Elliott Whitehead

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Raiders_Pat
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I think we should either give Whitehead 30-35 mins off the bench to give Harawira-Naera a spell or we drop him altogether. Weird how Stuart will drop Papalii or demote him to the bench after one or two games not up to his usual standard while he plays Whitehead week after week, regardless of his poor form over the past couple years.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Northern Raider »

Raiders_Pat wrote: June 21, 2022, 4:22 pm I think we should either give Whitehead 30-35 mins off the bench to give Harawira-Naera a spell or we drop him altogether. Weird how Stuart will drop Papalii or demote him to the bench after one or two games not up to his usual standard while he plays Whitehead week after week, regardless of his poor form over the past couple years.
Whitehead off the bench is worth thought. He might give some impact in a shorter stint through the middle stages of the game.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by dubby »

It's quiet sad to see the decline in Whitehead.

For so long he was our Mr Consistent. Always reliable, always trustworthy and without errors and I'll discipline. He had the ability to win the game with a deft pass or crunching tackle.

Since late 2020 he's regressed. We seen it with Sia. Now it's happening to EW.

Let him play the season out, but in the meantime a hard conversation needs to happen before he's remembered for all the wrong reasons.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, unbelievable player and like Soliola his presence contributed greatly to our culture on and off the field in that period.

Fact is though, he's been in decline for nearly 2 seasons. I appreciate many people wanted him to succeed at lock, but you simply can't be just a ball distributor in that role.

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by julian87 »

This is the hardest watch for me. Imo he was the most under rated player in the NRL for several seasons. Was tough, skilful and athletic. I really didn't think he'd see the game outgrow him. In fact backing him to gun it at 13 is probably my worst Canberra call in years. But yeah he just hasn't been able to overcome his athleticism abandoning him.

He'll forever be one of my favourites but it must be time. He can't keep CHN out.

PS a much ignored part of his game was his uncanny knack to hurt opposition players legally. The amount of times he would force oppotion players off the field with legal but tough defence in his prime was astonishing.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by mick63 »

julian87 wrote: June 21, 2022, 7:22 pm This is the hardest watch for me. Imo he was the most under rated player in the NRL for several seasons. Was tough, skilful and athletic. I really didn't think he'd see the game outgrow him. In fact backing him to gun it at 13 is probably my worst Canberra call in years. But yeah he just hasn't been able to overcome his athleticism abandoning him.


Good call

The pendulum swung back the other way though and he took a tremendous amount of head knocks and big hits himself in quite a short period.

When the counting is done I will remember EW as one of the greatest clubman that wore the green.
He'll forever be one of my favourites but it must be time. He can't keep CHN out.

PS a much ignored part of his game was his uncanny knack to hurt opposition players legally. The amount of times he would force oppotion players off the field with legal but tough defence in his prime was astonishing.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Matt »

I loved Smelly. Was brilliant for us, and a big part of the return to the good days.

However, his career is falling off a cliff atm. He doesn't have the motor to go 80 anymore, and he isnt effectively doing anything he was in previous yrs. Most noticeable is the lateral defence. Even 2yrs ago he had an uncanny ability to "get there". Now, he isnt, and it's leaving Fog out to dry.

I was very excited for his move to lock, and thought he would go really well there. Well, he looked good in preseason, then once Fog AND Hodgo went down, that concept was thrown away.

I still don't get why CHN keeps getting left in NSW Cup. He needs to be playing, esp as we re-signed him. I still think he I the best edge we have at the club, even with Huddos form. It's a weird one for mine.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by greeneyed »

CHN is not playing NRL as he's playing poorly. Last week in NSW Cup he made five runs for 29 metres, six post contact metres. He made one offload and one tackle break. He made 21 tackles, for an effective tackle rate of 81 per cent. He missed three tackles, two ineffective. He conceded two penalties. Not much case for putting him in first grade. I agree Whitehead has been poor too.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by BJ »

greeneyed wrote:CHN is not playing NRL as he's playing poorly. Last week in NSW Cup he made five runs for 29 metres, six post contact metres. He made one offload and one tackle break. He made 21 tackles, for an effective tackle rate of 81 per cent. He missed three tackles, two ineffective. He conceded two penalties. Not much case for putting him in first grade. I agree Whitehead has been poor too.
Geez that’s poor. He really should be much better than that.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: June 24, 2022, 2:31 pm
greeneyed wrote:CHN is not playing NRL as he's playing poorly. Last week in NSW Cup he made five runs for 29 metres, six post contact metres. He made one offload and one tackle break. He made 21 tackles, for an effective tackle rate of 81 per cent. He missed three tackles, two ineffective. He conceded two penalties. Not much case for putting him in first grade. I agree Whitehead has been poor too.
Geez that’s poor. He really should be much better than that.
Yeah it's very poor and certainly he wont be getting promoted back in FG with that kind of performance

That being said, we have a player in CHN who has comfortably out performed Whitehead in FG, and he was the one dropped to reserve grade and Whitehead's position is under no threat. You can walk into any work place in the country and see the impact on individuals where that level of internal politicking/lack of meritocracy occurs.
No excuses, that's the hand CHN has been dealt and until he plays that hand better, he'll stay in NSW Cup. But it's objectively a **** hand to have been dealt.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, I get that CHN is potentially our best second rower, but his form is actually worse than Whitehead's. Young is currently by far our best in that role.

If Fogarty, CHN and Starling can reverse their form slide and CNK can get fit enough to improve his confidence, we may have enough in us to scrape into the 8.

As it stands though, with those guys in career worst form and with our fullback being a complete lottery with the ball, we are clearly a 9-12 team.


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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Raidernation »

greeneyed wrote: June 24, 2022, 2:23 pm CHN is not playing NRL as he's playing poorly. Last week in NSW Cup he made five runs for 29 metres, six post contact metres. He made one offload and one tackle break. He made 21 tackles, for an effective tackle rate of 81 per cent. He missed three tackles, two ineffective. He conceded two penalties. Not much case for putting him in first grade. I agree Whitehead has been poor too.
With that kind of form how long do you think it takes for him to be dropped from reserves.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by julian87 »

Seiffert82 wrote: June 24, 2022, 4:22 pm Yep, I get that CHN is potentially our best second rower, but his form is actually worse than Whitehead's. Young is currently by far our best in that role.

If Fogarty, CHN and Starling can reverse their form slide and CNK can get fit enough to improve his confidence, we may have enough in us to scrape into the 8.

As it stands though, with those guys in career worst form and with our fullback being a complete lottery with the ball, we are clearly a 9-12 team.
I'm not sure I subscribe to Fogartys performances being down to form. I hope they are but realistically he's an almost 29 year old halfback with 40 first grade appearances.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

julian87 wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: June 24, 2022, 4:22 pm Yep, I get that CHN is potentially our best second rower, but his form is actually worse than Whitehead's. Young is currently by far our best in that role.

If Fogarty, CHN and Starling can reverse their form slide and CNK can get fit enough to improve his confidence, we may have enough in us to scrape into the 8.

As it stands though, with those guys in career worst form and with our fullback being a complete lottery with the ball, we are clearly a 9-12 team.
I'm not sure I subscribe to Fogartys performances being down to form. I hope they are but realistically he's an almost 29 year old halfback with 40 first grade appearances.
Yep, fair call. He looked good in the trial I watched, but that was a just a 40 minute trial stint. He's clearly at the back end of what can only be described as a "solid" career.

In my mind, if he can get up to speed in defence, his kicking game has shown enough improvement over the past few rounds to indicate he can be an asset for the next year or so. Hopefully enough time to allow Schneider to transition into the role.

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by BadnMean »

Foagrty is unusual in that he only really started FG in his mid 20s.

I thought he kicked very well the other week, exactly why we bought him in. As he settles maybe he can add some direction to our play.

Since his first game he's at least stopped running across field and started to straighten the attack. As he settles hopefully he starts ballplaying at the line a bit, rather than just running darts to keep the defence honest.

But honestly there's only a tiny but more there I expect to see from Fog regards to running game and creativity. That's not what he does. Steer us a bit, take some kicking pressure off, feed the edges, get the odd repeat set and a try from kicks here and there. That's about all Fog gives. That's what we bought.

He's not GWilly who is dynamic. What we hope for is some direction and leadership- a steady half. He doesn't have many more tricks in the locker, just a few degrees of improvement within what we see.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by dubby »

Agree that Fogarty has improved his kicking game and has straightened up the attack mildly. His defence needs improvement though.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by sprintman »

BadnMean wrote: June 27, 2022, 12:39 pm Foagrty is unusual in that he only really started FG in his mid 20s.

I thought he kicked very well the other week, exactly why we bought him in. As he settles maybe he can add some direction to our play.

Since his first game he's at least stopped running across field and started to straighten the attack. As he settles hopefully he starts ballplaying at the line a bit, rather than just running darts to keep the defence honest.

But honestly there's only a tiny but more there I expect to see from Fog regards to running game and creativity. That's not what he does. Steer us a bit, take some kicking pressure off, feed the edges, get the odd repeat set and a try from kicks here and there. That's about all Fog gives. That's what we bought.

He's not GWilly who is dynamic. What we hope for is some direction and leadership- a steady half. He doesn't have many more tricks in the locker, just a few degrees of improvement within what we see.
Was ‘dynamic’. Been **** since he returned to Blighty.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by badsall1 »

Papali is on the same trajectory as whitehead atm. He's ridiculously unfit and offering little to the team. His minutes are getting less and less and he's struggling to bend the line. He can turn it around. But the coaching staff need to tell him to pull his finger out. He's playing small minutes for qld also. Shows you He's got little drive at the moment. He normally goes up to gears at origin.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by dubby »

I disagree.

Papa has been very strong for us. Ok, maybe not what he is 100% capable of, but I just know we are weaker when he and Tapine are off
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by gerg »

Is Papa carrying an injury perhaps? He's been a game breaker for us but seems a bit off ATM.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Crash Ball »

badsall1 wrote: June 27, 2022, 5:48 pm Papali is on the same trajectory as whitehead atm. He's ridiculously unfit and offering little to the team. His minutes are getting less and less and he's struggling to bend the line. He can turn it around. But the coaching staff need to tell him to pull his finger out. He's playing small minutes for qld also. Shows you He's got little drive at the moment. He normally goes up to gears at origin.
That's a pretty harsh call and not really backed up by the stats. He played small minutes for us in 1 game against the Broncos when he was backing up from Origin but his average minutes are around the same as every other prop and around the same as he was playing last year, 46 minutes a game. 4 minutes less than Tapine and 3 less than Fisher Harris who you would say are the benchmark props in the comp.

He is also averaging 150 meters in the last 6 weeks if you exclude that Broncos game and he is averaging virtually the same post contact meters as last year and two meters less than 2019.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Botman »

Its like badsall1 has watched SOO and nothing else
Strange post
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Lui_Bon »

gergreg wrote: June 27, 2022, 6:33 pm Is Papa carrying an injury perhaps? He's been a game breaker for us but seems a bit off ATM.
well he did get hit in the head early against Newcastle. He was kneeling on the sideline with a sponge held to his left eyebrow (or his head right above there). Eventually he came back out taped. He had the same tape - or, should I say new tape in the same place I hope! - in Origin on Sunday.

I'm sure it wasn't anything serious (or he wouldn't have been allowed to play) but who knows what plays on the mind?
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote:Is Papa carrying an injury perhaps? He's been a game breaker for us but seems a bit off ATM.
He’s off ATM? That’s disgusting, I didn’t even realise he was into it in the first place!
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Ilanraiders »

Let’s hope this thread is not filled up come 6pm this arvo… if it is hopefully for his man of the match performance😬😬😬😬
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by sprintman »

He’s good at fishing…
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by BadnMean »

He might as well not be out there.

Honestly for the captain, it's awful. Shame he has to go out like this- he was a wonderful player but he's gonna be remembered like Darius if this continues and it once again makes Ricky's captaincy calls look like ass covering more than squad inspiring.

Lame.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Bad miss on Suli again - just couldn't move quickly laterally when Suli came inside.

Gave him a bath last year as well when Suli was with Manly.

Ricky still won't drop him. He's a liability to the team. Whitehead should seriously think about retiring at the end of the year.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by yurithe1 »

Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 3, 2022, 11:56 pm Bad miss on Suli again - just couldn't move quickly laterally when Suli came inside.

Gave him a bath last year as well when Suli was with Manly.

Ricky still won't drop him. He's a liability to the team. Whitehead should seriously think about retiring at the end of the year.
I don't know what sort of money he's on, but I'll bet that he would rather be playing in NSW Cup and getting the same dollars than retired and earning zilch.

The NSW Cup side could probably benefit from his experience, which brings me to the next question: who becomes captain?

Ricky is enamoured of Tapine saying he could be a future Kiwi captain. Much easier to stake that claim if he's the club captain. IMHO, I don't think the referees respect Whithead and are dismissive of him. His attempt to get the ref to blow a penalty at the end of today's game against the Dragons is a case in point.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by gangrenous »

No referee is going to suddenly change his mind in that scenario after making the call. Not even if Cam Smith came in to argue it.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

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“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

Old Smelly should have retired 2 years ago. He’s cooked.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

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He deadset looks like a over 50s player out there, guts and all.

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

yurithe1 wrote:
Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 3, 2022, 11:56 pm Bad miss on Suli again - just couldn't move quickly laterally when Suli came inside.

Gave him a bath last year as well when Suli was with Manly.

Ricky still won't drop him. He's a liability to the team. Whitehead should seriously think about retiring at the end of the year.
I don't know what sort of money he's on, but I'll bet that he would rather be playing in NSW Cup and getting the same dollars than retired and earning zilch.

The NSW Cup side could probably benefit from his experience, which brings me to the next question: who becomes captain?

Ricky is enamoured of Tapine saying he could be a future Kiwi captain. Much easier to stake that claim if he's the club captain. IMHO, I don't think the referees respect Whithead and are dismissive of him. His attempt to get the ref to blow a penalty at the end of today's game against the Dragons is a case in point.
Zero Tackle is reporting $580k. Not sure if that's correct, but wouldn't surprise me.

He was done by the end of 2020. Came back strongly when the season was resumed that season, in among all the George Williams nonsense, but there were obvious signs to me with about a month to go in that season that he was done.

First step is to hand over the captaincy to Tapine and attempt to move on.

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Northern Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 4, 2022, 11:55 am
yurithe1 wrote:
Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 3, 2022, 11:56 pm Bad miss on Suli again - just couldn't move quickly laterally when Suli came inside.

Gave him a bath last year as well when Suli was with Manly.

Ricky still won't drop him. He's a liability to the team. Whitehead should seriously think about retiring at the end of the year.
I don't know what sort of money he's on, but I'll bet that he would rather be playing in NSW Cup and getting the same dollars than retired and earning zilch.

The NSW Cup side could probably benefit from his experience, which brings me to the next question: who becomes captain?

Ricky is enamoured of Tapine saying he could be a future Kiwi captain. Much easier to stake that claim if he's the club captain. IMHO, I don't think the referees respect Whithead and are dismissive of him. His attempt to get the ref to blow a penalty at the end of today's game against the Dragons is a case in point.
Zero Tackle is reporting $580k. Not sure if that's correct, but wouldn't surprise me.

He was done by the end of 2020. Came back strongly when the season was resumed that season, in among all the George Williams nonsense, but there were obvious signs to me with about a month to go in that season that he was done.

First step is to hand over the captaincy to Tapine and attempt to move on.

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Shop him to the Tigers. They're always willing to take on other team's cap burdens.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: July 4, 2022, 11:55 am
yurithe1 wrote:
Hong Kong Raider wrote: July 3, 2022, 11:56 pm Bad miss on Suli again - just couldn't move quickly laterally when Suli came inside.

Gave him a bath last year as well when Suli was with Manly.

Ricky still won't drop him. He's a liability to the team. Whitehead should seriously think about retiring at the end of the year.
I don't know what sort of money he's on, but I'll bet that he would rather be playing in NSW Cup and getting the same dollars than retired and earning zilch.

The NSW Cup side could probably benefit from his experience, which brings me to the next question: who becomes captain?

Ricky is enamoured of Tapine saying he could be a future Kiwi captain. Much easier to stake that claim if he's the club captain. IMHO, I don't think the referees respect Whithead and are dismissive of him. His attempt to get the ref to blow a penalty at the end of today's game against the Dragons is a case in point.
Zero Tackle is reporting $580k. Not sure if that's correct, but wouldn't surprise me.

He was done by the end of 2020. Came back strongly when the season was resumed that season, in among all the George Williams nonsense, but there were obvious signs to me with about a month to go in that season that he was done.

First step is to hand over the captaincy to Tapine and attempt to move on.

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Shop him to the Tigers. They're always willing to take on other team's cap burdens.
Plenty of room for a busted second rower now they've shipped Leilua off.

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