The pain threshold

[Mickey_Raider]

So what I want to know is this:

What do you think is the pain threshold at which even a set up such as the Raiders Boys Club takes action and implements wholesale change either at the very top or somewhere close to it?

I am not interested in hearing hyperbolic responses about how Ricky will be here until 2069 etc.

We know that if things are bad enough, the Boys club will ultimately take action. The CEO had to sack his brother in 2013 for god sake.

The problem isn’t that it is impossible. The problem is that the pain threshold at this club is so, so much higher than at other clubs.

For example, Ricky would not have survived 2018 at about 75% of NRL clubs. And 15% of the remaining clubs would have him looking over his shoulder in 2022 seeing as we are looking like missing the finals for the 2nd year running.

So my question is, realistically, what needs to happen before the Boys club get restless? Do we need to míss the fínals 4 years in a row? Do we need a wooden spoon?

What is the pain threshold at this club?

[Botman]

Its high... the problem is im not sure you've not identified the right pain threshold to talk about

If things get bad enough, yeah, they'll get rid of Stuart, or more likely come to an agreement with him that it's time for him to move to the next phase of his footballing life if he desires it

You're talking about coaching/ceo changes at this club... and there is a pain threshold for that and it's fairly high. I'd say it's missing the finals many years in a row and it's probably the embarrassment of a spoon mixed in... but honestly, who **** cares?

Lets say we win the spoon 3 years in a row and the coach and ceo get sent packing... we'll get a new coach and a new CEO, and we'll be on the same car but with a fresh paint job

The question has to be what is the pain threshold to make changes at the board level. To get people in those position who are serious about doing all they can to see the NRL team succeed. To be driven by that desire, to prioritise that, to the level that is required to be cut throat in their decisions related to the club and it's performance, to move away from a model where right now the Canberra Raiders are a vanity project for ownership, a side project that lets their QBN mates have something to do, and if they happen to win some footy games so so much the better.

Until that changes. Coach/CEO/Players... you can luck into a combination of those that produces a premiership winning team because it all clicks in the right way for that one year... sustained success? Forget about it.

[Riaan]

What ever happened with Dave Furner is the threshold, only coach we have got rid of mid season.
As for the board probably nothing will ever happen unless we hit serious financial issues, which probably won’t happen as we are probably one of the better corporately run teams in the league.

[Riaan]

What ever happened with Dave Furner is the threshold, only coach we have got rid of mid season.
As for the board probably nothing will ever happen unless we hit serious financial issues, which probably won’t happen as we are probably one of the better corporately run teams in the league.

[FuiFui BradBrad]

I would say if the Ricky / Eels drama didn’t happen, Dave wouldn’t have been cut mid contract. That was just a move to bring a prodigal son home.

Wasn’t Bonehead saying at the time that Dave would need to lose 30 in a row before he was concerned?

[Billy Walker]

It’s a product that people consume and while the fans keep lapping it up the board has no need to change anything.

I can point to posts on here proudly saying we are enjoying our most successful period since the 90’s and that success is more than premierships.

There are other fans on here that seemingly have conceded there are too many factors against the raiders to see them ever win a premiership again - but they accept that and will support the club every week.

Supporter fill the hole left by a lack of premiership success with a weird excitement for a player’s pursuit of meaningless individual records.

The merchandise keeps selling, every other week a modest crowd rocks up and does the Viking clap and we blame the refs, weather and unconscious bias for our lack of a properly functioning successful organisation.

There is no pressure on the board, the management, the coach or the players.

The media are sympathetic and the fans, who grumble about conspiracy, the coach and one or 2 players are otherwise content.

Without any pressure being created the fans really are loving this club to death. Nothing is changing - there is no pain threshold, the supporters who remain have and will continue to tolerate anything which has bred extraordinary complacency in the club.

Happy days!

[dubby]

I would say if the Ricky / Eels drama didn’t happen, Dave wouldn’t have been cut mid contract. That was just a move to bring a prodigal son home.

Wasn’t Bonehead saying at the time that Dave would need to lose 30 in a row before he was concerned?

Classic Sommers

[The Nickman]

I would say if the Ricky / Eels drama didn’t happen, Dave wouldn’t have been cut mid contract. That was just a move to bring a prodigal son home.

Wasn’t Bonehead saying at the time that Dave would need to lose 30 in a row before he was concerned?

Classic Sommers

[bonehead]

I would say if the Ricky / Eels drama didn’t happen, Dave wouldn’t have been cut mid contract. That was just a move to bring a prodigal son home.

Wasn’t Bonehead saying at the time that Dave would need to lose 30 in a row before he was concerned?

Classic Sommers

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[T_R]

I suspect they look at different metrics than win/lose. It will be when they're playing in front of empty stadiums and memberships are flatlining that anything happens. Until then, if people keep showing up and the bank balance is ticking over, why do they care?

Keep in mind that the rugby league team is just a very small part of the Raiders set up. I expect folk are more concerned about poker machine revenue and licensing laws than they are over onfield performance.

Edit: ****. Just realised I agreed with Billy for the second post in a row.

[The Nickman]

I suspect they look at different metrics than win/lose. It will be when they're playing in front of empty stadiums and memberships are flatlining that anything happens. Until then, if people keep showing up and the bank balance is ticking over, why do they care?

Keep in mind that the rugby league team is just a very small part of the Raiders set up. I expect folk are more concerned about poker machine revenue and licensing laws than they are over onfield performance.

Edit: ****. Just realised I agreed with Billy for the second post in a row.

Haha old Billy and TR, mates from way back

[Finchy]

It’s a product that people consume and while the fans keep lapping it up the board has no need to change anything.

I can point to posts on here proudly saying we are enjoying our most successful period since the 90’s and that success is more than premierships.

There are other fans on here that seemingly have conceded there are too many factors against the raiders to see them ever win a premiership again - but they accept that and will support the club every week.

Supporter fill the hole left by a lack of premiership success with a weird excitement for a player’s pursuit of meaningless individual records.

The merchandise keeps selling, every other week a modest crowd rocks up and does the Viking clap and we blame the refs, weather and unconscious bias for our lack of a properly functioning successful organisation.

There is no pressure on the board, the management, the coach or the players.

The media are sympathetic and the fans, who grumble about conspiracy, the coach and one or 2 players are otherwise content.

Without any pressure being created the fans really are loving this club to death. Nothing is changing - there is no pain threshold, the supporters who remain have and will continue to tolerate anything which has bred extraordinary complacency in the club.

Happy days!

This is very accurate. The middle part is me.

[Billy Walker]

I suspect they look at different metrics than win/lose. It will be when they're playing in front of empty stadiums and memberships are flatlining that anything happens. Until then, if people keep showing up and the bank balance is ticking over, why do they care?

Keep in mind that the rugby league team is just a very small part of the Raiders set up. I expect folk are more concerned about poker machine revenue and licensing laws than they are over onfield performance.

Edit: ****. Just realised I agreed with Billy for the second post in a row.

Haha old Billy and TR, mates from way back

I can’t believe you have stumbled on my only alt

[The Nickman]

I suspect they look at different metrics than win/lose. It will be when they're playing in front of empty stadiums and memberships are flatlining that anything happens. Until then, if people keep showing up and the bank balance is ticking over, why do they care?

Keep in mind that the rugby league team is just a very small part of the Raiders set up. I expect folk are more concerned about poker machine revenue and licensing laws than they are over onfield performance.

Edit: ****. Just realised I agreed with Billy for the second post in a row.

Haha old Billy and TR, mates from way back

I can’t believe you have stumbled on my only alt

It does make sense... the TR character is a bit too ridiculous to ACTUALLY exist in real life

[Roger Kenworthy]

What ever happened with Dave Furner is the threshold, only coach we have got rid of mid season.
As for the board probably nothing will ever happen unless we hit serious financial issues, which probably won’t happen as we are probably one of the better corporately run teams in the league.

You're probably right

[The Nickman]

He's probably right.

[Botman]

About the board?

[Hong Kong Raider]

With Ricky's record of 3 finals appearances out of 9 (assuming we don't make it this year and although I am an optimist I don't think we will), I would say 80% of NRL clubs would review the head coaching position. What do we do - offer him an extension in perpetuity.

It's time to move on now. He's had his time. The club sucks in that it is so unprofessional. The football fans suffer.

For instance, Des Hasler made the GF with Canterbury in 2012 and 2014, and finals appearances in the years that he missed the GF. In 2017 he didn't make the finals (11th out of 16) and still got sacked. And he won the comp with Manly in 2008 and 2011. When did Ricky (Gus Gould) last win the comp?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Des_Hasler

For Mbye and Eastwood on inflated ridiculous contracts, substitute Croker and Whitehead.

For Raelene Castle EDIT, substitute DFJ.

As Alan Jones said:

"It is immensely disturbing to rugby fans that Raelene Castle was, in part at least, the architect of the Canterbury Bulldogs ridiculous back-ended contract policy," Jones wrote. "Her involvement in this shows that she's either naive in contractual matters or what would be worse, doesn't care about the mess she leaves behind.

"If the board of Rugby Australia did no due diligence ... then they have betrayed our game."

Maybe DFJ and our board are betraying us?

[Hong Kong Raider]

I tried looking up what Furner's background is, but he's not on Linkedin. But he appears to be an accountant by training.

This is what he previously said:

https://www.news.com.au/sponsored/9nFKR ... on-furner/

“It’s fickle,” says Don Furner, CEO of the Canberra Raiders. “If you’re losing on the field, it goes pear-shaped off the field. You can have all the best plans in place – the best marketing, the best strategy – but if you lose on the field, people stop coming through the gates, sponsorship dries up. Essentially, your revenue is directly linked to the team’s performance. It’s hard to predict, and it’s hard to budget for.”

Mr Furner has been at the heart of The Canberra Raiders for some 20 years, making him the game’s longest-serving club boss, although still only aged in his early 50s.

So it may take low crowds, and the lack of sponsorship, with the money drying up for the pain threshold to be activated.

[The Nickman]

About the board?

About everything, dammit!

[T_R]

I tried looking up what Furner's background is, but he's not on Linkedin. But he appears to be an accountant by training.

It's come up before (and he DID used to be on Linkedin...guess he figured he has a job for life and now doesn't need to be). At that time, his qualifications were listed as " Bachelor of Arts - University of New England ".

[Azza]

About the board?

About everything, dammit!

We need to sacrifice a baby ox at halftime, then success will come

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[Botman]

Hey, Raiders, wait up! I wanna die too!

[Raider of d Lost Ark]

The pain threshold is when Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine sit on a roof top, sinking cruisers and posting selfie’s on social media.

[Dr Greenthumb]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

[Finchy]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

[Dr Greenthumb]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

[Finchy]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

[Dr Greenthumb]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Thats why I ended my post with that exact point.

[Finchy]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Thats why I ended my post with that exact point.

And that’s why I’m making that argument. I don’t see a lot of our woes as “legitimate excuses”, I see them as Ricky’s failures.

[Dr Greenthumb]

Just curious as to who signed Curtis “ the human circus” Scott?

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Thats why I ended my post with that exact point.

And that’s why I’m making that argument. I don’t see a lot of our woes as “legitimate excuses”, I see them as Ricky’s failures.

But I didn't "absolve" Ricky Stuart from the blame. I just pointed out that, whether you agree with them or not, Don will see them reasonable excuses to keep him around. Until we have a season with no significant injuries and no off-field drama, Stuart isn't going anywhere.

[Finchy]

Rhetorical question or do you mean who signed him for next season?

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Thats why I ended my post with that exact point.

And that’s why I’m making that argument. I don’t see a lot of our woes as “legitimate excuses”, I see them as Ricky’s failures.

But I didn't "absolve" Ricky Stuart from the blame. I just pointed out that, whether you agree with them or not, Don will see them reasonable excuses to keep him around. Until we have a season with no significant injuries and no off-field drama, Stuart isn't going anywhere.

I didn't read the "legitimate excuses" part as being from Don's perspective. In that case, yes, Stuart won't be going anywhere.

[Billy Walker]

Rhetorical. Absolving Ricky of some blame because Curtis Scott was **** isn’t really fair, because he signed him! We knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Thats why I ended my post with that exact point.

And that’s why I’m making that argument. I don’t see a lot of our woes as “legitimate excuses”, I see them as Ricky’s failures.

But I didn't "absolve" Ricky Stuart from the blame. I just pointed out that, whether you agree with them or not, Don will see them reasonable excuses to keep him around. Until we have a season with no significant injuries and no off-field drama, Stuart isn't going anywhere.

I didn't read the "legitimate excuses" part as being from Don's perspective. In that case, yes, Stuart won't be going anywhere.

I’m with you on this Finchy, not signing tools to begin with and keeping a good culture so players don’t bugger off mid season is all on coach and club.

[Off]

Non performing public servants.

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[benda]

I'm no fan of Ricky Stuart's coaching, but the problem is there are legitimate excuses for our failures in the last couple of seasons. The George Williams and Curtis Scott stuff really did screw us last year. This year it's been the injuries. We've used more spine players/combinations than any other team and it hasn't been by choice. I'm not saying the results would have been much different had these things not happened, but they did.

For Stuart to get the chop, we'd need to see results that we are seeing now without the excuses of players buggering off, getting involved in off field incidents or getting injured. But then again, you could easily argue Stuart can control some of those things (better strength and conditioning and recruiting players that aren't unstable).

Its fair to say he can't be blamed for how some things turned out.
However there are decisions around certain signings that look really wrong now could be attributed to simply poor judgement.

I feel like Stuart is a great bloke. And can be a solid coach. What i think hurts his ability to succeed is passion around and players.