2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
8%
Raiders 1-12
4
31%
Draw
0
No votes
Dragons 1-12
3
23%
Dragons 13+
5
38%
 
Total votes: 13

User avatar
Azza
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10526
Joined: February 16, 2005, 10:12 am

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by Azza »

Some wasted spots in that side.
Elcaptcroker
David Grant
Posts: 704
Joined: September 5, 2016, 11:09 am
Favourite Player: Jarrod croker

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by Elcaptcroker »

2 forwards, a full back and an out of form dummy half, on the bench, what could go wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Raiders_Pat
John Ferguson
Posts: 2049
Joined: July 24, 2016, 8:11 am
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I could understand persisting with Whitehead at second row if we named Mooney on the bench to sub on for him at some stage but otherwise it's a horrible selection. No surprises at all here with the 17 though, pretty much what I expected Ricky to pick if Nicoll-Klokstad was ready to go this week.
User avatar
Raider47
Jason Croker
Posts: 4751
Joined: April 15, 2009, 10:38 am
Favourite Player: Matt Timoko
Location: Queanbo

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by Raider47 »

Raiders_Pat wrote: June 28, 2022, 4:11 pm I could understand persisting with Whitehead at second row if we named Mooney on the bench to sub on for him at some stage but otherwise it's a horrible selection. No surprises at all here with the 17 though, pretty much what I expected Ricky to pick if Nicoll-Klokstad was ready to go this week.
Yep- bloody bizarre.

Such stupid team selections and Ricky will never learn.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

I dont even know what to make of that bench. Yuck.
Boomercm
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1629
Joined: June 21, 2009, 7:18 pm
Favourite Player: Joe Picker

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by Boomercm »

cat wrote: June 27, 2022, 10:02 pm In regards to Starling I dont think we will see him at his best again till next season.

I don't think you can ignore the pressure/stress/distraction his court cases must be having and how its impacting on his game.
Agree. But if we can't ignore the impact on his form, why can the selection panel. Give Trev a bit of game time and give Starling a few weeks out of the spotlight
User avatar
BadnMean
Steve Walters
Posts: 7594
Joined: May 13, 2013, 5:30 pm
Favourite Player: chicka

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BadnMean »

Klokstadt could survive 10 mins at lock or backrow if he has to chip in. Not the worst #14 choice.
User avatar
-PJ-
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24719
Joined: May 8, 2010, 1:58 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii
Location: 416.9 km from GIO Stadium

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by -PJ- »

CNK should be in reserve grade not taking up butt space on our bench.
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
cat
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12444
Joined: April 1, 2008, 5:19 pm
Favourite Player: Dane Tilse
Location: Sydney

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews

Post by cat »

Boomercm wrote: June 28, 2022, 4:17 pm
cat wrote: June 27, 2022, 10:02 pm In regards to Starling I dont think we will see him at his best again till next season.

I don't think you can ignore the pressure/stress/distraction his court cases must be having and how its impacting on his game.
Agree. But if we can't ignore the impact on his form, why can the selection panel. Give Trev a bit of game time and give Starling a few weeks out of the spotlight
Agree, I can only presume its Ricky's way of saying we believe and support you
Vaccinated
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4340
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Mickey_Raider »

The only thing I can think of doing with that bench is bringing on CNK for Whitehead and shifting Kris to second row, CNK to centre.

What will actually happen though is Whitehead will have another disastrous and/or ineffectual 80 minutes and CNK will rot on the bench as a wasted bench spot as we inevitably get run down through fatigue.

Happy days and bring on that Ricky extension!
Up The Milk
User avatar
kiwi raider
Steve Walters
Posts: 7675
Joined: March 31, 2008, 7:59 pm
Location: Christchurch, NZ

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by kiwi raider »

I wouldn't worry too much about CNK on the bench. I can see a good old sticky Smokescreen in the works. Savage AND CNK swapping 1 hour before kickoff, the dragqueens won't no what hit em.
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145095
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders get back Jack Wighton, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad for Dragons showdown



Raiders five-eighth Jack Wighton will be back in action for the Raiders' Sunday afternoon game against the Dragons in Wollongong. Also returning is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad who was greenlit after a hamstring injury kept him sidelined late last month.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239











Image
User avatar
gerg
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12613
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by gerg »

BadnMean wrote:Klokstadt could survive 10 mins at lock or backrow if he has to chip in. Not the worst #14 choice.
Yeah I don't actually mind it. He is actually the closest thing we have to a utility player we have for backline coverage. However I seriously hope that Ricky resists the urge to 'hook' Savage if he makes an error.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145095
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by greeneyed »

The line up shows that the brains trust is again being too slow to identify when players are well below form, and that opportunity should really be provided to others. I understand the problems that also come with changing the team line up too often, that causes instability. But this isn't the first time this year, that many of the fans have identified where changes are needed well before the coaches... changes that eventually get made, but too late.
Image
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145095
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by greeneyed »

Image
User avatar
simo
Ricky Stuart
Posts: 9574
Joined: March 12, 2013, 7:50 pm
Favourite Player: Keghead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by simo »

Savage will make one mistake, rick will dust his hands off and say “see, i told you all it was too early” and replace him with cnk. Savage will then learn his trade for the next 2 years in reggies with trey mooney before going elsewhere.
Dont delete this GE
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

simo wrote: June 28, 2022, 6:31 pm Savage will make one mistake, rick will dust his hands off and say “see, i told you all it was too early” and replace him with cnk. Savage will then learn his trade for the next 2 years in reggies with trey mooney before going elsewhere.
*sigh*
This post is triggering me
lightning
Sam Backo
Posts: 179
Joined: March 7, 2008, 6:15 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by lightning »

simo wrote: June 28, 2022, 6:31 pm Savage will make one mistake, rick will dust his hands off and say “see, i told you all it was too early” and replace him with cnk. Savage will then learn his trade for the next 2 years in reggies with trey mooney before going elsewhere.
Just trying to think of a player who had made the mistakes that savage has and eventually come right. Maybe someone else can? I sincerely hope I’m wrong and we have the next Ryan Papenhuyzen on our hands but the concern for me is the errors are not able to be matured out of him. Star fullbacks are normally pretty solid and reliable from the get go and then they kick on from there with a bit more structure to their attack but some of his tackles and decisions have been well below average for the position he’s playing on field.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity
lightning
Sam Backo
Posts: 179
Joined: March 7, 2008, 6:15 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by lightning »

Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 6:50 pm ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly

The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity


Love rapa and horse but they still drop the ball.

I’m talking about elite fullbacks like we all hope this kid will be.
User avatar
BJ
Steve Walters
Posts: 7687
Joined: February 2, 2007, 12:14 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BJ »

I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:03 pm I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows

Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333

Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3857
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Coastalraider »

Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:18 pm
BJ wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:03 pm I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows

Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333

Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
Preach!!
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

Savage needs to improve his handling, there is no doubt about that. His loose carries in heavy contact is something that needs correcting.
But we're very much blowing this out of proportion too. He touches the footy a lot, his nature is going to lead to more high variance play, which means more errors... but he's not CLOSE to what some people seem to think he is.
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3857
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Coastalraider »

It’s a shame - I was starting to think it might be a good idea to throw the bank at Burton on November 1 - now I’ve seen that error rate it’s clear he’ll never make it.
User avatar
BJ
Steve Walters
Posts: 7687
Joined: February 2, 2007, 12:14 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BJ »

Botman wrote:
BJ wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:03 pm I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows

Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333

Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
Yeah I’ll have to word him up about that one. I don’t know if he’s going to give me a caveat around a certain type of error.

But he is a Dragons fan and was defending Zac Lomax who I said was a walking error machine.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

Zac Lomax, 19 errors in 14 games
1.357142857

HIGER than Xavier Savage.
Next time you see him, please ask him to leave his shoes at the door
Image
Boomercm
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1629
Joined: June 21, 2009, 7:18 pm
Favourite Player: Joe Picker

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Boomercm »

Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:18 pm
BJ wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:03 pm I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows

Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333

Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
what happens if you limit that to just games he started?
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

Boomercm wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:45 pm what happens if you limit that to just games he started?
No idea. NRL stats made available the public arent mature enough to isolate that quickly. You'd need to go to the match stats where he didnt start, count up the non starts and the errors and remove them from the totals and redo it.

Id imagine since he's avaraging 1.3 errors a game and i remember a few errors in the games he came off the bench in, i would guess it wouldnt move the needle dramatically one or the other, and certain not put him in "record" terrirtory. But you're welcome to do that work.
Boomercm
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1629
Joined: June 21, 2009, 7:18 pm
Favourite Player: Joe Picker

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Boomercm »

Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:49 pm
Boomercm wrote: June 28, 2022, 7:45 pm what happens if you limit that to just games he started?
No idea. NRL stats made available the public arent mature enough to isolate that quickly. You'd need to go to the match stats where he didnt start, count up the non starts and the errors and remove them from the totals and redo it.

Id imagine since he's avaraging 1.3 errors a game and i remember a few errors in the games he came off the bench in, i would guess it wouldnt move the needle dramatically one or the other, and certain not put him in "record" terrirtory. But you're welcome to do that work.
If you use the last 4 games (his starting sequence) and use NRL stats, he has either 12 errors or 10 errors, depending on how you are supposed to count them. So 2.5 errors per game at best, but more likely 3 per game.

The depending on how you count them is because has two instances of having one more handling error in a game than total errors. Not sure how that works.

This doesn't include his couple of terrible defensive efforts.


I think we all can see how exciting he is and all want him to succeed. But you have to be realistic about the numbers and not skew them based on 5 minute appearances from the bench.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

NRL.com also credit him with 5 errors against the knights and 4 against the broncos... i'd have to watch the game but boy that strikes me as off! haha. But my skepticism and long standing preference of Fox Sports stats over NRL aside, we have two very high error count games which account for, and using your words 75% at best, but more likely 90% of his errors.

So we have a 50% of your sample size that says he's 2-3 errors a game, which is very bad
And we have 50% of your sample size that says he's 1 error per game, which is fine

Edit: Just on this
Boomercm wrote: June 28, 2022, 8:06 pm This doesn't include his couple of terrible defensive efforts.
It also doesnt credit him for a couple of the great defensive efforts he's made either. He saved a couple of tries and 40-20's that only he and his speed allowed him to save. So it's not all one way traffic on that front.
Last edited by Botman on June 28, 2022, 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
Boomercm
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1629
Joined: June 21, 2009, 7:18 pm
Favourite Player: Joe Picker

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Boomercm »

I'll add that Jack went through a period where he made a heap of errors at FB and Sticky backed him. I hope Sticky does similar with Savage too, as long Savage's confidence doesn't get shaken by being manhandled on both sides of the ball once or twice a game. No sign of that yet - he is still attacking the ball and line all the time.
lightning
Sam Backo
Posts: 179
Joined: March 7, 2008, 6:15 pm

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by lightning »

Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 8:23 pm Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
Prob the club needs to look at the scenario if neither is the future.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 41997
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Botman »

lightning wrote: June 28, 2022, 8:26 pm
Botman wrote: June 28, 2022, 8:23 pm Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
Prob the club needs to look at the scenario if neither is the future.
The club has already tacitly admitted CNK is not the future. It very well maybe is Savage isnt either. I want to keep stressing this. I am a big defender of Savage and want him to play but i am by no means rusted on thinking this guy is an NRL fullback of the future, let alone a star fullback. We need to perservre with him but yes, there is a very real, and ill say it again as i have many times, very likely chance that Savage is just a winger. (And what level, that also remains to be seen)...

but for now, where we are in this season and where this squad is in it's team building process in regards to winning a comp.... Savage must (IMO anyways) play this year out at fullback. And then lets figure out how we feel about him with a greater body of work to assess
Last edited by Botman on June 28, 2022, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply