Canterbury Bulldogs 2023

[Postman Pat]

Dogs on a signing spree
Taffe
Knight
WGD
Rumoured to have signed Taukeiaho

What is their Salary Cap and are they just buying anyone.

Gould can certainly open up third party deals (especially when Landry doesn’t disclose them to the press).

Apparently looking at Connor Watson now as well, I’m sure moving on RFM and Sutton will free up enough cap space.

[gerg]

Dogs on a signing spree
Taffe
Knight
WGD
Rumoured to have signed Taukeiaho

What is their Salary Cap and are they just buying anyone.

Gould can certainly open up third party deals (especially when Landry doesn’t disclose them to the press).

Apparently looking at Connor Watson now as well, I’m sure moving on RFM and Sutton will free up enough cap space.

In the past few years they've allegedly signed Cotric, Burton, Allen and JAC - all on fullback money. Now another one, Crichton, on fullback money. Shirley questions need to be asked?

[dubby]

They just keep signing ploders

[Finchy]

Yeah they’re in a Tigers or Dolphins situation where they’ll recruit just about anybody. Desperate times

[LimeGreenMachine]

It appears they don't know what they need. They recruit anyone. .Gould has apparently said that they haven't told anyone they are free to go.
So their top 30 next year will have 50 players

[Finchy]

Gus is very careful with his words. Like the Faitala-Mariner and Sutton stories.

Gus: “No one has been told they have to leave the club”
Matt Thompson: “Yeah but being told they can look around is different to being told they have to leave”
Gus: “Well they havent been told that either”

The truth of it is they have players under contract they want to move on, so no one is claiming they’ve been told they “have to leave”. Gus and Ciraldo probably told them they aren’t in their plans for first grade next year and those players can then take it upon themselves to seek a release and a new contract elsewhere. Gus being selective with the truth.

It’s amazing how often Gus flat out denies something that turns out to be 100% true a few weeks later.

[zim]

It's strange he even bothers. Like trying to control a narrative everyone else has already decided on and moved on from.

[-PJ-]

Fox Sports are reporting a player has walked out on the club after he was punished at training because he rocked up late for a session. His punishment… to wrestle 12 players. The player is contracted for 2024 and is unnamed.

‘Isn’t right’: Ciraldo grilled over Dog’s walkout as coach admits harsh culture truth: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... b2783ff3e1

Bulldogs player walks out on club as details of brutal training ‘punishment’ emerge: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 4e3ace0ced

[zim]

Whether he was late or not was a matter of debate for the player as well. Told to be there in a certain time frame which he thought he was.

[Botman]

Strange story. Not a good look

[-TW-]

Bit of the Adelaide Crows training camp debacle about that story

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[yeh raiders]

Interesting isn't it.. in a regular corporate environment, they'd call a punishment "bullying".

These days, whatever the penalty is, it should be in their contract. If you don't comply, here are the list of penalties. Sign it or sign elsewhere.

Am I right in saying the last 4 teams Phil Gould has had a full time employment gig at are the Roosters, Penrith, Warriors and Bulldogs?

[reptar]

The punishment is wrestling Gould?

[-PJ-]

The punishment is wrestling Gould?

Or rubbing lotion into his bunions.

[Riaan]

Strange story. Not a good look

Not really. Every club has a punishment for being late for training.

[The Nickman]

Strange story. Not a good look

Not really. Every club has a punishment for being late for training.

Yeah, at the raiders you have to watch old Rocky Stewart press conferences on loop.

[Botman]

Strange story. Not a good look

Not really. Every club has a punishment for being late for training.

And how many of them are considered weird and degrading enough to have a player walk out?
These hazing style punishments are just not really appropriate anymore and it's speaks pretty poorly of the head coach and senior leaders that they thought this nonsense was going to be OK in 2023.

I reiterate, strange story and not a good look.

[Riaan]

Strange story. Not a good look

Not really. Every club has a punishment for being late for training.

And how many of them are considered weird and degrading enough to have a player walk out?
These hazing style punishments are just not really appropriate anymore and it's speaks pretty poorly of the head coach and senior leaders that they thought this nonsense was going to be OK in 2023.

I reiterate, strange story and not a good look.

This isn’t the public service Botman, it’s a highly competitive, high performance environment. If you need to take ‘mental health leave’ after been made to extras after rolling in late to training, then maybe the NRL isn’t for you.

[BJ]

Punishment has to fit the crime.

Obviously the player didn’t think so.

A good leader in the playing group, probably stops the wrestling after 3 or 4 players knowing the point has been made.

I remember getting 200 pushups at training and after I’d made a good effort, I was told to stop and get back to the 3 on 2 drill. I obviously still remember it after almost 30 years. So I’d say lesson learnt.

[Botman]

Depends on the "extras" though doesnt it?
It's a professional environment like any other workplace, and employees should not be subjected to hazing/bullying rituals to establish "culture"
That **** is garbage and frankly always has been. People who have to rely on that to establish culture are clowns who have no business being in the jobs they're in. Anyone who thinks thats how culture is established does not understand what culture is and how to foster it.

Every club makes players who transgress do "extras"... but there is a line. And this player felt the line between reasonable and accepted practices was breached.
Making a bloke who runs late running some laps or dropping him for a week for failing to adhere to the standards or what have you, thath appens every week and no one walks out on their clubs about it... but being made to wrestle 12 players.. the implication is clear, it's an exercise to degrade and embarrass the player. Which is not acceptable in any way shape or form in any work place.

[gerg]

I'm not sure we can criticise the punishment without a proper understanding of the 'base level' of training. For all we know a standard training session includes wrestling 6 teammates?

[BJ]

I'm not sure we can criticise the punishment without a proper understanding of the 'base level' of training. For all we know a standard training session includes wrestling 6 teammates?

I presume the player wouldn’t have walked out if that was the case.

But I agree it would be good to get some context. I remember Scotty Freeman returning from a Shoulder Injury and trying to prove his fitness by “having to tackle Sam Backo running straight at him”.

[gerg]

I'm not sure we can criticise the punishment without a proper understanding of the 'base level' of training. For all we know a standard training session includes wrestling 6 teammates?

I presume the player wouldn’t have walked out if that was the case.

But I agree it would be good to get some context. I remember Scotty Freeman returning from a Shoulder Injury and trying to prove his fitness by “having to tackle Sam Backo running straight at him”.

What about a TPJ? He would use any excuse to do any extras.

You can't blame the coach for try to set some standards and change the culture of the place. They're **** and have been for a few years. They've tried to buy their way out of it and failed. I don't necessarily agree with their recruitment targets but I guess they're now trying to work harder to dig themselves out. Coach's job is on the line.

[greeneyed]

Bulldogs players reveal brutal details of training session that broke teammate

The player who walked away from the Bulldogs over a training ground punishment was barely 10 minutes late on the day of his indiscretion. The player was forced to drop to his knees and wrestle every fit member of the squad during an exhausting exercise that left him battered and bruised, an ordeal known across the game as ‘shark bait’.

“It was a knee wrestle where you’ve got to get your opponent onto their back,” one Bulldogs player said.“He was made to wrestle everyone and you can imagine how fatigued he got. It was everyone in the top 30 squad apart from the injured guys. I thought ‘what the **** was that.’ It was pretty ordinary. A lot of players didn’t want to do it.”

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... b737f6f702

[gerg]

If the players/teams have a name for the practice then surely it's not that uncommon as far as punishment goes in the NRL.

[Northern Raider]

If the players/teams have a name for the practice then surely it's not that uncommon as far as punishment goes in the NRL.

Yeah, if it's "known across the game" then it's not exclusive to Ciraldo at the Dogs.

The club is trapped in a malaise that no amount of coaching and personnel changes can fix. The problems are rooted much deeper in the organisation.

[Botman]

It's paywalled online but a colleague left his paper around in the lunch room today and i caught this article in the SMH
I've got pretty strong views on this sort of thing, and how it's just a really poor way to try and establish and maintain culture.


And the questions this article asks I think are worth thinking about.

"But what happens when the footballers are pushed too far? And how far is too far? When does pushing athletes to their limits become a hazing ritual?"
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/bulldo ... 5e0qk.html


Reminds me a lot of parents who use physical violence to control behaviour, despite the evidence being very clear it's one of the least effective and most harmful ways to go about it... but much like parents who say "getting belted as a kid never did me any harm!".
Coaches are generally ex players who have come through the game on some level and these sorts of things "never did them any harm" and so on we march.

But I guarantee you there are better and more effective ways to establish a culture and set standards for your team that outdated hazing rituals that cause your players extreme physical and in cases, emotional distress. And i think coaches who don't understand that and aren't on the forefront of finding better ways to be leaders and establish that culture are DOA in 2023 and beyond.
Doesn't mean you can't push your players hard and be a tough, hard nosed footy team.

[greeneyed]

It's paywalled online but a colleague left his paper around in the lunch room today and i caught this article in the SMH
I've got pretty strong views on this sort of thing, and how it's just a really poor way to try and establish and maintain culture.


And the questions this article asks I think are worth thinking about.

"But what happens when the footballers are pushed too far? And how far is too far? When does pushing athletes to their limits become a hazing ritual?"
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/bulldo ... 5e0qk.html


Reminds me a lot of parents who use physical violence to control behaviour, despite the evidence being very clear it's one of the least effective and most harmful ways to go about it... but much like parents who say "getting belted as a kid never did me any harm!".
Coaches are generally ex players who have come through the game on some level and these sorts of things "never did them any harm" and so on we march.

But I guarantee you there are better and more effective ways to establish a culture and set standards for your team that outdated hazing rituals that cause your players extreme physical and in cases, emotional distress. And i think coaches who don't understand that and aren't on the forefront of finding better ways to be leaders and establish that culture are DOA in 2023 and beyond.
Doesn't mean you can't push your players hard and be a tough, hard nosed footy team.

I agree with this. The story in The Daily Telegraph shows the practices are widespread. Sure send them home if they’re late for training. Or monetary fines. But forcing players to bleach their hair, or things like that, which some find humiliating… it’s just not on in 2023.


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[Botman]

We've seen time and time again practices in sport go on much longer than they should

The reason collision sports teams stop going to training and bashing the crap out of each other is the evidence showed it wasn't effective, there was better and safer ways to go about the training.
But it took years after that was clear before enough people got into positions of power to alter that mindset before it became the norm that team mates didn't bash the crap out of each other Monday to Friday

And the collective culture moves even more slowly in sports when it comes to punishment/hazing

[dubby]

I think there's a lot more to this than we know.

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[The Nickman]

I think there's a lot more to this than we know.

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Oh really? What have you heard?

[dubby]

I think there's a lot more to this than we know.

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Oh really? What have you heard?

Just a gut feeling



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[Dr Zaius]

I'd agree with Dubby. Sure, wrestling as punishment in a corporate environment would be weird and completely inappropriate. However wrestling is surely something that NRL players do in several training sessions per week. Is it a far reach from say doing shuttle runs and burpees as punishment? I'm not sure. Maybe the coaching staff see it as a more useful punishment than cardiovascular fitness, practice of a more transferable skill to game day. In any sense, I don't think that in the context of a professional athlete in a very heavy contact sport such as league that it is the extreme form of hazing that some are making out. I'd put money on this being widespread in the NRL, and long standing. I'm not sure that I'd actually want someone that gets the huffs about it and storms out of training in my team. We leads me to think that there is more to it than is being reported.

[The Nickman]

I also would've accepted "Oh, I just like the bulldogs"

[BJ]

Could be ‘more’ to the story?
My experience with the Daily Telegraph is that there is usually ‘less’ to the story.