BadnMean wrote:Drinky makes his errors at about the rate Jack and Savage do.
His attacking output is up there with the best in the game though.
Whether it is a good idea to put Drinky in the same team as those other two... not sure. Not the kind of player we need chasing right now. Savage might have similar attack by the time he's 25 and have cut the errors down too.
We should be looking at halfbacks and second rowers as the only major targets.
Maybe a winger with some toe (not sure how quick Anderson or Asomua are in the scheme of things).
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ever going to use Savage or Wighton as my NRL standard benchmarks for errors!
I'd suggest those two blokes, and maybe Starling, are primarily responsible for our best football being lightyears away from our worst. I've never quite seen anything like it.
BadnMean wrote:Drinky makes his errors at about the rate Jack and Savage do.
His attacking output is up there with the best in the game though.
Whether it is a good idea to put Drinky in the same team as those other two... not sure. Not the kind of player we need chasing right now. Savage might have similar attack by the time he's 25 and have cut the errors down too.
We should be looking at halfbacks and second rowers as the only major targets.
Maybe a winger with some toe (not sure how quick Anderson or Asomua are in the scheme of things).
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ever going to use Savage or Wighton as my NRL standard benchmarks for errors!
I'd suggest those two blokes, and maybe Starling, are primarily responsible for our best football being lightyears away from our worst. I've never quite seen anything like it.
Those 2 are not actually really outside the pack for players in their positions either, iirc.
They aren't great, but Jack is well in line with quite a few other well performed halves in that aspect, as is Savage. The difference being that some (not all) of those others are near top of the charts in attacking output in some aspects too- whereas I think Jack and Savage are kind of middling overall this season in success vs mistakes.
I wish the TV channels had an ‘unforced errors’ stat for NRL like they have for tennis.
I’m not sure how to measure it, but as an example I’d like to count an error against the dummy half who threw the ball at the feet of a player, someone who gets penalised for an obvious strip, etc etc.
BJ wrote:I wish the TV channels had an ‘unforced errors’ stat for NRL like they have for tennis.
I’m not sure how to measure it, but as an example I’d like to count an error against the dummy half who threw the ball at the feet of a player, someone who gets penalised for an obvious strip, etc etc.
Yeah, it's hard. Errors like dropped balls are attributed to the guy who received the pass, but if it was caused by a terrible pass, the player who threw it doesn't get the black mark. It's a bit like a player not having a missed tackle against their name when they are caught completely out of position and nowhere near making a tackle they should have.
BadnMean wrote:Drinky makes his errors at about the rate Jack and Savage do.
His attacking output is up there with the best in the game though.
Whether it is a good idea to put Drinky in the same team as those other two... not sure. Not the kind of player we need chasing right now. Savage might have similar attack by the time he's 25 and have cut the errors down too.
We should be looking at halfbacks and second rowers as the only major targets.
Maybe a winger with some toe (not sure how quick Anderson or Asomua are in the scheme of things).
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ever going to use Savage or Wighton as my NRL standard benchmarks for errors!
I'd suggest those two blokes, and maybe Starling, are primarily responsible for our best football being lightyears away from our worst. I've never quite seen anything like it.
Those 2 are not actually really outside the pack for players in their positions either, iirc.
They aren't great, but Jack is well in line with quite a few other well performed halves in that aspect, as is Savage. The difference being that some (not all) of those others are near top of the charts in attacking output in some aspects too- whereas I think Jack and Savage are kind of middling overall this season in success vs mistakes.
Ok, I haven't seen the stats, but the number of times Savage loses the ball in contact is like no other player I have ever seen. Not to mention his defensive errors, which are thankfully slowly starting to improve. At least he is no longer going into contact thinking he's Sonny-Bill with one hand holding the ball. **** me! Confident kid, LOL.
Jack's errors are a real grab bag of dropped balls, bad kicks and poor passes. The real killers are the drops where his mind is clearly on what he wants to do next, rather than holding onto the ball. That stuff comes and goes, but he's in a real purple patch of dropping the thing cold.
Raidernation wrote:Katoa looks like a player that gets converted to prop, 110kg and tall. I'm still all for Jack welsby for left centre and fullback option. Jazz tavaga as 13 and stop gap 9. Lastly which is purely a punt and see how it goes is Peter hiku training as a Second rower to see how he takes to it.
Where is Welsby from? I don't like the idea of Tavaga. Too many errors and a bit of a grub. Not sure about Hiku as a second rower either. He has been pretty bloody good for the cows this year in the centres so not sure his ready for that shift yet. Really know how to setup his winger which for some strange reason is pretty rare these days.
Raidernation wrote:Katoa looks like a player that gets converted to prop, 110kg and tall. I'm still all for Jack welsby for left centre and fullback option. Jazz tavaga as 13 and stop gap 9. Lastly which is purely a punt and see how it goes is Peter hiku training as a Second rower to see how he takes to it.
Where is Welsby from? I don't like the idea of Tavaga. Too many errors and a bit of a grub. Not sure about Hiku as a second rower either. He has been pretty bloody good for the cows this year in the centres so not sure his ready for that shift yet. Really know how to setup his winger which for some strange reason is pretty rare these days.
St Helens fullback, but has played wing and centre. He has that mark gasnier movement and good size which I think would really suit centre.
bonehead wrote: ↑July 26, 2022, 5:59 am
Gannon boys are edges.
@mr posh I see Jacob is on loan to Bradford
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Good first game by all accounts.
Will be interesting to see how he goes. The Championship is an unforgiving place for a young forward. There are some very good players and some, to put it politely, grizzled veterans.
Raidernation wrote:Katoa looks like a player that gets converted to prop, 110kg and tall. I'm still all for Jack welsby for left centre and fullback option. Jazz tavaga as 13 and stop gap 9. Lastly which is purely a punt and see how it goes is Peter hiku training as a Second rower to see how he takes to it.
Where is Welsby from? I don't like the idea of Tavaga. Too many errors and a bit of a grub. Not sure about Hiku as a second rower either. He has been pretty bloody good for the cows this year in the centres so not sure his ready for that shift yet. Really know how to setup his winger which for some strange reason is pretty rare these days.
St Helens fullback, but has played wing and centre. He has that mark gasnier movement and good size which I think would really suit centre.
He burst onto the scene with an on-the-hooter Grand Final winning try.
Suffered for a bit after that through his flexibility.
Settled in this year at full-back and has started to improve again very quickly.
Crusader wrote: ↑July 27, 2022, 9:15 pm
Rumour going around that Schuster is not on good terms with Manly..........Raiders should make a move
Is that because he wants to play five-eighth though?
Is it maybe because he's scared of rainbows?
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate. John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
They've been planning that transition for quite a while. It'd be very surprising to see him anywhere else other than the Manly 6. He's had time in first grade and now Foran is moving on.
Drinkwater is killing it today. Hes fast always backing up the forwards, creative and he's a back up 6. He creates points. I'd take this bloke over our current fullbacks. Savage is a spud. CNK has lost all confidence.
badsall1 wrote:Drinkwater is killing it today. Hes fast always backing up the forwards, creative and he's a back up 6. He creates points. I'd take this bloke over our current fullbacks. Savage is a spud. CNK has lost all confidence.
Drinkwater has a contract for the Cowboys in 2023. Pretty confident given the season they have had that he wouldn’t be looking to get out of that contract.
I think Xavier Savage can develop into our long term fullback. Also, don’t we have some Gun 18 year old we’ve poached from Cronulla that play 1 as well??
I think we need a genuine edge back rower for the right side too
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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
14. Simmonson 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Horsburgh
Dusty wrote:I think Xavier Savage can develop into our long term fullback. Also, don’t we have some Gun 18 year old we’ve poached from Cronulla that play 1 as well??
I think we need a genuine edge back rower for the right side too
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yes, Chevy Stewart, won best player at the schoolboys national comp last week or so.
Caught Belcher on SEN commentary not very complimentary of savage but I think the improvement we've seen will continue to see him breakout once his body has another preseason
Dusty wrote: ↑July 31, 2022, 5:25 pm
I think Xavier Savage can develop into our long term fullback. Also, don’t we have some Gun 18 year old we’ve poached from Cronulla that play 1 as well??
I think we need a genuine edge back rower for the right side too
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Yeah I only said a couple of edge back rowers for extra depth.. Young is doing a fine job
I think it’s going to be 8-10 games into next year to know if we need a fullback
Savage is going through a steep learning curve right now, this a tough rookie year and he’s very much rocks or diamonds right now, imo that’s fine for now.
He’s shown a lot of promise in some areas and huge need for improvement in others
I think we’re going to have to go in to an off season, and let’s see how he looks next year… is he improving on the areas he needs? Is there growth physical and mentally to handle the position?
If there is, we persist. If not fullback becomes a key recruitment target for 2023.
We definitely need edge forwards. Probably 2 of them, that can either push into the 17 or push guys we have into improving their game where they need it.
I think the biggest things we are missing next year is a lock, Right side Second Row or as said below someone to put pressure on Whitehead and CHN plus a back up fullback.
We need a scrappy hard working lock (Bateman, Fensom, Elliot) rather than another prop. We need someone to plug the defensive holes and do the hard work allowing our props to shine. Mooney? Webb?
I can’t see whitehead getting back to his best unless the club are being coy about an injury. CHN is good in attack but a liability in defence. Mooney would be next in line?
Behind Savage we only have stop gap options. The new guy is 18 but I suggest we need someone in between. Our wingers don’t slot in there as easily as other teams do. Rapana is too old and NC is too big. Schiller is more of a centre rather than FB. Kris, no.
zim wrote: ↑July 31, 2022, 7:04 pm
Next it would be HSS or Cotric. Very shallow at fullback for next year.
Or Kris who spent some time there at NSW Cup level.
Certainly slim pickings.
Priorities for 2023:
1. Back rower
2. Back up full back
3. Lock
4. Centre
Wouldn't mind betting though that Mooney and Rushton are being lined up for that lock and back rower position however regardless we are still very light on.
Other than HSS we don't really have another centre do we? Schiller maybe can do a job there but still lacking a lot of experience.
And fullback- don't mind betting we make a Caleb Aekins type signing. Though hopefully just with the talent...
Can't see who we are going to go out and secure at this point. ESL worth an exploration?
Rick wrote: ↑July 31, 2022, 8:03 pm
I think the biggest things we are missing next year is a lock, Right side Second Row or as said below someone to put pressure on Whitehead and CHN plus a back up fullback.
We need a scrappy hard working lock (Bateman, Fensom, Elliot) rather than another prop. We need someone to plug the defensive holes and do the hard work allowing our props to shine. Mooney? Webb?
I can’t see whitehead getting back to his best unless the club are being coy about an injury. CHN is good in attack but a liability in defence. Mooney would be next in line?
Behind Savage we only have stop gap options. The new guy is 18 but I suggest we need someone in between. Our wingers don’t slot in there as easily as other teams do. Rapana is too old and NC is too big. Schiller is more of a centre rather than FB. Kris, no.
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I think there is some internal optimism that we've got 2 really good #13 prospects in Mooney and Ruston. I get the feeling the club is pretty confident between those two they've got an answer to the #13 question.
Rick wrote: ↑July 31, 2022, 8:03 pm
I think the biggest things we are missing next year is a lock, Right side Second Row or as said below someone to put pressure on Whitehead and CHN plus a back up fullback.
We need a scrappy hard working lock (Bateman, Fensom, Elliot) rather than another prop. We need someone to plug the defensive holes and do the hard work allowing our props to shine. Mooney? Webb?
I can’t see whitehead getting back to his best unless the club are being coy about an injury. CHN is good in attack but a liability in defence. Mooney would be next in line?
Behind Savage we only have stop gap options. The new guy is 18 but I suggest we need someone in between. Our wingers don’t slot in there as easily as other teams do. Rapana is too old and NC is too big. Schiller is more of a centre rather than FB. Kris, no.
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I think there is some internal optimism that we've got 2 really good #13 prospects in Mooney and Ruston. I get the feeling the club is pretty confident between those two they've got an answer to the #13 question.
zim wrote: ↑July 31, 2022, 7:04 pm
Next it would be HSS or Cotric. Very shallow at fullback for next year.
Or Kris who spent some time there at NSW Cup level.
Certainly slim pickings.
Priorities for 2023:
1. Back rower
2. Back up full back
3. Lock
4. Centre
Wouldn't mind betting though that Mooney and Rushton are being lined up for that lock and back rower position however regardless we are still very light on.
Other than HSS we don't really have another centre do we? Schiller maybe can do a job there but still lacking a lot of experience.
And fullback- don't mind betting we make a Caleb Aekins type signing. Though hopefully just with the talent...
Can't see who we are going to go out and secure at this point. ESL worth an exploration?
Yeah an Aekins or Abbey type signing is probably where you want to head as far as squad balance. Squads that have 2 first grade quality full backs are either paying overs for a winger, a junior that is on his way out, or the Roosters.
Most have got an excellent winger or centre that can fill in for a few games but would start to taper off as the season goes on.
That all depends obviously on whether you're backing Savage for 2023. I think there's enough there to say yes, and buying a back up or reserve back means you have flexibility in your cap if Savage does trend up.