Elliott Whitehead

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Elliott Whitehead

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Whitehead was once one of our most dependable and consistent players up to 2020. But the game has gone past him - he's old, unfit, slow, gives away too many penalties, has shoddy defence, adds nothing to the attack and has very few run metres. It happens every game - and every week. His stats for 2021 were worse than Adam Elliott's. Yet we extended this guy for 3 years.

He was once a very good player for us. Whitehead is the last of some of our good players that got us to the 2016 Finals, such as Hodgson, Croker, BJ, Sezer, Austin, Shannon Boyd, Baptiste. Some of those have retired, some gone to the UK to ply their trade, and some are hanging on to the fading light when their bodies are broken. Whitehead is surely to join them next.

When will Ricky drop him ? He nearly cost us the game today with his penalty and then getting 10 mins in the sin bin - the contact was late and high. He is not showing any leadership at all. He gives away too many penalties every week. it is predictable every week.

In short, he adds nothing to the team and is a passenger. We play with 12 men when he is picked in the side. CHN would do a better job than him.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Botman »

The situation going forward with him and Croker on pretty significant deals and not really having a place in FG is a very significant problem

I love EW. I dont think he's ever been truly appreciated by this fan base or the large RL community for just what an incredibly GREAT. Yes, GREAT footballer he was. So skillful, and subtle in what he did but my goodness. what a skillful and smart player. But we're at the point we all feared we'd be when the deal was signed. He's not up to it any longer.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Yeah I know Bot. I think Whitehead, Hodgson, BJ and Sezer joining us was a significant period for us in 2015 and 2016. Whitehead ran great lines and was a tough second rower. He was a very good player for us. Someone I would depend on. Even in 2020, I remember his game v Parra to get us to Golden Point in the last few minutes.

Maybe I'm harsh about the lack of leadership - he certainly laid down the law and was vocal in the team when he was sin binned v Cronulla but then again he shouldn't have put himself in the position to be sin binned.

Sadly though he is not FG standard anymore.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, it's hard to watch. He's a passenger with the ball now. Has been for 2 seasons, but not too many wanted to believe it at the end of 2020.

Defended quite well, but he kills our attack.

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Ultima »

I still think he could have some good footy in him, but he needs to change something... Playing 80 minutes and being a shoe in for selection every week has made him complacent. I think half the reason he looks like he is running and passing underwater is he has to pace himself to last the full 80.

I'm kind of hoping he is suspended for our next match so we can see the team planned with-out him, but barring that can we at least try and use him differently? Give him a run at lock with instructions of "go as hard as you can, then we will give you a rest"?

Realistically there is no way Stuart drops him from the team, he is both too close to the players AND too proud to admit signing him to an extended high money contract was possibly a bad idea. So if we have to use him, PLEASE at least use him differently and maybe we will get something?
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Ilanraiders »

We all know he won’t be dropped, Sticky’s pet!!
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by zim »

That Newcastle game was a big lemon from EW. Not so much worried about the strip because it's pretty clear what milf did there, but the sin bin was just so utterly stupid from a guy that already wasn't contributing much other than tackles.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Canberra Milk »

I'd be interested to see the old stats from his peak years. My recollection is that he was never great at hitups and making metres. 100 metres games were a rarity

It seems to me that, what was once not a strong point, has now become a glaring weakness

But I'd be interested to see if the stats say otherwise

I'd be happy for him to play, just with reduced minutes, perhaps at lock. Insisting on 80 minutes from him just seems bizarre at this point
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Botman »

Yeah he was never a huge work rate guy and he was always a bit of a problem in defence
But he's not as creative with the ball in hand, and he's not creating line breaks the way he used to.

The issue is when that stuff goes missing, we look for what else he's doing to help... and what we see is his defence has gotten worse and he's not offsetting that with anything he does offensively
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Milk wrote: June 20, 2022, 1:39 pm I'd be interested to see the old stats from his peak years. My recollection is that he was never great at hitups and making metres. 100 metres games were a rarity

It seems to me that, what was once not a strong point, has now become a glaring weakness

But I'd be interested to see if the stats say otherwise

I'd be happy for him to play, just with reduced minutes, perhaps at lock. Insisting on 80 minutes from him just seems bizarre at this point
His average metres since he's been at the Raiders:

2016 84
2017 83
2018 87
2019 75
2020 77
2021 75
2022 63

https://www.nrl.com/players/nrl-premier ... whitehead/
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by -PJ- »

Has EW been charged ?

Let’s give him 9 weeks to think about it.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Mickey_Raider »

There is a perfectly cromulent, mutually beneficial solution available with EW where he doesn’t need to be seen to have been thrown under the bus and Ricky can save face with one of his locker room guys.

His minutes should be reduced either from the starting 13 or from the bench.

This means we can see if there is still value to be extracted out of him on a 20-30 minute basis for the back end of his career, or if his decline is more comprehensive than that and there is no place in the 17 for him period.

Unfortunately what we most likely will see from Ricky is a continuation of the “Stuart-Clyde” principle, whereby declining veterans are given way longer than is warranted to prove they aren’t past it. To the team’s detriment.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Rickmando »

Whitehead has been great for us, a very astute signing back in the day.

But he’s been cashing credits in for the past 2.5 seasons… I’m not sure there’s a lot of goodwill left. He’s been a total passenger out there
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Raidernation »

realistically EW should be on the bench and come on in the final 30mins to replace CHN in the second row. EW has shown he can't play lock. My question is why is CHN not able to take EWs spot or even get into the team and this is a dig CHN not the coaching staff. He has all of the attributes to be a superstar but has never been able to put it together at his previous clubs and now at the raiders. He is a very disappointing player considering you only have to look at the other side of the field and see what Hudson as done to go from maligned player who needs to go back to a bench lock position to undisputed starter in the second row in 6 weeks and CHN has gone from starter to reserves.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Rickmando »

Raidernation wrote: June 20, 2022, 6:57 pm realistically EW should be on the bench and come on in the final 30mins to replace CHN in the second row. EW has shown he can't play lock. My question is why is CHN not able to take EWs spot or even get into the team and this is a dig CHN not the coaching staff. He has all of the attributes to be a superstar but has never been able to put it together at his previous clubs and now at the raiders. He is a very disappointing player considering you only have to look at the other side of the field and see what Hudson as done to go from maligned player who needs to go back to a bench lock position to undisputed starter in the second row in 6 weeks and CHN has gone from starter to reserves.
CHN is a turnstile, would be my guess
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Botman »

That'd be a tough sell to me, given Hudson Young comes up with efforts like the first try of the knights game fairly regularly and EW is and always has been a pretty shakey defender himself

Simple reality about EW vs CHN, CHN is clearly the better footballer right now and has very clearly played better in pretty every facet of back row play this year and yet here we are. And to be clear that is very much a shot at the coaching staff. If the team was picked on merit, CHN would be comfortably ahead of EW.

The floor is yours to speculate as to why he's in reggies and Whitehead is starting every week.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by sprintman »

He was a professional footballer. Now an amateur fishermen.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Billy Walker »

Shock horror - whoever would have thought the long term Croker and Whitehead deals might end in tears.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Coastalraider »

Here’s the cold hard facts.

Smelly is not one of our best 2 edge backrowers.

Smelly is not our best option at 13.

Smelly is not one of the best 4-5 prop/middles.

So anywhere we fit him because he is a good clubman, past great, captain or whatever reasoning that is used, we are blocking a better performing player.

Ricky has consistently shown his hand with aging players. Toots was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. CNK was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. History will repeat here.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Postman Pat »

Coastalraider wrote:Here’s the cold hard facts.

Smelly is not one of our best 2 edge backrowers.

Smelly is not our best option at 13.

Smelly is not one of the best 4-5 prop/middles.

So anywhere we fit him because he is a good clubman, past great, captain or whatever reasoning that is used, we are blocking a better performing player.

Ricky has consistently shown his hand with aging players. Toots was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. CNK was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. History will repeat here.
He could play the 13 role quite well, but he’d need a rest and play like a guy not playing 80mins.

Someone mentioned he looks like he’s pacing himself to make it through the 80mins and not playing at 100%. I tend to agree, he need to play in the middle and be apart of the bench rotation.

We have a pretty good attacking edge back rower sitting at 18th man right now.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Azza »

He shouldn't be playing first grade

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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Coastalraider »

Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 8:57 pm
Coastalraider wrote:Here’s the cold hard facts.

Smelly is not one of our best 2 edge backrowers.

Smelly is not our best option at 13.

Smelly is not one of the best 4-5 prop/middles.

So anywhere we fit him because he is a good clubman, past great, captain or whatever reasoning that is used, we are blocking a better performing player.

Ricky has consistently shown his hand with aging players. Toots was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. CNK was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. History will repeat here.
He could play the 13 role quite well, but he’d need a rest and play like a guy not playing 80mins.

Someone mentioned he looks like he’s pacing himself to make it through the 80mins and not playing at 100%. I tend to agree, he need to play in the middle and be apart of the bench rotation.

We have a pretty good attacking edge back rower sitting at 18th man right now.
Pat I used to think the same, but that experiment proved to be futile earlier in the year. Couple that with the fact we have morphed into a side that only carry’s 2 forwards on the bench and this route doesn’t look viable.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Postman Pat »

Coastalraider wrote:
Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 8:57 pm
Coastalraider wrote:Here’s the cold hard facts.

Smelly is not one of our best 2 edge backrowers.

Smelly is not our best option at 13.

Smelly is not one of the best 4-5 prop/middles.

So anywhere we fit him because he is a good clubman, past great, captain or whatever reasoning that is used, we are blocking a better performing player.

Ricky has consistently shown his hand with aging players. Toots was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. CNK was underperforming and it took injury for the next wave to get their chance. History will repeat here.
He could play the 13 role quite well, but he’d need a rest and play like a guy not playing 80mins.

Someone mentioned he looks like he’s pacing himself to make it through the 80mins and not playing at 100%. I tend to agree, he need to play in the middle and be apart of the bench rotation.

We have a pretty good attacking edge back rower sitting at 18th man right now.
Pat I used to think the same, but that experiment proved to be futile earlier in the year. Couple that with the fact we have morphed into a side that only carry’s 2 forwards on the bench and this route doesn’t look viable.
The worst thing is it all looked like clicking in the first trial, we had players running lines and Elliott shifting the ball.

Where’s has it all gone?
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Postman Pat »

Just double checking, Elliott lasted 5 games in the 13. 2 wins for 3 loses losing to Manly, Cowboys and Storm while beating the Titans and Sharks.

I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Billy Walker »

Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 10:19 pm Just double checking, Elliott lasted 5 games in the 13. 2 wins for 3 loses losing to Manly, Cowboys and Storm while beating the Titans and Sharks.

I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
You’d probably want more of a compelling argument than the negative win loss ratio you have put forward.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Postman Pat »

Billy Walker wrote:
Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 10:19 pm Just double checking, Elliott lasted 5 games in the 13. 2 wins for 3 loses losing to Manly, Cowboys and Storm while beating the Titans and Sharks.

I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
You’d probably want more of a compelling argument than the negative win loss ratio you have put forward.
I’m not suggesting he even starts in the 13, he could spell Adam Elliott and share those minutes. I’d much rather that then see Ryan Sutton playing 13 in any way shape or form, I’d really look to see CHN and Young in the backrow while giving Elliott a chance at lock somewhere along the way.

I think he can do it.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by greeneyed »

Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 10:19 pm Just double checking, Elliott lasted 5 games in the 13. 2 wins for 3 loses losing to Manly, Cowboys and Storm while beating the Titans and Sharks.

I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
It’s a lost cause for mine.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

greeneyed wrote: June 20, 2022, 11:31 pm
Postman Pat wrote: June 20, 2022, 10:19 pm Just double checking, Elliott lasted 5 games in the 13. 2 wins for 3 loses losing to Manly, Cowboys and Storm while beating the Titans and Sharks.

I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
It’s a lost cause for mine.
To be fair GE, he played very well in the first half of the first game v Cronulla at GIO. I was impressed and so were others - see the match Game Day for comments. Then we hardly saw him in the second half. He's not fit enough for long minutes. What really annoys me the most is the stupid penalties. You cannot set that example as a captain.

His defence has gotten progressively worse - think the 2nd Manly game last year when we lost by a point. Moses Suli treated him like a turnstile in the second half (and yes - it was him, and not Sammy).
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by kona_dream »

Is there any merit in moving Adam to hooker for 10 mins either side of half time to replace Zac. With Elliot moving to lock off the bench and leaving starling out? I know this would leave hooker very weak if Zac gets injured.

Our bench just looks unbalanced with a pure back and a hooker. I would love another great centre to start with seb on the bench with a hooker/forward like havli.

Our bench
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Billy Walker »

There seems to be a lot of novel ideas on how you can shuffle and disrupt both your forward pack and bench rotations in order to accommodate a guy who is badly on the decline confirmed by both the statistics and the eye test.

How about we just try something really different for us and opt to pick a better player in that position. Call me totally radical but I’m thinking perhaps one of our younger forwards who might develop and improve and give us decent output over a longer time.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by BadnMean »

Botman wrote: June 20, 2022, 7:20 pm That'd be a tough sell to me, given Hudson Young comes up with efforts like the first try of the knights game fairly regularly and EW is and always has been a pretty shakey defender himself

Simple reality about EW vs CHN, CHN is clearly the better footballer right now and has very clearly played better in pretty every facet of back row play this year and yet here we are. And to be clear that is very much a shot at the coaching staff. If the team was picked on merit, CHN would be comfortably ahead of EW.

The floor is yours to speculate as to why he's in reggies and Whitehead is starting every week.
Defending on the edge is tough. Whitehead was a bloody awesome defender at his peak. Workrate + hit with oomph and broke people + scramble for days. He's not that player anymore but let's not sell him short.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by BadnMean »

kona_dream wrote: June 21, 2022, 6:24 am Is there any merit in moving Adam to hooker for 10 mins either side of half time to replace Zac. With Elliot moving to lock off the bench and leaving starling out? I know this would leave hooker very weak if Zac gets injured.

Our bench just looks unbalanced with a pure back and a hooker. I would love another great centre to start with seb on the bench with a hooker/forward like havli.

Our bench
You mean... to use Adam at hooker exactly they way Ricky should be using Starling at hooker... but isn't?

It would be peak Ricky to misuse the specialist tool at his disposal only to fix his weird bench schedule for a makeshift hooker.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by GreenMachine »

Passenger.
Needs to join the Tigers..
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Billy Walker wrote: June 21, 2022, 7:10 am There seems to be a lot of novel ideas on how you can shuffle and disrupt both your forward pack and bench rotations in order to accommodate a guy who is badly on the decline confirmed by both the statistics and the eye test.

How about we just try something really different for us and opt to pick a better player in that position. Call me totally radical but I’m thinking perhaps one of our younger forwards who might develop and improve and give us decent output over a longer time.
I prefer the image of Stick writing on the glass windows at Raiders HQ like Rusty Crowe in A Beautiful Mind working on equations to keep EW in the team.

Would explain our directionless attack in the opposition 20 if this is how he's spending his day.
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Re: Elliott Whitehead

Post by kona_dream »

BadnMean wrote: June 21, 2022, 9:03 am
kona_dream wrote: June 21, 2022, 6:24 am Is there any merit in moving Adam to hooker for 10 mins either side of half time to replace Zac. With Elliot moving to lock off the bench and leaving starling out? I know this would leave hooker very weak if Zac gets injured.

Our bench just looks unbalanced with a pure back and a hooker. I would love another great centre to start with seb on the bench with a hooker/forward like havli.

Our bench
You mean... to use Adam at hooker exactly they way Ricky should be using Starling at hooker... but isn't?

It would be peak Ricky to misuse the specialist tool at his disposal only to fix his weird bench schedule for a makeshift hooker.
Yes, I think EW should be dropped but if Ricky thinks he adds leaders or whatever he thinks he does we simply cannot continue with our bench and use of it. Keeping a back on the bench simply for injury and split time hookers = 2nd half disasters.
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