SURVIVOR POLL I: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

Who should be voted out?

Sam Backo
32
7%
Gary Belcher
1
0%
Terry Campese
32
7%
Brad Clyde
3
1%
Gary Coyne
37
8%
Jarrod Croker
21
5%
Jason Croker
4
1%
Laurie Daley
3
1%
John Ferguson
3
1%
David Furner
5
1%
Josh Hodgson
13
3%
Peter Jackson
26
6%
Dean Lance
15
3%
Glenn Lazarus
4
1%
John Lomax
30
6%
Mal Meninga
4
1%
Brett Mullins
8
2%
Ken Nagas
18
4%
Noa Nadruku
19
4%
Chris O'Sullivan
24
5%
Josh Papalii
4
1%
Quentin Pongia
25
5%
Jordan Rapana
8
2%
Clinton Schifcofske
25
5%
David Shillington
44
9%
Ricky Stuart
3
1%
Alan Tongue
36
8%
Steve Walters
2
0%
Jack Wighton
14
3%
Ruben Wiki
3
1%
 
Total votes: 466

The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote:I think our best 5 players are without question

Meninga, Stuart, Walters, Daley and Clyde.. and we can probably all quibble about the order of 2-5 (that's my personal order), but that's the 5 imo. And i think there is a pretty good drop off beyond them
Yup, they’re my top 5... and it’s daylight to 6th
User avatar
Crash Ball
Glenn Lazarus
Posts: 373
Joined: March 27, 2021, 2:30 pm
Favourite Player: Mal Meninga

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Crash Ball »

Agree top 5 is locked in and might not change for a long time, if ever.

Although after rewatching a heap of old games and reading about most of the ones I couldn’t, I reckon Belcher is heavily underrated and would be 6th before the drop off. His contribution in 86 and 87 kind of gets forgotten but he was the best player in the side at that point.

Also maybe not career wise but I’d rate Clyde as our best player after Mal based on actual peak performance. It’s actually ridiculous to rewatch him over 80 minutes, he is an absolute beast with the footy.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

If you ignore position value and just ranked the players on how well they played their position

Walters and Clyde are legit claims on that... but it's hard to ignore how important the halves are and how truly special Stuart and Daley were.
Daley is an interesting case too because i think he played his best footy at origin level, when origin was at it's peak of competitive spirit. That adds a lot to his legacy imo. That's RL's biggest arena and he was as good as any in that arena.
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12408
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: May 23, 2022, 2:18 pm
BadnMean wrote: May 23, 2022, 1:55 pm Lazo had 5 seasons with Raiders
6 with Broncs

so a fairly even split. And a couple with the Storm.

The fact he won multiple comps with all of them is why he seems to loom so large for all the teams. Incredible. I have him as a Raider, since he developed here and was here during the glory days.

There's no real criteria set for one's own ideas about who is a Raider and how Green you have to bleed though.
To put that into context for me though
I was born in 1987, which is Lazo's first year at the Raiders.
1992-93 when i was 5/6 are the first proper memories i have of being RL and Raiders fan, and he's at the Broncos by then and then of course his final years at the Storm. So i don't really have any "Lazarus Raiders" memories. The only time i saw him play for us was when i was bored at my Pop's house and threw on one of his old VHS
I genuinely feel bad for all the arguments I’ve had with you over the years about your comparative views of current players against all time greats. Of the recent success of the club compared to the good old days. I would never of gone so hard opposing your views if I realised I was arguing with someone who may not have been born when I was at the SCG watching Cliffy Lyons (he was a former manly great) tear us up in 87 (and was only 7 years old when we won our last premiership).

I never saw Langlands, Simms or Raper play, so I’d proceed with great caution and respect before suggesting a modern day player was better than any if I were discussing with someone who did have the context that comes with having seen them all in action.

You don’t lack confidence or opinion but you’d do well to take a little context from someone like GE when he seeks to educate you about a player like Lazzo.

I’m sure you’ll do you and post some odd deflection of a reply and then cling tight to some false upper ground, but I’ve no doubt the day will come in 10-20 years time when some young fella tries to tell you the 2nd year raider having strung a handful of games together is better than Papa. Probably best you don’t argue with him as he won’t get it and will probably reply with something as silly as what you’re about to post……
Hong Kong Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4691
Joined: August 28, 2016, 6:19 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Enjoyed reading the posts above; brings back some good memories.

I think Gary Belcher is underrated and was a large part of our success pre 1990. Definitely the best fullback in the world from 1988 to 1991. Better than Garry Jack. Controversial view: with Mal and his broken arm in 1987 (returning in the Final) and another broken arm late in 1988, I think he was the fulcrum of our side pre 1990 and deserves better recognition. He was a great player for us, Qld (esp. 1988-1989) and Aust. Great in broken play. Safe as a bank. Channel 10 awarded him the MOTM in the 1989 GF (separate from the CC medal which was won by Clyde) and he was our best player in the finals - a series which we had to win every game.

I agree with Bad&Mean above that after 1990, Ricky took over. I had never seen someone kick the ball or pass the ball so long before seeing Ricky play. Loved watching him pass and the team going from left to right sideline in one tackle then right sideline to left in the next tackle. An example is the lead up to the Clyde try in the 1991 GF. Amazing skills. Smart player - was like a 1990s Cronk with his game management but with superior skills. His running game was underrated. Deceptively fast too - once nearly ran the length of the field in a SOO around 1990 to score a try. Did the same making a break in the 2nd test v Great Britain in 1990 before passing to Mal for the winning try.
Call me biased but I think he was better than Joey. Tim Sheens recognised his importance by making him captain over Laurie who was NSW captain at the time when Mal retired. I heard he used to yell abuse at the forwards like calling Lomax fat during a game to get them do what he wanted them to do.

I still watch our 80s and 90s games on youtube. All 10 of the above are special and "great" in some way.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Billy Walker wrote:
Botman wrote: May 23, 2022, 2:18 pm
BadnMean wrote: May 23, 2022, 1:55 pm Lazo had 5 seasons with Raiders
6 with Broncs

so a fairly even split. And a couple with the Storm.

The fact he won multiple comps with all of them is why he seems to loom so large for all the teams. Incredible. I have him as a Raider, since he developed here and was here during the glory days.

There's no real criteria set for one's own ideas about who is a Raider and how Green you have to bleed though.
To put that into context for me though
I was born in 1987, which is Lazo's first year at the Raiders.
1992-93 when i was 5/6 are the first proper memories i have of being RL and Raiders fan, and he's at the Broncos by then and then of course his final years at the Storm. So i don't really have any "Lazarus Raiders" memories. The only time i saw him play for us was when i was bored at my Pop's house and threw on one of his old VHS
I genuinely feel bad for all the arguments I’ve had with you over the years about your comparative views of current players against all time greats. Of the recent success of the club compared to the good old days. I would never of gone so hard opposing your views if I realised I was arguing with someone who may not have been born when I was at the SCG watching Cliffy Lyons (he was a former manly great) tear us up in 87 (and was only 7 years old when we won our last premiership).

I never saw Langlands, Simms or Raper play, so I’d proceed with great caution and respect before suggesting a modern day player was better than any if I were discussing with someone who did have the context that comes with having seen them all in action.

You don’t lack confidence or opinion but you’d do well to take a little context from someone like GE when he seeks to educate you about a player like Lazzo.

I’m sure you’ll do you and post some odd deflection of a reply and then cling tight to some false upper ground, but I’ve no doubt the day will come in 10-20 years time when some young fella tries to tell you the 2nd year raider having strung a handful of games together is better than Papa. Probably best you don’t argue with him as he won’t get it and will probably reply with something as silly as what you’re about to post……
Hahahaha when Billy pretends he’s older than he is is one of my favourite bits on the greenhouse

*chefs kiss*
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Just expanding on the Top 5 for mine, it’s definitely Stuart and Mal 1 and 2 (and probably in that order?) and I think if I had to I’d go Daley, Clyde and Walters following on
User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 27846
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 »

Hong Kong Raider wrote:Enjoyed reading the posts above; brings back some good memories.

I think Gary Belcher is underrated and was a large part of our success pre 1990. Definitely the best fullback in the world from 1988 to 1991. Better than Garry Jack. Controversial view: with Mal and his broken arm in 1987 (returning in the Final) and another broken arm late in 1988, I think he was the fulcrum of our side pre 1990 and deserves better recognition. He was a great player for us, Qld (esp. 1988-1989) and Aust. Great in broken play. Safe as a bank. Channel 10 awarded him the MOTM in the 1989 GF (separate from the CC medal which was won by Clyde) and he was our best player in the finals - a series which we had to win every game.

I agree with Bad&Mean above that after 1990, Ricky took over. I had never seen someone kick the ball or pass the ball so long before seeing Ricky play. Loved watching him pass and the team going from left to right sideline in one tackle then right sideline to left in the next tackle. An example is the lead up to the Clyde try in the 1991 GF. Amazing skills. Smart player - was like a 1990s Cronk with his game management but with superior skills. His running game was underrated. Deceptively fast too - once nearly ran the length of the field in a SOO around 1990 to score a try. Did the same making a break in the 2nd test v Great Britain in 1990 before passing to Mal for the winning try.
Call me biased but I think he was better than Joey. Tim Sheens recognised his importance by making him captain over Laurie who was NSW captain at the time when Mal retired. I heard he used to yell abuse at the forwards like calling Lomax fat during a game to get them do what he wanted them to do.

I still watch our 80s and 90s games on youtube. All 10 of the above are special and "great" in some way.
Completely agree regarding Belcher and Stuart. Both terribly underrated when discussions about the all time great fullbacks and halfbacks are being had.

My fave player of that era was Daley; Meanings was a phenomenal centre and Clyde was unbelievable too, but we don't have the success we had without Badge and Sticky.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11505
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 6:04 am Hahahaha when Billy pretends he’s older than he is is one of my favourite bits on the greenhouse

*chefs kiss*
+1 for Billy Dubs changing his name to Wiley Baulker.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

:lol: it’s a great bit

It’s also a lot of words trying to chastise me when

1. I didn’t even vote for him to be sent pack yet and simply said he might not make my cut next time. Like maybe save the tsk tsk’ing for when I actually **** vote the guy out! :lol:

B. Last time the GH did this exercise he didn’t make the top 10! So maybe relax a little haha
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11505
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: May 24, 2022, 8:26 am :lol: it’s a great bit

It’s also a lot of words trying to chastise me when

1. I didn’t even vote for him to be sent pack yet and simply said he might not make my cut next time. Like maybe save the tsk tsk’ing for when I actually **** vote the guy out! :lol:

B. Last time the GH did this exercise he didn’t make the top 10! So maybe relax a little haha
Tbf to Wiley I can smell the Cliffy Lyons hate from across the tasman.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: May 23, 2022, 2:32 pm The aim is to make an assessment of the best 10 Raiders of all time though... hard to do if you haven't lived through 40 seasons, I guess, but you can look at records and old games etc. With Lazarus, he's very close to the top 10 Raiders of all time, if he's not in the top 10, for mine.
And another point... what are we actually arguing here. Because this is GE's post
Lazo for him is on the boarder line of his top 10... how? Close if not in? For Lazo? Who im told has an unquestionable Raiders legacy
How is he not a LOCK in GE's top 10?
How did he miss the top 10 cut last time?

If Lazo's Raiders legacy is not dinged how is he not a far superior player to Jason Croker? David Furner? Ruben Wiki? Who in the 6-10 range on our list from last time is better footballer than Lazo? Because i dont see one. I love those guys but it's not close. If Lazo's legacy as a raider is not impacted by time spent at other clubs the Big 5 is a Big 6 and Lazo is in Meninga, Clyde, Stuart, Daley, Walters group. That IS his standing as a footballer IF questioning his Raiders legacy is blasphemy. But here we are haha.

The answer is we're all dinging him to some extent for the VERY same reasons NR and I talked about. His legacy is diminished based on time served at other clubs by most, INCLUDING THE ONE TRYING TO "EDUCATE" ME.

So this is purely about splitting hairs on how much you ding him. And i start to wonder what on earth are we doing here if that's where the discussion is :lol:
User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 32522
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

I guess it all comes down to interpretation. Is it the top 10 greatest Raiders or the top 10 greatest players who spent time at the Raiders. If it's the latter then what about guys like Kevin Walters?
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11505
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Northern Raider wrote: May 24, 2022, 9:29 am I guess it all comes down to interpretation. Is it the top 10 greatest Raiders or the top 10 greatest players who spent time at the Raiders. If it's the latter then what about guys like Kevin Walters?
I'm down with this intepretation, we should switch it up. Ryan Hinchcliffe struts into our top 50 all time.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

Ben Kennedy! COME ON DOWN!

I mean i say that 99% in jest, but it is a different scale of the same argument
Lazo obviously did and achieved more in his time at the Raiders than BK. But BK was one of the best forwards of modern football and he's not even nominated on this list because the point of NR's post, it IS about the greatest Raiders, rather than the greatest players who played for the Raiders
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145102
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

My post was in reaction to the suggestion that Lazarus was more a Broncos/Storm player. Which is incorrect in my view.
Image
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: May 24, 2022, 10:02 am My post was in reaction to the suggestion that Lazarus was more a Broncos/Storm player. Which is incorrect in my view.
So genuine question...
why is "very close to the top 10 Raiders of all time, if he's not in the top 10" for you, and not a top 10 certainty?
Because if you view him more a Raiders great than anyone else and are not dinging him at all for spending over half his career at other clubs, he HAS to be top 10. And top 6 imo.

Certainly no one could argue he's not better than Wiki, Croker, or Furner.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145102
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

I personally think he’s better than some of those players myself. At the moment I’m very certain on my top five. I’m still thinking about the rest. I’m not suggesting he gets credit for achievement at other clubs. But this is a very fine record at the Raiders. It’s probably better than Papalii’s record, though his is stronger in other ways.

Raiders record: 1987-1991, 92 games, 10 tries, 40 points
85 games at prop, seven off the bench
Two premierships, three grand finals, four preliminary finals, 15 finals, 12 at prop, three on the bench
Raiders Players' Player 1988
Raiders Most Consistent Player 1990
Raiders Hall of Fame
NRL Hall of Fame

Representative record*: 1990-1991 Australia, 11 games, including three World Cup games
1990-1991 New South Wales, five games
1989-1990 NSW City, two games
1991 NSW Country, one game
1988 Australian President's XIII, one game against Great Britain
* Excludes representative appearances from other clubs
Image
User avatar
Finchy
Jason Croker
Posts: 4903
Joined: March 30, 2008, 9:59 pm
Favourite Player: Ata Mariota

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Finchy »

Where’s Joe Picker, Ben Cross, and Jonneh Bateman? Botman’s having to pick inferiors
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
Wiki Special
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1527
Joined: August 11, 2016, 8:16 am
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Wiki Special »

As someone who goes back to '87 with a clear memory of the Raiders I would have thought Lazarus was a lock for Top 10. Obviously it is all subjective though.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: May 24, 2022, 10:46 am As someone who goes back to '87 with a clear memory of the Raiders I would have thought Lazarus was a lock for Top 10. Obviously it is all subjective though.
He was a prop, not a lock. The numbers switched order for the forwards.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

Finchy wrote: May 24, 2022, 10:36 am Where’s Joe Picker, Ben Cross, and Jonneh Bateman? Botman’s having to pick inferiors
Ill say only this Finchy, and even this might be too much and the powers that be might come for me...

The premeditated and highly organised Ben Cross erasure campaign that GE and his cohorts up in GH HQ have been engaging in for years has now reached it's apex. And it's disgusting.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42006
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: May 24, 2022, 10:33 am I personally think he’s better than some of those players myself. At the moment I’m very certain on my top five. I’m still thinking about the rest. I’m not suggesting he gets credit for achievement at other clubs. But this is a very fine record at the Raiders. It’s probably better than Papalii’s record, though his is stronger in other ways.

Raiders record: 1987-1991, 92 games, 10 tries, 40 points
85 games at prop, seven off the bench
Two premierships, three grand finals, four preliminary finals, 15 finals, 12 at prop, three on the bench
Raiders Players' Player 1988
Raiders Most Consistent Player 1990
Raiders Hall of Fame
NRL Hall of Fame

Representative record*: 1990-1991 Australia, 11 games, including three World Cup games
1990-1991 New South Wales, five games
1989-1990 NSW City, two games
1991 NSW Country, one game
1988 Australian President's XIII, one game against Great Britain
* Excludes representative appearances from other clubs
It is a very fine record indeed!

So how did we get here where he wasn't named in the top 10 last time we did this, and you yourself have expressed that you're unsure if he's top 10 for you. That resume doesn't support that ranking, from the collective, or from you. That resume beats at least 4 of our current top 10, maybe 5 (i'd have to take another look at Badge's resume).

The only logical answer to that his Raiders greatness and legacy is taking a hit from everyone (including you) because he spent only a 1/3rd (or 36% to be exact) of his career at the club. Some people will ding him for that more than others to be sure, and reasonable minds can disagree on how much he should be dinged.

But I'm not really sure what was so controversial about what i said given my comments mirrored the results of the exercise and your own assessment.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

He's right you know.
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12408
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Billy Walker »

The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:22 am He's right you know.
It’s been my observation that anytime you’ve felt the need to fight his battles it’s generally a sure sign your little mate has found himself in a foolish position he struggles to bluster his way out of. It’s good he is engaging with people like GE who can school him on the history of the club. If he can now just learn to listen and comprehend the young fella will be all the wiser for it.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Billy Walker wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:29 am
The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:22 am He's right you know.
It’s been my observation that anytime you’ve felt the need to fight his battles it’s generally a sure sign your little mate has found himself in a foolish position he struggles to bluster his way out of. It’s good he is engaging with people like GE who can school him on the history of the club. If he can now just learn to listen and comprehend the young fella will be all the wiser for it.
Or you've just missed the obvious Simpsons reference I've thrown out there, but tute on, Billy!!

Tute on!!!
Billy Walker
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12408
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Billy Walker »

The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:30 am
Billy Walker wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:29 am
The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:22 am He's right you know.
It’s been my observation that anytime you’ve felt the need to fight his battles it’s generally a sure sign your little mate has found himself in a foolish position he struggles to bluster his way out of. It’s good he is engaging with people like GE who can school him on the history of the club. If he can now just learn to listen and comprehend the young fella will be all the wiser for it.
Or you've just missed the obvious Simpsons reference I've thrown out there, but tute on, Billy!!

Tute on!!!
There is a lot of nonsense you young blokes go on about that I tend to miss and I’m ok with that. I respect you’d know more about new age things like that. Clint Eastwood once said “a man’s gotta know his limitations”. (Eastwood was a very good winger for Newtown back in the 70s).
User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 32522
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: May 23, 2022, 9:26 pm I think our best 5 players are without question

Meninga, Stuart, Walters, Daley and Clyde.. and we can probably all quibble about the order of 2-5 (that's my personal order), but that's the 5 imo. And i think there is a pretty good drop off beyond them
Agree, we could probably fast track the process by leaving those names out. After that we have about 10 guys fighting for the 5 remaining spots
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

Billy Walker wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:36 am
The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:30 am
Billy Walker wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:29 am
The Nickman wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:22 am He's right you know.
It’s been my observation that anytime you’ve felt the need to fight his battles it’s generally a sure sign your little mate has found himself in a foolish position he struggles to bluster his way out of. It’s good he is engaging with people like GE who can school him on the history of the club. If he can now just learn to listen and comprehend the young fella will be all the wiser for it.
Or you've just missed the obvious Simpsons reference I've thrown out there, but tute on, Billy!!

Tute on!!!
There is a lot of nonsense you young blokes go on about that I tend to miss and I’m ok with that. I respect you’d know more about new age things like that. Clint Eastwood once said “a man’s gotta know his limitations”. (Eastwood was a very good winger for Newtown back in the 70s).
Hahahaha tripling down on your bit now... never change Billy, you young scamp.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145102
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 24, 2022, 10:33 am I personally think he’s better than some of those players myself. At the moment I’m very certain on my top five. I’m still thinking about the rest. I’m not suggesting he gets credit for achievement at other clubs. But this is a very fine record at the Raiders. It’s probably better than Papalii’s record, though his is stronger in other ways.

Raiders record: 1987-1991, 92 games, 10 tries, 40 points
85 games at prop, seven off the bench
Two premierships, three grand finals, four preliminary finals, 15 finals, 12 at prop, three on the bench
Raiders Players' Player 1988
Raiders Most Consistent Player 1990
Raiders Hall of Fame
NRL Hall of Fame

Representative record*: 1990-1991 Australia, 11 games, including three World Cup games
1990-1991 New South Wales, five games
1989-1990 NSW City, two games
1991 NSW Country, one game
1988 Australian President's XIII, one game against Great Britain
* Excludes representative appearances from other clubs
It is a very fine record indeed!

So how did we get here where he wasn't named in the top 10 last time we did this, and you yourself have expressed that you're unsure if he's top 10 for you. That resume doesn't support that ranking, from the collective, or from you. That resume beats at least 4 of our current top 10, maybe 5 (i'd have to take another look at Badge's resume).

The only logical answer to that his Raiders greatness and legacy is taking a hit from everyone (including you) because he spent only a 1/3rd (or 36% to be exact) of his career at the club. Some people will ding him for that more than others to be sure, and reasonable minds can disagree on how much he should be dinged.

But I'm not really sure what was so controversial about what i said given my comments mirrored the results of the exercise and your own assessment.
I’m not personally responsible for the outcome of this exercise in 2007. And as I’ve pointed out, I’m still considering beyond the top five. Which in my view are 1. Meninga 2. Daley 3. Stuart 4. Clyde 5. Walters.

I certainly disagree that Lazarus is not in the top 15 Raiders, which was your proposition. And that Lazarus was more a Broncos/Storm player. And the latter is what I said. It’s not a controversy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51015
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by The Nickman »

You don't really have Daley above Stuart, do you?
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145102
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

Northern Raider wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:46 am
Botman wrote: May 23, 2022, 9:26 pm I think our best 5 players are without question

Meninga, Stuart, Walters, Daley and Clyde.. and we can probably all quibble about the order of 2-5 (that's my personal order), but that's the 5 imo. And i think there is a pretty good drop off beyond them
Agree, we could probably fast track the process by leaving those names out. After that we have about 10 guys fighting for the 5 remaining spots
The next poll will eliminate five. Then we will go one by one. The order will be important too.
Image
User avatar
Rickmando
John Ferguson
Posts: 2663
Joined: May 22, 2017, 3:41 pm
Favourite Player: Ricky Stuart

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Rickmando »

I was a huge Daley fan, and thought about inserting him into that conversation earlier in the thread with Mal and Ricky being the “top tier”.

But then you recall just how devastating it was to lose Mal with the broken arm and Stick with the broken leg. Those two were talismanic - our chances went immediately out the window when they were ruled out.

So I’d grudgingly put Loz 3rd, in a second tier with Clyde (4th). 5th for me could be one of half a dozen blokes… it’s a very tough call
User avatar
Rickmando
John Ferguson
Posts: 2663
Joined: May 22, 2017, 3:41 pm
Favourite Player: Ricky Stuart

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Rickmando »

And Papalii is the only player of the past decade or so I’d even entertain in a conversation for those half dozen spots (and therefore top 10 all time).

The only modern post-2000 players I haven’t voted off the island are Paps and Rapana. The others aren’t even close in terms of talent and impact.
User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 32522
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: SURVIVOR POLL: Top ten greatest ever Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: May 24, 2022, 12:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote: May 24, 2022, 11:46 am
Botman wrote: May 23, 2022, 9:26 pm I think our best 5 players are without question

Meninga, Stuart, Walters, Daley and Clyde.. and we can probably all quibble about the order of 2-5 (that's my personal order), but that's the 5 imo. And i think there is a pretty good drop off beyond them
Agree, we could probably fast track the process by leaving those names out. After that we have about 10 guys fighting for the 5 remaining spots
The next poll will eliminate five. Then we will go one by one. The order will be important too.
Fair enough.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Post Reply