additional "message sending" from Stuart (curious if that message remains consistent with Rapana)
But it's one incident.

CHN is so clearly and obviously the best edge forward on this roster and I question the sanity of anyone who refused to accept that fact. And fine if you want to upgrade that spot, he's a good player but he's not in the class of the very elite at the position, and I subscribe to the theory that you always be trying to upgrade. Even peak Josh Papalii, who's one of the best middle forwards in the game, if you can find a way to get a player better than him on the roster, you do it. No reason not to add a good player just because you have one already, you can just have two good players then.

And again, where is that upgrade? What edge forward do you want to go and get on the market now that you think is better. Kikau is the obvious answer... you want to pay 1m a year for Kikau given our lack of ball playing? Good luck with that given your bluster about ROI. As said there is no chance an upgrade exists on the roster unless you want to try sell me on Adam Elliott as being better. I'd be thrilled to hear that case get put forward :lol:

So again, this idea that CHN is someone we can just let walk and replaceable him falls over pretty damn quickly.
Yup but we were talking about players that shift the needle. CHN being in and out of the team this season had no noticeable impact on our performance despite him being our best edge forward, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. 84m gained/match and 4 linebreaks all season does not an elite attacking second rower make.

There may not necessarily be a ready made replacement out there but it doesn't mean you bend over backwards to retain a run of the mill performer. This narrative that CHN had some sort of top tier season on the back of a couple of impressive tries is very strange, I haven't heard anyone outside of Raiders fans thinking this.
User avatar
Raiders_Pat
John Ferguson
Posts: 2049
Joined: July 24, 2016, 8:11 am
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Raiders_Pat »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 2, 2021, 11:01 am
Yup but we were talking about players that shift the needle. CHN being in and out of the team this season had no noticeable impact on our performance despite him being our best edge forward, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. 84m gained/match and 4 linebreaks all season does not an elite attacking second rower make.

There may not necessarily be a ready made replacement out there but it doesn't mean you bend over backwards to retain a run of the mill performer. This narrative that CHN had some sort of top tier season on the back of a couple of impressive tries is very strange, I haven't heard anyone outside of Raiders fans thinking this.
I can't recall there ever being a narrative that Harawira-Naera had a top tier season this year. The only narrative I've seen on here is that he's an ordinary player, then you've got others countering that narrative. Harawira-Naera is hands down the best second rower in our squad. Nobody outside of Raiders fans would suggest otherwise aside from people who have barely watched us play since we played in the grand final. If all of our second rowers went to market today, Harawira-Naera would field the best offers. No way anybody is paying Young or Whitehead close to what they would be willing to pay him. Also, you need to consider the fact that he was playing off the bench for much of 2021 (massive waste). He will prove doubters wrong with more time in his preferred position at second row.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Botman »

No noticeable impact on our performance?
From a wins and loses stand point, fine... for whatever wins and loses are worth when talking about a single player.

But in terms of actual on field performance... HARD disagree. Granted that side of the footy didn't get a ton of good football this year, it felt to me like the entire game plan was to settle middle or to the right on tackle 3 and take the vast majority of our set/shot plays to the left attacking side through Wighton on tackle 4 and then kick when that didnt work...

but when the ball did come right in quality positions, the impact of having him out there and threat he posed as a line breaker was incredibly noticeable imo.
I've said it a few times in relation to him but his presence on the edge as the ball runner was impactful and also he was as a lead runner, he froze defenders, which allowed the outside men to play into more space and straighten up, rather than get ushered toward the sideline by sliding defenders. We got a few nice easy tries out of that, but not as many as we should have because the #7 and #1 spots were black holes, but the impact was definitely there and noticeable. That side of the footy was WAY more threatening with him out there than not. I think that was so clear that to not see it you'd have to be blind.

And again I'm not saying he's superstar elite player, literally said that in the post, but he's much better than you give him credit for. He's a good quality starting NRL player, not elite or a superstar, just a good player who showed this year that when used correctly he's an attacking threat, particularly in the red zone.
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12409
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 11:52 am No noticeable impact on our performance?
From a wins and loses stand point, fine... for whatever wins and loses are worth when talking about a single player.

But in terms of actual on field performance... HARD disagree. Granted that side of the footy didn't get a ton of good football this year, it felt to me like the entire game plan was to settle middle or to the right on tackle 3 and take the vast majority of our set/shot plays to the left attacking side through Wighton on tackle 4 and then kick when that didnt work...

but when the ball did come right in quality positions, the impact of having him out there and threat he posed as a line breaker was incredibly noticeable imo.
I've said it a few times in relation to him but his presence on the edge as the ball runner was impactful and also he was as a lead runner, he froze defenders, which allowed the outside men to play into more space and straighten up, rather than get ushered toward the sideline by sliding defenders. We got a few nice easy tries out of that, but not as many as we should have because the #7 and #1 spots were black holes, but the impact was definitely there and noticeable. That side of the footy was WAY more threatening with him out there than not. I think that was so clear that to not see it you'd have to be blind.

And again I'm not saying he's superstar elite player, literally said that in the post, but he's much better than you give him credit for. He's a good quality starting NRL player, not elite or a superstar, just a good player who showed this year that when used correctly he's an attacking threat, particularly in the red zone.
Good call - I expect him to build on 2021 and agree he needs to see more attacking ball
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by greeneyed »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 2, 2021, 7:02 am
greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:43 pm Scott Sorensen has a premiership ring today. Mark Nicholls just played a Grand Final. You need players like that who do a job… there’s two we let go.

How about Michael Monaghan, Mark Bryant and Michael Robertson?

There’s a lot of disrespecting good players in our squad who’ll do a good job. And we’ve been on this merry go round before.
Hmm. Last year the two Corey's both missed time for drink driving. To CHN's credit he at least had his body ready for FG when his suspension was over and he'd had a few weeks in reggies. Hors was miles off the pace all season in large part due to drink driving, and you're worried about people disrespecting him?
I was not impressed with the off field incident , but I don’t think his fitness was in large part due to that. Rather his injury.
Image
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: November 2, 2021, 11:52 am No noticeable impact on our performance?
From a wins and loses stand point, fine... for whatever wins and loses are worth when talking about a single player.

But in terms of actual on field performance... HARD disagree. Granted that side of the footy didn't get a ton of good football this year, it felt to me like the entire game plan was to settle middle or to the right on tackle 3 and take the vast majority of our set/shot plays to the left attacking side through Wighton on tackle 4 and then kick when that didnt work...

but when the ball did come right in quality positions, the impact of having him out there and threat he posed as a line breaker was incredibly noticeable imo.
I've said it a few times in relation to him but his presence on the edge as the ball runner was impactful and also he was as a lead runner, he froze defenders, which allowed the outside men to play into more space and straighten up, rather than get ushered toward the sideline by sliding defenders. We got a few nice easy tries out of that, but not as many as we should have because the #7 and #1 spots were black holes, but the impact was definitely there and noticeable. That side of the footy was WAY more threatening with him out there than not. I think that was so clear that to not see it you'd have to be blind.

And again I'm not saying he's superstar elite player, literally said that in the post, but he's much better than you give him credit for. He's a good quality starting NRL player, not elite or a superstar, just a good player who showed this year that when used correctly he's an attacking threat, particularly in the red zone.
Yeah that's a big thing for me, he tends to go missing for large chunks of games. We can blame his inside men for a lot of that this season, Sammy W just doesn't have the type of game anymore where he can put his ball runners in good situations. I actually think the difference was marginal with him in the side, let's hope Fogarty is a vast improvement in getting him involved as the rest of the team will benefit from the extra defensive attention he commands.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11506
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: Canberra Raiders plan to lock up off-contract trio

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

greeneyed wrote: November 2, 2021, 12:17 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 2, 2021, 7:02 am
greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2021, 9:43 pm Scott Sorensen has a premiership ring today. Mark Nicholls just played a Grand Final. You need players like that who do a job… there’s two we let go.

How about Michael Monaghan, Mark Bryant and Michael Robertson?

There’s a lot of disrespecting good players in our squad who’ll do a good job. And we’ve been on this merry go round before.
Hmm. Last year the two Corey's both missed time for drink driving. To CHN's credit he at least had his body ready for FG when his suspension was over and he'd had a few weeks in reggies. Hors was miles off the pace all season in large part due to drink driving, and you're worried about people disrespecting him?
I was not impressed with the off field incident , but I don’t think his fitness was in large part due to that. Rather his injury.
Did you think he had the requisite fitness for a first grader prior to his injury? My impression was he was off the pace all season.
Post Reply