Nick Cotric returns to Raiders on three year deal

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Raiders666 »

Finchy wrote: November 24, 2021, 6:21 pm So for outside backs we would have CNK, Rapana, Cotric, Croker, Kris, Savage, Timoko, HSS, and Semi battling it out for 5 spots?
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Rickmando »

papabear wrote: November 24, 2021, 6:20 pm
Rickmando wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:58 pm
Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
Semi is flat out garbage - he’s had long enough to show he’s barely a first grader. Not all Fijians are Nadruku or Radradra.

Cotric on the other hand is a rep player who hasn’t even hit the prime of his career yet. He’s well above league-average for his position… and how many players do we have that clear that threshold? Outside of Papalii, I’m not sure we have many more.

This is a no brainer
Semi isnt flat out garbage - he just always finishes the season on a **** game.

Semi is faster then cotric for one.

He is coming off an injury and a pretty average year and realistically he hasn't been improving year on year.

Statistically
Cotric Played 12 games scored 3 tries - 7 LB (2 against us) 0 LBA
Semi Played 11 scored 2 tries - 1 LB 1 LBA

Interestingly, since they are both garbage at getting tries lets have a look at what they bring re metres to start sets:-
Cotric - All runs - 193 - ARM - 1817 - 9.1 meters per run
Semi - All runs - 145 - ARM 1573 - 10.8 meters per run
so despite getting in the clear less - in 2021 semi clearly averages more meters in each run, in very comparable runs.

Defensively
Cotric - T 68 MT 22
Semi - T 41 MT 14
about even there

Errors
Cotric 17
Semi 15

Thus, Nic Cotric statistically isnt doing much more then semi, the only reason I would pick him up if I were the raiders is if it is on a bargain basement deal where we are only paying 200-300k anymore and he can keep stinking it up for the dogs.

Keep in mind the tigers didnt want him.
I barely recall a game where Semi has not been a net negative for us.

I’m not interested in stats - it’s clear from watching that one player belongs in the highest echelons of the game, and the other isn’t even an average first grader. This is clear to most if not all.

And the myth that Semi “has a high ceiling” really must stop. High ceiling players immediately show characteristics that they belong on the same field as more experienced players and demonstrate rapid improvement across early games. We haven’t seen it with Semi thus far, and we aren’t going to
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Finchy »

I’m actually surprised Ricky backed Semi after last year’s debacle. He usually likes a scape goat, like Edrick, BJ. I’m surprised Semi wasn’t shot out of a cannon never to be seen again
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Love4Noa »

Semi is an absolute talent.

Kid needs some consistent game time week in week out. I can't fathom how people suggest otherwise.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Northern Raider »

Dogs won't find anybody to take on his full contract value. Comes back to how much they are willing to swallow. I don't see another club paying much north of $400k for him. Are Dogs willing to wear $200k for 2 years?
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Billy Walker »

Hmmm - I’m not sure about this. I think we need to tread carefully here. There is a fair chance Nicko played his best footy 2 years ago. He hasn’t shown he can play anywhere but wing, and he isn’t the quickest winger getting around. He was great for us but will he get back there? On latest form he is a winger the worst team in the comp is looking to offload early on his contract.

I won’t hate it if the deal gets done but it would need to be a good deal. It would be a huge loss if bringing him back cost us HSS or Timoko down the track. I see both those 2 as having more potential here and now.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by nachopants »

Mother of god please let this happen
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Love4Noa »

I could warm to a cotric simmonson wing combo with hss and tomoko on the other side.

Savage as a 14 until he takes over from CNK maybe.

Rapa and Croker to tidy up the loose ends before retiring as club legends
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by BadnMean »

Have I gone mad or are people actually suggesting Semi is as good as as 23 year old Origin and Oz rep, with 103 fg games and 49 tries...

Semi made 1 LB last year... In half a season... he dropped it 400 times.

Foxsports stats have Cotric at 12 errors, Semi at 14 and in 3 less games... And that's in a bad season for Cotric when he's usually pretty low error.

What planet is this.

If dogs are kicking in 150-200k it certainly makes our backline look pretty formidable.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Azza »

Predictable

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Azza »

Northern Raider wrote:Dogs won't find anybody to take on his full contract value. Comes back to how much they are willing to swallow. I don't see another club paying much north of $400k for him. Are Dogs willing to wear $200k for 2 years?
Well they were dumb as dog **** paying what they did in the first place

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Botman »

Azza wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:03 pm
Northern Raider wrote:Dogs won't find anybody to take on his full contract value. Comes back to how much they are willing to swallow. I don't see another club paying much north of $400k for him. Are Dogs willing to wear $200k for 2 years?
Well they were dumb as dog **** paying what they did in the first place

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That's the best part of this... this deal being a disaster and them wanting to get out isnt hindsight. 95% of the RL community were saying AT THE TIME they were trying to secure the deal
I said at the time that he wouldnt see out that deal at the dogs and they'd look to move off it sooner than later... granted, i expected that to be after 2 years not 1

But this was as you said, predictable. And people like you and i and our ilk on a **** internet forum can figure this out but the dudes running a professional footy club cant... that's a bad sign
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by EJ »

afgtnk wrote:
Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
Surely a troll post from a rival supporter.
Yeah lol. Semi's mum probs

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Finchy »

BadnMean wrote: November 24, 2021, 6:54 pm Have I gone mad or are people actually suggesting Semi is as good as as 23 year old Origin and Oz rep, with 103 fg games and 49 tries...

Semi made 1 LB last year... In half a season... he dropped it 400 times.

Foxsports stats have Cotric at 12 errors, Semi at 14 and in 3 less games... And that's in a bad season for Cotric when he's usually pretty low error.

What planet is this.

If dogs are kicking in 150-200k it certainly makes our backline look pretty formidable.
I'm with you!

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

450k is overs on last season's form.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by MrPosh »

greeneyed wrote: November 24, 2021, 6:07 pm The story says that if he’s to leave the Bulldogs, he’s told friends his preference is to return to the Raiders. So much for being desperate to be in Sydney all this time. The Raiders and Bulldogs reportedly in negotiations on the financial settlement… immediate release if it can be done. Bulldogs need to move players on to become cap compliant.
I suspect Sydney in lockdown wasn't quite what he wanted.

However, that means he'll probably still have that itch and I wouldn't be shocked to see this as a two year deal, meaning he can make his way back to Sydney after that.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Sid »

Cotric has been hampered by the new rules, speed is now more valuable than busting through the defence with very limited space.. I don't think he's knocking on the door for a Blues jersey like he once was and had a poor year last year.. but I follow others sentiments of having him back for the right price.

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by julian87 »

Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
Valemei's ceiling is about as high as a levelled Kansas house after a tornado.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Rickmando »

Hey may not have had a good year but he was at the Dogs so I’m prepared to give him a mulligan.

The guy is a fantastic footy player, always has been. We are in pretty short supply of them in the 30 at the moment - we aren’t in a position to turn our noses up at him here.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by RedRaider »

If Cotric does come back how much freight do we want the Dogs to pick up? It's Hodgo in reverse. We will want them to pay something because of the high package he is currently on at the Dogs. He left to play center at the Dogs. From the little I saw he was never in form playing for them. He seemed to lack motivation. Maybe 'coming home' will be good for him. The 2019 version of NC would be welcome.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Dusty »

He was bog average in his last season or so with us too, not just last year.


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
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Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote: But this was as you said, predictable. And people like you and i and our ilk on a **** internet forum can figure this out but the dudes running a professional footy club cant... that's a bad sign
Certain people who shall remain nameless (because I can’t be stuffed looking up who it was) told us that we just needed to go that extra 25k to keep him.

Nope, the price was wrong. Now it’s been proven wrong.

I share some of the concerns that Vlandysball doesn’t suit Cotric, but he’s streets ahead of Semi so I’m in the camp of if it’s 450k go for it. His tackle busting on the line would still be valuable in the finals* when it ain’t Vlandysball any more.

* possibly not an attribute of value to the Raiders short-term Image
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Choc Magic »

Ideally we could do a trade deal with any of Simonsson, Semi or Kris (although would prefer to keep Kris and mould him into an edge forward)
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Bigcheese »

I don’t think he’s needed. Raps will have one wing and hopefully Savage the other.

If you move Savage to fullback and CNK to centre then it’s likely Harley will miss out. I see Timoko and Harley as our long term centres.

Leave it a year, then bring him back in 2023 when Raps has gone.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Botman »

Im curious as to why people dont think he suits V'Landysball

He didnt have a great year, sure. But he was never going to be good in that dogs team, he was played out of position for a period and his halves were, to be frank, some of the least talented footballers to grace an NRL field in 2021.
I dont see any reason to think he cant be very effective in that. There are plenty of wingers who are built and play a style like him who are effective in that style... Brian To'o being the very top line example. A powerful, tackle breaking winger is still an asset in V'landysball
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Finchy »

Dusty wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:21 pm He was bog average in his last season or so with us too, not just last year.


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Not really. He was our top try scorer.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Matt »

Bigcheese wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:27 pm
I don’t think he’s needed. Raps will have one wing and hopefully Savage the other.

If you move Savage to fullback and CNK to centre then it’s likely Harley will miss out. I see Timoko and Harley as our long term centres.

Leave it a year, then bring him back in 2023 when Raps has gone.
And what if the "over 30 winger" kicks in this yr???
Get Cotric now, work out the rest later
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Raiders666 »

Our roster construction is absolute Doo doo
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Billy Walker »

Choc Magic wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:26 pm Ideally we could do a trade deal with any of Simonsson, Semi or Kris (although would prefer to keep Kris and mould him into an edge forward)
Definitely needs to be a trade deal that somehow allows us to offload an outside back otherwise we end up with a roster where are paying too much for wingers without actually having the best wingers in the game. I’m not sure Semi or Simo are highly tradable assets at the moment, the smart decision might be seeing if one or both of them turn out to be something rather than offloading on the cheap. I don’t see this as a straightforward done deal. We’d need dogs to pay a lot of freight and find a good buyer for someone we are willing to shed.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by sprintman »

Just need Paulo back to round things off nicely.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Ruben Daley »

I like it (even though I think there are other positions in more need of recruitment) and am confident we'll see Cotric play like he did for us not how he performed last year.

I'm not sure why Semi's name is being thrown around so much in this chat? I wouldn't have thought he was in our best 17.

Fullback: CNK/Xavage
Wingers: Rapa/Xavage/Bailey/HSS
Centres: Timoko/HSS/CNK/Kris

That's eight players to fill five spots, not including Croker or the hundred junior outside backs we've signed. There would have to be a few injuries before Semi gets a guernsey. You might argue that Ricky has a different order but I'm not so sure.

Regardless, there is a real logjam if you throw Cotric back in there.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Finchy »

Ruben Daley wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:40 pm I'm not sure why Semi's name is being thrown around so much in this chat? I wouldn't have thought he was in our best 17.
Because of Jonalanat's post in page 1:

Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Ruben Daley »

Finchy wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:45 pm
Ruben Daley wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:40 pm I'm not sure why Semi's name is being thrown around so much in this chat? I wouldn't have thought he was in our best 17.
Because of Jonalanat's post in page 1:

Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
Ah yeah. I see. Thanks for the reminder.

Well, each to his own but I'd be more worried about what it meant for Xavage, HSS and Timoko's progress. I don't agree that Semi has a higher ceiling than Cotric but I also don't think he's even close to those three.
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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Makaveli »

Finchy wrote:
Ruben Daley wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:40 pm I'm not sure why Semi's name is being thrown around so much in this chat? I wouldn't have thought he was in our best 17.
Because of Jonalanat's post in page 1:

Jonalanat wrote: November 24, 2021, 5:53 pm That’s a big day NO from me.

We should just stick with Semi Valemei after blooding him in the last few years.

Semi’s ceiling is still any unknown quantity whereas you know what cotric has to offer and that was injury last season…
Semi is garbage. Would take Cotric back in a heartbeat.

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Re: Nick Cotric ready for shock return to Canberra as Bulldogs make cost-cutting decision

Post by Botman »

Ruben Daley wrote: November 24, 2021, 7:54 pm Well, each to his own but I'd be more worried about what it meant for Xavage, HSS and Timoko's progress. I don't agree that Semi has a higher ceiling than Cotric but I also don't think he's even close to those three.
Indeed
Respectfully, Semi is the least of our concerns with this potential move

Savage has to be in the team somewhere
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