The Nickman wrote:This whole argument of not being able to buy superstars as an excuse for quite frankly, **** ordinary coaching, is a bit ridiculous to me.
In the last 25 years of the NRL era, the best coach I’ve seen has been Craig Bellamy, hands down.
The best team I’ve seen in the last 25 years, again, hands down, is the Penrith juggernaut of the last five years.
Neither the Melbourne Storm OR the Penrith Panthers have based their successes around buying superstars, in fact they both have a system of developing their own solid junior base and teaching the players to come through with fantastic systems and structures. Essentially every player knows his role on the field.
And this is something our coach has consistently failed at for 11 years. Now, it appears he’s finally figured out the blueprint for success, and the building blocks have been put in place for success in about another half a decade, but why has he taken this long?
And following on from that point, why was he completely unable to build anything from our successes of 2019/20, and in fact the team went completely backwards to the point an entirely new rebuild was even required?
He’s still a very poor coach, in my opinion, although I do have optimism for the recent steps he’s taken for both this season and the next three to four years.
But in the immortal words of Mark Gasnier, “when is enough, too nuff?”
We had a junior development philosophy from well before David Furner was coach here, but that fell apart because of player misbehaviour and the club getting the **** with losing all its promising juniors. Ricky tried the recruit model. Didn't get the premiership but the return was reasonable and now we're focusing again on those junior pathways. Why couldn't we do both when he arrived? Like NR suggested (and others) the results and general standard have been good but I just want to see a damn premiership.
It's a bit different from the Furner days as he didn't cherry pick the top juniors from outside to the same extent. I don't think the club had a decent junior imported from Sydney for years, most of Furners group were local juniors or from Souths Logan. Different with under 20s as well as it was such a big focus for bringing players through, the better ones tended to play up early and then play a lot less reserve grade before debuting. Now it seems like the pathways is a bit more structured from Matts up.
Ricky did seem to get burned big time when Milford left and they lost the Souths Logan link in his first year, which slowed the juniors down a bit. He brought in Mulholland for 2016 and that started to turn it around though.
The Nickman wrote:This whole argument of not being able to buy superstars as an excuse for quite frankly, **** ordinary coaching, is a bit ridiculous to me.
In the last 25 years of the NRL era, the best coach I’ve seen has been Craig Bellamy, hands down.
The best team I’ve seen in the last 25 years, again, hands down, is the Penrith juggernaut of the last five years.
Neither the Melbourne Storm OR the Penrith Panthers have based their successes around buying superstars, in fact they both have a system of developing their own solid junior base and teaching the players to come through with fantastic systems and structures. Essentially every player knows his role on the field.
And this is something our coach has consistently failed at for 11 years. Now, it appears he’s finally figured out the blueprint for success, and the building blocks have been put in place for success in about another half a decade, but why has he taken this long?
And following on from that point, why was he completely unable to build anything from our successes of 2019/20, and in fact the team went completely backwards to the point an entirely new rebuild was even required?
He’s still a very poor coach, in my opinion, although I do have optimism for the recent steps he’s taken for both this season and the next three to four years.
But in the immortal words of Mark Gasnier, “when is enough, too nuff?”
We had a junior development philosophy from well before David Furner was coach here, but that fell apart because of player misbehaviour and the club getting the **** with losing all its promising juniors. Ricky tried the recruit model. Didn't get the premiership but the return was reasonable and now we're focusing again on those junior pathways. Why couldn't we do both when he arrived? Like NR suggested (and others) the results and general standard have been good but I just want to see a damn premiership.
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Yeah my recollection is the Raiders tried going down the path of developing their own players.
But that seemed to fail when the Roosters or Broncos would sign players when they were coming good. That and poor behaviour from players.
I thought Milford going to the Broncos was the last straw for the Canberra Raiders and at the time DFJ was very much sprouting the ‘there is no incentive in developing players’ line. Seemed very valid to me.
Ethan Sanders won’t seek early release to join Canberra Raiders: Parramatta Eels coach Brad Arthur
Brad Arthur says there is no chance Ethan Sanders will move to Canberra early, insistent the teenage half has told him he will see out 2024 at Parramatta. Sanders told Eels teammates this week he will head to Canberra next year, after finally agreeing terms with the Raiders.
“He’s come and fronted up and let us know that he’d be moving on,” Arthur said. “He’s told me to my face, and his manager has, that he’s not asking for a release this year. It’s good. He made an obligation to the team at the start of the year, and that’s a sign of the man he is.”
Full video for anyone interested - speaks about how Sanders wasn’t great in the trial against us and early rounds in cup he was okay but not ready for NRL. Has stepped up the last couple of weeks, become more confident.
Will play a 5/8 role - it’s about handling the physicality and kicking well when he gets a chance.
I love that he gets to play first grade this year - going to be very important for us in 2025.
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Not sure where anyone said that. It's mostly been talk about our coach or when the contract becomes official.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Not sure where anyone said that. It's mostly been talk about our coach or when the contract becomes official.
It would be a waste of their talent if we are not contending by 2026-27.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Not sure where anyone said that. It's mostly been talk about our coach or when the contract becomes official.
If we get to 2026-27 and this team is not seriously contending for premierships it will be a significant failure
Sorry those were direct quotes. I love the enthusiasm but there are a couple of things:
1. This is a very even competition (outside of the Panthers). Most teams have got decent players. It’s hard to say that we have got more talent than a lot of other teams (outside of bias)
2. On the spine debate, you have to note that certain positions are completely stacked for talent and others aren’t so it depends a lot on who progresses. Sanders if he became an elite halfback would be a massive advantage because there are not many great halfbacks going around. Fullback on the other hand there are plenty. Unless Chevy becomes Reece Walsh Mark II then you are not getting to get much advantage over other sides even if he becomes good-very good
3. There are still holes in this squad even if Sanders/Stewart/Strange become better than average. We need a dummy half desperately. We need a backrower or two. A couple of backs would also help. Heck Mooney and Mariota aren’t in a position to say that they can replace Papa confidently
Azza wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 5:13 pm
How come we aren't challenging for a premiership this year? Sanders has agreed to terms for next year for god's sake.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
That’s the spirit
Well come up with a counter argument then. I would say I’m being realistic. I agree it is our best chance but sometimes people need to not put undue pressure on young players as it is counterproductive
The Nickman wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 5:21 pm
Honestly, if we don’t win the comp this year, then Stuart should be given another 11 years
Don’t get me wrong I’m not a Stuart fan but have a look around at the coaches currently. There is a distinct lack of quality
I would prefer Bellamy Bennett and Cleary of course. Flanagan and Webster as well. But who else? Robinson should be making a grand final every year with the side he has. Then you have mid tier blokes like O’Brien. Then you have blokes who are just starting like Marshall and Ciraldo.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Not sure where anyone said that. It's mostly been talk about our coach or when the contract becomes official.
If we get to 2026-27 and this team is not seriously contending for premierships it will be a significant failure
I didn't scroll through the entire thread so no idea who said that
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
Not sure where anyone said that. It's mostly been talk about our coach or when the contract becomes official.
If we get to 2026-27 and this team is not seriously contending for premierships it will be a significant failure
I didn't scroll through the entire thread so no idea who said that
That is ok. I would love for them to be right but it is a hard comp to win despite the Panthers recent success
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
That’s the spirit
Well come up with a counter argument then. I would say I’m being realistic. I agree it is our best chance but sometimes people need to not put undue pressure on young players as it is counterproductive
Be both surprised and concerned if Sanders or any player read these forums for anything other than a laugh, so nothing said on here is adding any pressure to anyone.
He’s a great young talent so understandable that supporters will want to talk it up. Why throw cold water on that? It will be what it will be but I won’t criticise anyone for getting excited about the squad we are building.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
That’s the spirit
Well come up with a counter argument then. I would say I’m being realistic. I agree it is our best chance but sometimes people need to not put undue pressure on young players as it is counterproductive
I think it's impossible to say what will happen at this point. I agree, let's not get carried away. If a few things go our way we could be contending sooner that 26/27. The competition is so wide open at the moment.
I'm personally sceptical that Sanders, Strange and Stewart can all become elite players. Odds are that 1 of them (at least) won't reach great heights. However I'm hopeful.
Lots of things can happen in the game over a short period of time. There could be a guy on out books now that we haven't spoken much about who is better than all 3 of these guys.
Right now though, we have one of the best forward packs in the NRL. With that, we should be competitive in most games.
Colk wrote: ↑April 25, 2024, 3:09 pm
Look we need to cool our jets a little here. It’s promising that we signed a good young player but that is all it is: promising.
People stating that this means we should be challenging by 2026 or whatever is not only being disrespectful to history - I can only think of Manly with DCE, Foran and Ballin who’ve had three spine players debut within 24 months (or thereabouts) and go on and win a competition - but also disrespectful to other teams in the competition. Most teams in the competition have a good to very good fullback. Every other team has a better dummy half than us. Every other team has some decent backs and forwards.
That’s the spirit
Well come up with a counter argument then. I would say I’m being realistic. I agree it is our best chance but sometimes people need to not put undue pressure on young players as it is counterproductive
I think it's impossible to say what will happen at this point. I agree, let's not get carried away. If a few things go our way we could be contending sooner that 26/27. The competition is so wide open at the moment.
I'm personally sceptical that Sanders, Strange and Stewart can all become elite players. Odds are that 1 of them (at least) won't reach great heights. However I'm hopeful.
Lots of things can happen in the game over a short period of time. There could be a guy on out books now that we haven't spoken much about who is better than all 3 of these guys.
Right now though, we have one of the best forward packs in the NRL. With that, we should be competitive in most games.
If you're correct in that at least 1 out of the 3 won't develop to any great heights, I wonder which one. Strange has shown plenty thus far, and a lot of commentators are convinced Sanders will definitely be a quality NRL player. It's actually Stewart I'm most worried about. But who knows.
