The Politics Thread 2022

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
dubby wrote:
Question wrote: February 26, 2022, 10:54 am Wow gangagang has his knickers in a knot today.

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Its unlike him to make ad hominem comments.
Out of respect for a genuinely good guy, I'm walking away
Ad hominem, is that when you make comments about the quality of your mothers spaghetti?
Sacrilege...

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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

dubby wrote:Gangers, all media is leaning one way or another. Some are just less discreet about it.
All things on earth have a temperature.

Yet some are so far in the hot direction that they burn you.
Some are so far in the cold direction that they burn you.
Some are in an acceptable temperature range that are safe to handle.

The stuff you’re consuming is burning you.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

dubby wrote:I think you're right to a point, gangers. Britain and France did nothing while Hitler did precisely the same thing: reclaiming what he thought was rightfully German land.
The US public did not want to enter a war.

The lesson we learned from that is appeasement makes the aggressor more aggressive.
I think the lesson was learned. I don’t doubt the whole world would be in Ukraine now if nuclear weapons didn’t exist.

But they do now. So every effort has to be made to resolve the situation in a fashion that doesn’t jump straight to nukes.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

It’s pretty bloody inspiring to see the citizenry of Ukraine band together like this and hold their ground against a much bigger army

Russia very clearly did not anticipate this level of resilience. The longer this goes on without them capturing Kyiv the more embarrassing it looks.

I’ve seen some military experts on various platforms saying this is actually exposing how poor the Russian military is and despite its size, it’s a poorly trained and lead group with terrible planning and logistics

Don’t know anything about that myself but if accurate this could indeed get very embarrassing for Putin
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Coastalraider »

Botman wrote: February 27, 2022, 4:14 pm It’s pretty bloody inspiring to see the citizenry of Ukraine band together like this and hold their ground against a much bigger army

Russia very clearly did not anticipate this level of resilience. The longer this goes on without them capturing Kyiv the more embarrassing it looks.

I’ve seen some military experts on various platforms saying this is actually exposing how poor the Russian military is and despite its size, it’s a poorly trained and lead group with terrible planning and logistics

Don’t know anything about that myself but if accurate this could indeed get very embarrassing for Putin
Which leads to its own problems… what do you think Putin will resort to if it looks like a ‘inferior ’ non-country is outmanoeuvring how own?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Coastalraider wrote: February 27, 2022, 5:03 pm
Botman wrote: February 27, 2022, 4:14 pm It’s pretty bloody inspiring to see the citizenry of Ukraine band together like this and hold their ground against a much bigger army

Russia very clearly did not anticipate this level of resilience. The longer this goes on without them capturing Kyiv the more embarrassing it looks.

I’ve seen some military experts on various platforms saying this is actually exposing how poor the Russian military is and despite its size, it’s a poorly trained and lead group with terrible planning and logistics

Don’t know anything about that myself but if accurate this could indeed get very embarrassing for Putin
Which leads to its own problems… what do you think Putin will resort to if it looks like a ‘inferior ’ non-country is outmanoeuvring how own?
Yep, reports emerging that Putin is very pissed off about how this is all going, and now he's being cut off from quite literally his War Chest, which he was saving to get the country through economic sanctions
A lot of his own people do not want this war.

It's hard to even know what happens from here, because it all rests on one person... who is at mercy and whims of being a single person... nothing is off the table. Putin's achieved a lot though

- increased NATO forces in eastern europe
- further increased the chances of Finland and Sweeden joining NATO
- turned the ukraine president into an internationally recognised iconic hero
- united NATO after some fractures from the Trump era
- got a few of his own ally's to step back and distance
- further weakened himself with a good amount of own people

and for what? reports suggest by this stage he expected to have forced the Ukraine Govt to flee and have already captured Kyiv and installed his puppet regime, and instead he's not even achieved any of the major goals that most believe would have been the objectives early in this campaign
Not ideal!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Botman wrote:It’s pretty bloody inspiring to see the citizenry of Ukraine band together like this and hold their ground against a much bigger army

Russia very clearly did not anticipate this level of resilience. The longer this goes on without them capturing Kyiv the more embarrassing it looks.

I’ve seen some military experts on various platforms saying this is actually exposing how poor the Russian military is and despite its size, it’s a poorly trained and lead group with terrible planning and logistics

Don’t know anything about that myself but if accurate this could indeed get very embarrassing for Putin
Yeah I’ve been reading the updates lately, and have been pretty inspired. Never thought I would ever learn about Asymmetric Warfare before this weekend.

Been seeing the same thing about the Russian military being caught wondering. I think this also shows the difference when you’re fighting for an actual cause vs following someone’s orders.

Also really hoping Zelenskyy makes it through this. To think before he was president, he was an Actor / Comedian. He could have played the “I don’t swing a hose mate” card, but he is there with his people.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by dubby »

@coastal, I think Putin may be mad enough to use drastic measures.

As mentioned, the valiant Ukrainian people have inspired the world and shown up his military to a point.

Putin won't stop. He's and arrogant pig of a man, and he's used to getting his own way. He won't want to be embarrassed.

Unless he's taken out by his own people, this will just continue.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Coastalraider »

And he has put the nuclear weapons on high alert.

I’m just concerned all of the sanctions, coupled with the fact he is not making the headway he has planned is backing him into a corner, and rapidly.

There are lots of ways it could go nuclear, not just cities wiped out. Kharkiv for example is well within nuclear artillery distance from the Russian border.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

I’m still holding out hope that if he does decide to go nuclear, the ones responsible for pushing the button simply won’t.

Russians have denied the request twice before in their history. I have faith they’ll do it again.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Jesus, if he drops a nuke on them it would be a terrible tragedy even worse than what we are seeing now
I'd like to think even Putin is that crazy... not sure what the impact on that event would be for other nations
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Notwithstanding that the defiance from Ukraine is inspirational, I think that the quick conclusions that Putins campaign is failing because he hasn’t taken Ukraine within a few hours is just a bit of a coping mechanism to be honest.

Ukraine has the 3rd largest army in Europe.

By comparison it took Hitler 6 weeks to occupy Poland.

I don’t think there is all that much doubt amongst strategists that Russia will be able to gain some semblance of control over Ukraine, probably sooner rather than later.

The main question really is for how long, in what capacity, and to what end?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Mickey_Raider wrote: February 28, 2022, 8:15 am Notwithstanding that the defiance from Ukraine is inspirational, I think that the quick conclusions that Putins campaign is failing because he hasn’t taken Ukraine within a few hours is just a bit of a coping mechanism to be honest.

Ukraine has the 3rd largest army in Europe.

By comparison it took Hitler 6 weeks to occupy Poland.

I don’t think there is all that much doubt amongst strategists that Russia will be able to gain some semblance of control over Ukraine, probably sooner rather than later.

The main question really is for how long, in what capacity, and to what end?
That's the big one. Whatever end game he had in mind would be totally out the window now. I don't see any favourable outcome for him. Scary thing is how much he wants to take down with him.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Botman »

Mickey_Raider wrote: February 28, 2022, 8:15 am Notwithstanding that the defiance from Ukraine is inspirational, I think that the quick conclusions that Putins campaign is failing because he hasn’t taken Ukraine within a few hours is just a bit of a coping mechanism to be honest.

Ukraine has the 3rd largest army in Europe.

By comparison it took Hitler 6 weeks to occupy Poland.

I don’t think there is all that much doubt amongst strategists that Russia will be able to gain some semblance of control over Ukraine, probably sooner rather than later.

The main question really is for how long, in what capacity, and to what end?
I'm certainly no expert but I don't think anyone believes the Russian's wont eventually overcome the Ukrainian's the disparity in resources, both human and munitions seems insurmountable to me just looking at it.
Russia will eventually take Ukraine and as you say, probably sooner than later. But the experts across platforms I'm seeing are pretty adamant this is not going very well for Russia and so far it's been a failure, heavy emphasis on "so far".

What is interesting is what happens back at home for Russia, the sanctions are coming down, the people will start hurting. A lot of them don't want this war, and now it's not going quite the way they wanted and suddenly Russian mothers are going to be losing more son's than they anticipated. And the looming nuclear threat... there is quite a recipe for large scale unrest from the citizens of Russia brewing here.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: February 28, 2022, 9:01 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: February 28, 2022, 8:15 am Notwithstanding that the defiance from Ukraine is inspirational, I think that the quick conclusions that Putins campaign is failing because he hasn’t taken Ukraine within a few hours is just a bit of a coping mechanism to be honest.

Ukraine has the 3rd largest army in Europe.

By comparison it took Hitler 6 weeks to occupy Poland.

I don’t think there is all that much doubt amongst strategists that Russia will be able to gain some semblance of control over Ukraine, probably sooner rather than later.

The main question really is for how long, in what capacity, and to what end?
I'm certainly no expert but I don't think anyone believes the Russian's wont eventually overcome the Ukrainian's the disparity in resources, both human and munitions seems insurmountable to me just looking at it.
Russia will eventually take Ukraine and as you say, probably sooner than later. But the experts across platforms I'm seeing are pretty adamant this is not going very well for Russia and so far it's been a failure, heavy emphasis on "so far".

What is interesting is what happens back at home for Russia, the sanctions are coming down, the people will start hurting. A lot of them don't want this war, and now it's not going quite the way they wanted and suddenly Russian mothers are going to be losing more son's than they anticipated. And the looming nuclear threat... there is quite a recipe for large scale unrest from the citizens of Russia brewing here.
Might be more of a top down revolution to depose Putin. The ones hardest hit by these sanctions will be the oligarchs. As they see their assets being frozen and wealth greatly diminish they will become far less enthusiastic about supporting any claim to eastern Ukraine. Even it it was successful they would have nothing to show for it. Might see them collaborate to throw Putin under the bus and replace him with somebody who can maybe repair some damage.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Sid »

Hypothetically down the track if after the Oligarchs overthrow the current Ukrainian government and inserts their puppet government, I guess the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government would have the world divided, particularly after any number of "elections" take place? Putting pressure on NATO to relieve sanctions to Russia and the new Ukrainian government/s. I guess what I mean is that Putin and the Oligarchs may be aware the original puppet government isn't going to be widely accepted, other than by the current countries that don't have sanctions on Russia, but after "elections" whether it's the same face or possibly even 1 or 2 fresh new faces being "elected", at what point will it be widely accepted that a new Ukrainian government would be legitimate? What measures would need to happen for NATO to relieve pressure on the sanctions?


Edit: I guess it's pretty difficult to draw conclusions/try and accurately answer any number of hypotheticals of what's going to happen from here.





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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Sid wrote: February 28, 2022, 2:08 pm Hypothetically down the track if after the Oligarchs overthrow the current Ukrainian government and inserts their puppet government, I guess the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government would have the world divided, particularly after any number of "elections" take place? Putting pressure on NATO to relieve sanctions to Russia and the new Ukrainian government/s. I guess what I mean is that Putin and the Oligarchs may be aware the original puppet government isn't going to be widely accepted, other than by the current countries that don't have sanctions on Russia, but after "elections" whether it's the same face or possibly even 1 or 2 fresh new faces being "elected", at what point will it be widely accepted that a new Ukrainian government would be legitimate? What measures would need to happen for NATO to relieve pressure on the sanctions?


Edit: I guess it's pretty difficult to draw conclusions/try and accurately answer any number of hypotheticals of what's going to happen from here.
That sort of stuff ultimately comes down to the people and the nature of the occupation.
If at some point the citizens in the country accept the government and it is a free and democratic election and not some puppet Russian government in an occupied Ukraine then that could see thing change

However it's hard to imagine the Ukrainians feeling that way any time soon. Certainly not after only a handful of elections where pro-Russian candidates are "elected"
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Northern Raider »

Sid wrote: February 28, 2022, 2:08 pm Hypothetically down the track if after the Oligarchs overthrow the current Ukrainian government and inserts their puppet government, I guess the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government would have the world divided, particularly after any number of "elections" take place? Putting pressure on NATO to relieve sanctions to Russia and the new Ukrainian government/s. I guess what I mean is that Putin and the Oligarchs may be aware the original puppet government isn't going to be widely accepted, other than by the current countries that don't have sanctions on Russia, but after "elections" whether it's the same face or possibly even 1 or 2 fresh new faces being "elected", at what point will it be widely accepted that a new Ukrainian government would be legitimate? What measures would need to happen for NATO to relieve pressure on the sanctions?


Edit: I guess it's pretty difficult to draw conclusions/try and accurately answer any number of hypotheticals of what's going to happen from here.
Been a bit of thinking on this I see.
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Sid »

Northern Raider wrote:
Sid wrote: February 28, 2022, 2:08 pm Hypothetically down the track if after the Oligarchs overthrow the current Ukrainian government and inserts their puppet government, I guess the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian government would have the world divided, particularly after any number of "elections" take place? Putting pressure on NATO to relieve sanctions to Russia and the new Ukrainian government/s. I guess what I mean is that Putin and the Oligarchs may be aware the original puppet government isn't going to be widely accepted, other than by the current countries that don't have sanctions on Russia, but after "elections" whether it's the same face or possibly even 1 or 2 fresh new faces being "elected", at what point will it be widely accepted that a new Ukrainian government would be legitimate? What measures would need to happen for NATO to relieve pressure on the sanctions?


Edit: I guess it's pretty difficult to draw conclusions/try and accurately answer any number of hypotheticals of what's going to happen from here.
Been a bit of thinking on this I see.
Over the weekend was a bit guilty of doomscrolling and overthinking scenarios of how this Ukrainian crisis plays out tbh. Started self banning myself from checking the news/socials so often

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by -PJ- »

Sleepy Joe is about to front State of the Nation live from USA.

I’m sure Joe has this in him without tripping over his tongue or nodding off.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Joe only referred to the Ukrainians as Uranians twice, didn’t fall asleep either..
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Good lord, legit?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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"Sleepy joe" is such a ****, low rent insulting nickname... republicans can and should do better
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Sniffer in Chief?
Mush mouth?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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No, no, you misunderstood... i said i wanted conservative **** to do BETTER than "Sleepy Joe", not worse.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote: i said i wanted conservative **** to do BETTER
Don’t go holding your breath there my good man.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by dubby »

Could always go by his masculine middle name; Robinette
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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Thought you were against ad hominems?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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dubby wrote: March 4, 2022, 3:40 am Could always go by his masculine middle name; Robinette
:lol: what a desperately pathetic slight to throw.

Especially strange to be throwing masculinity insults around when you're far from a regular Arnold Schwarzenegger! :lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Rick »

dubby wrote:Could always go by his masculine middle name; Robinette
Name calling, even my 8 year old daughter has moved on from that. God this forum can be embarrassing at times…


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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by dubby »

but that is his middle name!!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Question »

Hes a dope no doubt about it.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Better replace him immediately with that gal.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2022

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Would have held the fort some 39 years ago, definately riddled with dementia.

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The Politics Thread 2022

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

What’s everyone’s middle name?
Mines Brad, well, Bradley
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