2024 Round 4 v Sharks: Game Day

[Hong Kong Raider]

I love what Morgan Smithies does defensively, he works so hard and does a lot to cover up holes around that area... and im willing to give him time, it took the other english exports time
id like to see where he's at in 3-4 weeks time... but with the ball in hand, he's going to have to develop an offload at least. It's all early passing or straight up tackling bag with no threat

Not our biggest issue by any stretch, we've got much bigger issues to address right now than that, but it's on my radar a little bit.

Smithies adds nothing in attack. He's just a tackling machine.

[Rickmando]

I’m also Fogartys biggest hater but I’m giving him a shocker after the first 3 rounds.

Nothing against him as a bloke, and he’s a perfectly fine player to have in your 30 as a back-up half.

But we are paying him decent money to be our starting #7. And really that’s what is depressing, knowing that he is what we are wheeling out in the most important position on the park. We aren’t winning anything of significance with him there. He doesn’t give us any individual spark or anything to get excited about, and he can’t elevate those more talented around him either.

[Colk]

I’m not sure it matters who you replace him with.

He’s been out of form for nearly a year now - if you’ve tried everything else and he hasn’t responded by lifting his game then he needs a spell. He’s on too big of a contract for us to just hand-wave away how poorly he’s playing. He needs to shape up or ship out.

Sure I get that but this is the problem with the squad. If a prop has a bad game, we can replace him somebody like Mooney or Hola but there isn’t a second rower on our books.

Unless you want to play somebody like Mooney or Mariota at second rower and hear the inevitable complaints about how we are playing a middle on the edge.

We need to actually buy a second rower. We also need to buy a couple of backs, a dummy half and a fullback while we are at it

I'd prefer Logan Lewis over young at the moment.

Yeah and he is not in the top 30 and playing on the bench in reserve grade. Try again

That was my point.

Sure but you can’t play him. Who is somebody in our top 30 who can actually play 2nd row. Simi Sisagi is the only bloke I can think of and he is not good at all

[KingDynamite]

Weird game. I feel like Hoppa just became our second best winger and Horse I’m not sure he’s better than Guler, Saulo or Mooney

[Neeeegz]

I’m also Fogartys biggest hater but I’m giving him a shocker after the first 3 rounds.

His kicking tonight was not like it has been, I didn't see him launch any belly bombs, good 40/20 that I'm sure we **** up somehow, if he's our footy iq as a team, we are shot ducks.
He's only slightly smarter than wighton, and that's not a high bar to reach

[Joshjacksonshead]

Yeah how about we give him a bit of time to find his feet, and hold of on the pile on

[Bluesbrother]

Two of my favorite players had poor handling games tonight, Xav and Hors. Hors first game back in FG for the year. Schiller needs to learn how to tackle around the legs when his opponent is 10 mtrs from the line and he is the last line of defence. I felt sorry for Rapa in his 200th game for the Raiders and he tried his guts out as usual. Wingers must learn what to do defensively not only with ball in hand.

Positives for the match were that we took an 18 nil lead. Negative was to squander it by thinking the job was already done.
Of the Raiders players who played well I thought, Taps was good and Strange excellent defensively. Timoko good with the ball but beaten one on one without it. Saulo played well until his head knock. Those calling for Guler back cannot be serious based on his NSW Cup match. Levi was better in this game than any other match this year. Once again for the Raiders to lose the Faders tag, they need to play for 80 minutes at FG standard.

This is an accurate assessment. Guler's had since 2021 to impress. He hasn't. Still living in 2019. It's Mooney time.

I hope Savage and Schiller get an opportunity to redeem themselves

Savage will for sure. Schiller showed he was no more than a stop gap option.

[Canberra Milk]

I love what Morgan Smithies does defensively, he works so hard and does a lot to cover up holes around that area... and im willing to give him time, it took the other english exports time
id like to see where he's at in 3-4 weeks time... but with the ball in hand, he's going to have to develop an offload at least. It's all early passing or straight up tackling bag with no threat

Not our biggest issue by any stretch, we've got much bigger issues to address right now than that, but it's on my radar a little bit.

I agree, I think Horse last year at 13 offered more than Smithies. Agree not a big problem, but still

There were repeated errors by certain players today, but there was also more to it than that

[Neeeegz]

I’m also Fogartys biggest hater but I’m giving him a shocker after the first 3 rounds.

Nothing against him as a bloke, and he’s a perfectly fine player to have in your 30 as a back-up half.

But we are paying him decent money to be our starting #7. And really that’s what is depressing, knowing that he is what we are wheeling out in the most important position on the park. We aren’t winning anything of significance with him there. He doesn’t give us any individual spark or anything to get excited about, and he can’t elevate those more talented around him either.

Spot on. Never a truer sentence written

[Rickmando]

I’d pick him again next week.

Quality player who is short of a gallop. And I reckon he’d be filthy with the way he played.

I’d have him take it out on the Eels pack next week rather than some rando’s in NSW Cup

[Neeeegz]

Give Mooney a crack, he's got the fitness after his last 4 games in cup
Sure I get that but this is the problem with the squad. If a prop has a bad game, we can replace him somebody like Mooney or Hola but there isn’t a second rower on our books.

Unless you want to play somebody like Mooney or Mariota at second rower and hear the inevitable complaints about how we are playing a middle on the edge.

We need to actually buy a second rower. We also need to buy a couple of backs, a dummy half and a fullback while we are at it

I'd prefer Logan Lewis over young at the moment.

Yeah and he is not in the top 30 and playing on the bench in reserve grade. Try again

That was my point.

Sure but you can’t play him. Who is somebody in our top 30 who can actually play 2nd row. Simi Sisagi is the only bloke I can think of and he is not good at all

[Botman]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

[benda]

I think the Warriors game took a lot outta the tank. No reason for panic or alarms. We lost that match due to lack of concentration.

Nothing else has changed.

I think we need to stick with this squad and not chop and change all the time.

I hope Hosking is ok.

[Rickmando]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

[NoMan]

Smithies entire reason for been in the side is to take defensive workload off the props and particularly Tapine and Papa. The middle got carved up in the second half of last year. Horse can't do that and as a unit I think Smithies really only needs to be a tackle machine to make sense in the side.

I did think they went a bit away from using the middles only on the 4th and inside the opposition 50 tonight. Not sure if Ricky thought they would roll over the top so he changed it up, or it genuinely was Hoppa been absent.

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

We need to have a go at somebody better than Sanders imo

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

[mikeraider]

Noticed when Tapine and big papa was on it settle into a arm wrestle, Horse wrecked that with his crap, then there no steadying of the ship from our half back just panic football, need real team game manger, all about the individual today, young had his worst performance this year..
Time give mooney a shot again agree wouldn't hurt after the performance of the horse, hopefully he can hold to the ball at least.. please don't drop Savage he was good just teach him the NRL rules and just needs hang in tough his speed is needed, I believe strange having a better footy brain due his rep football..whitehead has the game experience and game management which was lacking out there, and Raps run himself into a freezy again, but need a young Raps doing that he absolutely buggered after the game.
if only we could held onto the ball longer in the first half would have put a few more tries, then with that momentum we couldn't have gone away with it, but pressure of Raps 200th game plus changes in the half's and forwards made us look like never played football together, it a shocking performance.

[Botman]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Yeah maybe! I havent sat down and really done the exercise. I know he's bottom 5-6 so i left it there.
I do think he's fine for where we are now... but yeah we need to be planning a pretty swift hand over to Sanders

[NoMan]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

We need to have a go at somebody better than Sanders imo

Who?

And please talk about players you've seen play more than once or twice and which are realistic targets.

[gangrenous]

There are a lot of over the top reactions here today, and my worry is it’ll be the same from Sticky.

Today was a case of many players having a bad game all at once.

I put a lot of blame on Rick for that - he doesn’t appear to coach scenarios well. The team needed leaders to step up when they let in the first try and say “right, safety first with the hit-ups to get the momentum back”.

Savage you saw later in the game change his running and ball security to not screw up again. He should have known (or had a leader remind) him that 10m and holding the ball was more critical than 15m and dropping it in the game scenario and field position.

Dropping Savage would be a dumb reaction to that. He’s a high upside player. You teach him the strategy of how to use it.

Same with Schiller - similar drop ball error and gave a winger a bit much space. But also scored one and saved a 3:1 too. Don’t baby out with the bath water here.

The one who really needs a rocket is Young who has delivered dross niggle for weeks on end. Needs to be read the riot act.

I’d be keen to see stats on games lost from 18-0 up. Surely Raiders have lost the most (because we don’t play strategically)

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Yeah maybe! I havent sat down and really done the exercise. I know he's bottom 5-6 so i left it there.
I do think he's fine for where we are now... but yeah we need to be planning a pretty swift hand over to Sanders

Why? People overrate youngsters and our lack of success is really pushing the hype button a little too far. Halfbacks outside of the real freaks like Nathan Cleary and Andrew Johns take years and years before they are good. He is probably 2-3 years away at best.

[Raider47]

We don't have enough tactical nous to cancel out the ill disciplined football.

Our game is COMPLETELY built around discipline. Not giving away cheap penalties or set restarts, not making errors in possession, not missing tackles. So when we don't respect these fundamentals like we didn't today we really don't have much to fall upon.

The best sides do. They can get away with making odd errors.

[Rickmando]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

[BadnMean]

Ricky needs to swing the axe this week.

Horsburgh and Savage must be dropped for a while after that performance.

Fog and Young should be put on notice.

Saulo shouldn’t make our top 17.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bit dramatic.

Hors is an origin rep who was short of a gallop.

Savage kept turning up and made some errors after starring early. Schiller disappeared after his errors.

We have absolutely no one alternate to Fog. i'd rather we expand the game plan to include ANY second kick option- hooker, 5/8 etc by round 4 than blame the halfback for being targeted who has been the sole option for 4 consecutive rounds...

Young needs to roll his sleeves up and recognise playing ugly in some games. Won't always be a star turn.

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

We need to have a go at somebody better than Sanders imo

Who?

And please talk about players you've seen play more than once or twice and which are realistic targets.

Somebody who is playing first grade now or who could play in the next 12 months. He is a 18 year old ****. He is years away and if you think you need replace Fogarty quickly then he isn’t your answer.

[Botman]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Yeah maybe! I havent sat down and really done the exercise. I know he's bottom 5-6 so i left it there.
I do think he's fine for where we are now... but yeah we need to be planning a pretty swift hand over to Sanders

Why? People overrate youngsters and our lack of success is really pushing the hype button a little too far. Halfbacks outside of the real freaks like Nathan Cleary and Andrew Johns take years and years before they are good. He is probably 2-3 years away at best.

If we sign him, he's coming into the the team a lot sooner than "2-3 years away at best."
That much i can assure you.

[exrefhollywood]

We led the comp 14 days ago.

Today we sit 8th

Should have called it off then…..No chance off getting back there after the dribble we produced tonight!!!!

[Finchy]

Ricky royally pissed off in the presser. No blaming refs which is good, not his standard petulant "What did you make of it?" retorts. Brutally honest.

[Raider47]

Less concerned with Horse than I am Hudson Young.

Horse was shocking today but it's one game. Young has been bad for a whole season and the brain fades of circa 2019-2021 have returned.

[exrefhollywood]

We led the comp 14 days ago.

Today we sit 8th

Should have called it off then…..No chance off getting back there after the dribble we produced tonight!!!!

I wish I was 500K a year to work for 20 minutes a week!!!!!!!

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

[Hong Kong Raider]

I'm not a big fan of Fog and think Strange offers more in attack but he's not the reason why we lost tonight. He's a big reason why we made the finals in 2022-23 and the wins in the first two games though.

The inexplicable errors is why we lost. Despite all the dropped ball in the 1st half, we had a chance at 18 all attacking in their 20 when Horse dropped it cold on tackle 2. Even Whitehead in the side would have been better.

[Rickmando]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Really? Have you watched any football. People really go overboard after a loss. Btw I’m not saying he is great but there are some very ordinary halves going around

I certainly have my friend.

I just did the exercise - the only two #7’s named in sides this week who I prefer Fog over are Drew Hutchison and Tanah Boyd.

There are some no-names running around for sure, but they’re all young. For mine, Fog has exhausted whatever upside he has - I would take my chances with the mystery box at this point.

So you’d rather Dean Hawkins? Aidan Sezar?
He is no worse than say Chad Townsend. The difference between us and say the Cowboys is that we don’t have other spine players like Tom Deardan, Scott Drinkwater or Reece Robson but instead have Jordan Rapana, Ethan Strange and Danny Levi.

Our problems run far greater than Jamal Fogarty.

Yes. Hawkins for the upside and yes to Sezer and Townsend - they’ve taken teams to grand finals and know how to play a simple game that elevates those around them. They can at least engage the line.

Fogarty just shovels the ball sideways, and has no vision for creating anything bar putting up a high ball and hoping

[Colk]

Re: Fog
Mostly he's been good, really good so far this year. He wasnt great tonight but i think that's just about his limitations. We're not talking about a top 8-10 half here
There is a reason the club is going hard at Sanders.

That’s generous Bot. There’s probably only 1 or 2 halfbacks in the comp I’m taking him in front of.

Yeah maybe! I havent sat down and really done the exercise. I know he's bottom 5-6 so i left it there.
I do think he's fine for where we are now... but yeah we need to be planning a pretty swift hand over to Sanders

Why? People overrate youngsters and our lack of success is really pushing the hype button a little too far. Halfbacks outside of the real freaks like Nathan Cleary and Andrew Johns take years and years before they are good. He is probably 2-3 years away at best.

If we sign him, he's coming into the the team a lot sooner than "2-3 years away at best."
That much i can assure you.

Well if that’s the case then it will be absolute **** sandwich and we will have to take a bite (to paraphrase Full Metal Jacket) He is a long way off.