2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
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2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Canberra Raiders V Melbourne Storm
Sunday 17 July, 4:05pm
Melbourne Rectangular Park
Tickets: Click here
TV coverage: Nine, Fox League Channel 502
Radio: ABC, Mix 106.3, 2CC
The Raiders have an Origin bye before heading to Melbourne for a clash with the Storm in Round 18. Who would you like to see line up in green in this match? Name your own team, and then see how close you were when the official teams are named on the Tuesday before the match. We will have the official squads in the first post of this thread, once they are announced.
OFFICIAL SQUADS
Canberra Raiders
1. Xavier Savage
2. Nick Cotric
3. Matt Timoko
4. Sebastian Kris
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Jack Wighton
7. Jamal Fogarty
8. Josh Papalii
9. Zac Woolford
10. Joe Tapine
11. Hudson Young
12. Elliott Whitehead (C)
13. Ryan Sutton
14. Tom Starling
15. James Schiller
16. Adam Elliott
17. Corey Horsburgh
18. Brad Schneider
19. Ata Mariota
20. Corey Harawira-Naera
21. Emre Guler
22. Albert Hopoate
Injury/Suspension
Semi Valemei, Knee (Rd 19-20)
Harry Rushton, Fractured jaw (Rd 25)
Trey Mooney, Ankle (Indefinite)
Jarrod Croker, Shoulder (Season)
Harley Smith-Shields, Knee (Season)
Josh Hodgson, Knee (Season)
Melbourne Storm
1. Ryan Papenhuyzen
2. Nick Meaney
3. Marion Seve
4. Justin Olam
5. Dean Ieremia
6. Cameron Munster
7. Jahrome Hughes
8. Jesse Bromwich
9. Harry Grant
10. Nelson Asofa-Solomona
11. Felise Kaufusi
12. Kenny Bromwich
13. Josh King
14. Tyran Wishart
15. Tui Kamikamica
16. Alec MacDonald
17. Jordan Grant
18. Jayden Nikorima
19. Chris Lewis
20. Tom Eisenhuth
21. Young Tonumaipea
22. Bronson Garlick
Injury/Suspension
Brandon Smith, Suspended (Rd 21)
Xavier Coates, Ankle (Rd 24)
Trent Loiero, Back (Indefinite)
Grant Anderson, Arm (Indefinite)
Christian Welch, Achilles (Season)
George Jennings, Knee (Season)
Reimis Smith, Pectoral (Season)
Officials
Referee: Ashley Klein
Touch judges: Phil Henderson, Drew Oultram
Video referee: Grant Atkins
NRL teams: Click here
NSW Cup teams: Click here
Jersey Flegg teams: Click here
Match Hashtags: #NRL #WeareRaiders #NRLStormRaiders
The Greenhouse Hashtags: #WearGreen2022 #FromAllAngles
Plus follow us on Twitter: @TheGHRaiders and Instagram: @TheGHRaiders
Canberra Raiders V Melbourne Storm
Sunday 17 July, 4:05pm
Melbourne Rectangular Park
Tickets: Click here
TV coverage: Nine, Fox League Channel 502
Radio: ABC, Mix 106.3, 2CC
The Raiders have an Origin bye before heading to Melbourne for a clash with the Storm in Round 18. Who would you like to see line up in green in this match? Name your own team, and then see how close you were when the official teams are named on the Tuesday before the match. We will have the official squads in the first post of this thread, once they are announced.
OFFICIAL SQUADS
Canberra Raiders
1. Xavier Savage
2. Nick Cotric
3. Matt Timoko
4. Sebastian Kris
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Jack Wighton
7. Jamal Fogarty
8. Josh Papalii
9. Zac Woolford
10. Joe Tapine
11. Hudson Young
12. Elliott Whitehead (C)
13. Ryan Sutton
14. Tom Starling
15. James Schiller
16. Adam Elliott
17. Corey Horsburgh
18. Brad Schneider
19. Ata Mariota
20. Corey Harawira-Naera
21. Emre Guler
22. Albert Hopoate
Injury/Suspension
Semi Valemei, Knee (Rd 19-20)
Harry Rushton, Fractured jaw (Rd 25)
Trey Mooney, Ankle (Indefinite)
Jarrod Croker, Shoulder (Season)
Harley Smith-Shields, Knee (Season)
Josh Hodgson, Knee (Season)
Melbourne Storm
1. Ryan Papenhuyzen
2. Nick Meaney
3. Marion Seve
4. Justin Olam
5. Dean Ieremia
6. Cameron Munster
7. Jahrome Hughes
8. Jesse Bromwich
9. Harry Grant
10. Nelson Asofa-Solomona
11. Felise Kaufusi
12. Kenny Bromwich
13. Josh King
14. Tyran Wishart
15. Tui Kamikamica
16. Alec MacDonald
17. Jordan Grant
18. Jayden Nikorima
19. Chris Lewis
20. Tom Eisenhuth
21. Young Tonumaipea
22. Bronson Garlick
Injury/Suspension
Brandon Smith, Suspended (Rd 21)
Xavier Coates, Ankle (Rd 24)
Trent Loiero, Back (Indefinite)
Grant Anderson, Arm (Indefinite)
Christian Welch, Achilles (Season)
George Jennings, Knee (Season)
Reimis Smith, Pectoral (Season)
Officials
Referee: Ashley Klein
Touch judges: Phil Henderson, Drew Oultram
Video referee: Grant Atkins
NRL teams: Click here
NSW Cup teams: Click here
Jersey Flegg teams: Click here
Match Hashtags: #NRL #WeareRaiders #NRLStormRaiders
The Greenhouse Hashtags: #WearGreen2022 #FromAllAngles
Plus follow us on Twitter: @TheGHRaiders and Instagram: @TheGHRaiders
The Greenhouse score update service
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- John Ferguson
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Drop fogarty, bring back Schneider for starters,
And put Jack on notice
And put Jack on notice
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Jack Wighton should be dropped.
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Someone with a brain would be a start ,
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Melbourne by 100. This could be the biggest flogging of all time on the cards.
- Raider47
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Team selections don't mean **** until there are significant changes.
In saying that, you just know CNK is coming in for Savage. Whitehead will stay. And we see the same old **** bench rotations.
In saying that, you just know CNK is coming in for Savage. Whitehead will stay. And we see the same old **** bench rotations.
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Wighton (u play here for ur state but ur club coach think otherwise)
4. Timoko
5. Cotric
6. Frawley
7. Schneider
8. Papa
9. Zac
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Mooney
13. Elliot
14. Starling
15. Horse
16. Sutton
17. Kris
Coach: McFadden
2. Rapana
3. Wighton (u play here for ur state but ur club coach think otherwise)
4. Timoko
5. Cotric
6. Frawley
7. Schneider
8. Papa
9. Zac
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Mooney
13. Elliot
14. Starling
15. Horse
16. Sutton
17. Kris
Coach: McFadden
"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had"!! RAIDERSTILLIDIE!!
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
We're going to get smashed.
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- John Ferguson
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Who else think Jack plays bad with added responsibility of playing in the halves? He’s not a spine player…. Put him in the centres!!
"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had"!! RAIDERSTILLIDIE!!
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Present: Strange
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Rapana
6. Schneider
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine (c)
11. Young
12. CHN
13. Wighton
14. Elliot
15. Mooney / Rushton
16. Sutton
17. Horsburgh
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2. Cotric
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Rapana
6. Schneider
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine (c)
11. Young
12. CHN
13. Wighton
14. Elliot
15. Mooney / Rushton
16. Sutton
17. Horsburgh
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- John Ferguson
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Wighton
4. Timoko
5. Rapana
6. Frawley
7. Schneider
8. Horse
9. Woolford
10. Tapine c
11. Young
12. Whitehead c
13. Elliot
14. Papalii
15. Kris
16. Mooney
17. Sutton
2. Cotric
3. Wighton
4. Timoko
5. Rapana
6. Frawley
7. Schneider
8. Horse
9. Woolford
10. Tapine c
11. Young
12. Whitehead c
13. Elliot
14. Papalii
15. Kris
16. Mooney
17. Sutton
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Boys v Men.
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- John Ferguson
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2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Do you know what worries me most about this game? It’s the beer afterwards that Ricky has with Bellamy. I’m sure a few years back that’s where Curtis Scott was sold to Rick hook line and sinker… I wonder what “flog” Bellamy has lined up for Ricky this year… no secret they need to free up salary cap to maintain Munster
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
On the plus side at least it’s an away game so we won’t be doing the Viking clap
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Even if every Storm origin player didn't backup, we still lose.
But as we have to show up in some way shape or form for the executives to get their pay checks I would like us to look towards the future a bit more at least:
1 - Savage
2 - Cotric
3 - Wighton
4 - Kris
5 - Rapana
6 - Schneider
7 - Frawley
8 - Papalii
9 - Woolford
10 - Tapine (c)
11 - Young
12 - Rushton
13 - Elliot
14 - Sutton
15 - Horsburgh
16 - Mooney
17 - CHN
18 - Timoko
Even that is with at least two players who aren't showing up for us next year, but we can't drop everyone at once I guess. I picked Kris over Timoko even though they were both below average tonight... Timoko was our worst defender out there, on the odd occasions he even got involved, so he goes over Kris.
But as we have to show up in some way shape or form for the executives to get their pay checks I would like us to look towards the future a bit more at least:
1 - Savage
2 - Cotric
3 - Wighton
4 - Kris
5 - Rapana
6 - Schneider
7 - Frawley
8 - Papalii
9 - Woolford
10 - Tapine (c)
11 - Young
12 - Rushton
13 - Elliot
14 - Sutton
15 - Horsburgh
16 - Mooney
17 - CHN
18 - Timoko
Even that is with at least two players who aren't showing up for us next year, but we can't drop everyone at once I guess. I picked Kris over Timoko even though they were both below average tonight... Timoko was our worst defender out there, on the odd occasions he even got involved, so he goes over Kris.
Last edited by Ultima on July 3, 2022, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- PerthRaider86
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Rushton in and I'd have that line up
Perth Based Raiders Fan
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Not that it matters for this game but I'd really like us to move forward with something like this:
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Schneider
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Elliott
14. Trevilyan
15. Horsburgh
16. Rushton
17. Mooney
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Timoko
4. Kris
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Schneider
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Elliott
14. Trevilyan
15. Horsburgh
16. Rushton
17. Mooney
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
If the coach is R. Stuart and the captain is E. Whitehead then for the first time in 3 decades, I'm out.
That was the final straw in a haystack full of displays ENTIRELY down to poor leadership on and off field.
I've met Don Jr several times, in a variety of ways. Suffice to say he's fit to run a Boost Juice, but not an NRL outfit.
That was the final straw in a haystack full of displays ENTIRELY down to poor leadership on and off field.
I've met Don Jr several times, in a variety of ways. Suffice to say he's fit to run a Boost Juice, but not an NRL outfit.
- yurithe1
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Some hard decisions need to be made. I doubt Ricky will make them, but:
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways and pass out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways and pass out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
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- John Ferguson
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Whitehead should be out of the team - by moving him to the bench is not a hard decision. Weyurithe1 wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 1:24 am Some hard decisions need to be made. I doubt Ricky will make them, but:
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways and pass out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
Need Mooney and Rushton getting game time, bcoz like the over rated coach did say about Xavier - he needs game time.
"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had"!! RAIDERSTILLIDIE!!
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
I’ll still be doing the Viking fart sitting at home on the couchAzza wrote:On the plus side at least it’s an away game so we won’t be doing the Viking clap
- Roger Kenworthy
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Elliott is too good to ride the pine for us. That's the state we're in.yurithe1 wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 1:24 am Some hard decisions need to be made. I doubt Ricky will make them, but:
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways and pass out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
Sutton adds very little despite the GH hype he's had through the years.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Can somebody post our W/L stats with and without Jack Wighton this season?
While they're at it, can they do the same stats for NSW?
I'm curious to see this.
While they're at it, can they do the same stats for NSW?
I'm curious to see this.
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Grow a pair and drop Wighton, Ricky.
He's had a single good game this season and it wasn't at 5/8th, nor for the Raiders.
He's had a single good game this season and it wasn't at 5/8th, nor for the Raiders.
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Same, Naked and in fishnets.The Nickman wrote:I’ll still be doing the Viking fart sitting at home on the couchAzza wrote:On the plus side at least it’s an away game so we won’t be doing the Viking clap
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
DefinatelyThe Nickman wrote:Wanna Facetime?
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Well off you go then
- yurithe1
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Sutton's stats for this year so far:Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 8:31 amElliott is too good to ride the pine for us. That's the state we're in.yurithe1 wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 1:24 am Some hard decisions need to be made. I doubt Ricky will make them, but:
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways before passing out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
Sutton adds very little despite the GH hype he's had through the years.
Appearances 11.
Scoring. Tries 0.
Attack. Tackle Breaks 8. Average Hit Ups 9.1. Average running metres unavailable*. Post Contact Metres 407.3 (37.02 per game or about 4.1 m per hit-up). Passing. Offloads 3.
Defence. Tackles Made 338. Tackle Efficiency. 93.9 %.
**Plays an average of 46 mins per game.
Whitehead's stats in comparison:
Appearances: 14 ; Scoring. Tries: 2
Attack. Tackle Breaks: 3 ; Average Hit Ups unavailable*. Post Contact Metres unavailable*; Passing. Offloads: 12
Defence. Tackles Made: 447 Tackle efficiency 92.2%.
**Plays an average of 68 mins per game.
* Unavailable even though I used the Raiders official site for both.
** Supercoach stats.
So, give Whitehead time on the bench and bring him in fresh for Sutton or CHN with 10 to go in the first half. Then monitor him during the second half to decide when to swap him out. That task should be left to an assistant coach based on what we've seen of Ricky's bench management. Otherwise, he'll be cheerleading until there's only 8 minutes to go.
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Being in a statistical frame of mind, I checked our halves options.
Out of five games, Fogarty has had three try assists and one offload out of five appearances. Five forced drop outs.
Frawley has only one forced drop out, but he did score that cracker of a try. So, at least he asks questions of the defence.
Schneider has scored a try and can kick goals. Three try assists and two line-break assists. Two forced dropouts, although he doesn't have a huge boot, but that is supposedly what Wighton provides. The downside I thought would be his defence, but his tackle efficiency is about the same as Frawley's. Considering how pedestrian our attack has been, I've changed my mind and would take a chance on him again rather than Frawley or Fogs.
Out of five games, Fogarty has had three try assists and one offload out of five appearances. Five forced drop outs.
Frawley has only one forced drop out, but he did score that cracker of a try. So, at least he asks questions of the defence.
Schneider has scored a try and can kick goals. Three try assists and two line-break assists. Two forced dropouts, although he doesn't have a huge boot, but that is supposedly what Wighton provides. The downside I thought would be his defence, but his tackle efficiency is about the same as Frawley's. Considering how pedestrian our attack has been, I've changed my mind and would take a chance on him again rather than Frawley or Fogs.
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Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Adam Elliott I was meaning. Def on board with Whitehead finishing the year in NSW Cup. Although to be honest he may struggle there.yurithe1 wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 3:28 pmSutton's stats for this year so far:Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 8:31 amElliott is too good to ride the pine for us. That's the state we're in.yurithe1 wrote: ↑July 4, 2022, 1:24 am Some hard decisions need to be made. I doubt Ricky will make them, but:
1. Savage
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. CNK - Timoko wasn't as involved against the Dragons as Kris. If Savage struggles, he can slot
straight back in.
5. Cotric
6. Wighton. Face it. Ricky will never drop his golden child.
7. Frawley because he's got the better kicking game of Wighton and Fogarty and he can tackle. That
last part negates whatever remaining reason there might have been to keep Fogs.
8. Horsburgh offers more than Papalii at the moment. Papa is looking slow and not bending the
line like he used to.
9. Woolford
10. Tapine <C>he is the future and according to Sticky, a future Kiwis captain as well.
11. Young
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Sutton
14. Elliot. Starling doing the two-step sideways before passing out of dummy half is killing us. He took
on the line once against the Dragons. Hasn't been the same since he got arrested.
15. Papalii
16. Whitehead <C>
17. Rushton
18. Mooney
Sutton adds very little despite the GH hype he's had through the years.
Appearances 11.
Scoring. Tries 0.
Attack. Tackle Breaks 8. Average Hit Ups 9.1. Average running metres unavailable*. Post Contact Metres 407.3 (37.02 per game or about 4.1 m per hit-up). Passing. Offloads 3.
Defence. Tackles Made 338. Tackle Efficiency. 93.9 %.
**Plays an average of 46 mins per game.
Whitehead's stats in comparison:
Appearances: 14 ; Scoring. Tries: 2
Attack. Tackle Breaks: 3 ; Average Hit Ups unavailable*. Post Contact Metres unavailable*; Passing. Offloads: 12
Defence. Tackles Made: 447 Tackle efficiency 92.2%.
**Plays an average of 68 mins per game.
* Unavailable even though I used the Raiders official site for both.
** Supercoach stats.
So, give Whitehead time on the bench and bring him in fresh for Sutton or CHN with 10 to go in the first half. Then monitor him during the second half to decide when to swap him out. That task should be left to an assistant coach based on what we've seen of Ricky's bench management. Otherwise, he'll be cheerleading until there's only 8 minutes to go.
Sutton isn't as impactful as his numbers suggest for mine. Opposition defenses get to relax when he has the ball.
Re: 2022 Rd 18 V Storm: Teams and Previews
Sutton and Whitehead should be playing NSW cup, bring in CHN and Rushton/Mooney.