Canberra Raiders miss out on David Fifita

[LimeGreenMachine]

We have had a dig at him a few times already. Now we arent mentioned, are we now not interested

[greeneyed]

We have had a dig at him a few times already. Now we arent mentioned, are we now not interested

The last report indicated that the Raiders aren’t going to call him. If he wants to call us, they’ll talk. Clearly they’ve had enough of being messed around. I expect other clubs are going to be messed around now.

[greeneyed]

Roosters offer $3.4 million to Fifita over four years. Less than his current deal of $1 million a year. According to Rothfield on NRL 360.

Penrith offering $850k over three years.

Dragons interested. Two other Sydney clubs have made late bids, presumably including the Roosters.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Roosters made big offer to Fifita for 4 years for $3.4 m. When Real Madrid and Manchester City chase, Burnley Raiders have no hope

[greeneyed]

All these deals are less than the deal he’s on! The salary cap is a joke if he’s not put on $1 million a year.

[Old School Green]

Getting crazy now the Rorters have offered as well as Saints and Panfers.

Would be highly amusing if he snubbed all of them and this circus that has been created and the whole time Donny has been working the back channels quietly and he signs here.

Highly unlikely and in all honestly I kind of have zero care about it now and have for some time.

[LimeGreenMachine]

Lose money and go to Roosters or Panthers
Go to Dragons more money but basket case of a club.
Stay at Titans more money than Panthers and Roosters .
What is his girlfriend doing these days

[Hong Kong Raider]

Getting crazy now the Rorters have offered as well as Saints and Panfers.

Would be highly amusing if he snubbed all of them and this circus that has been created and the whole time Donny has been working the back channels quietly and he signs here.

Highly unlikely and in all honestly I kind of have zero care about it now and have for some time.

Do you trust Furner (and Ricky) to sign any actual FG and not players looking to break into FG (Weekes/Sasagi/Sanders/Stewart)?

[Hong Kong Raider]

All these deals are less than the deal he’s on! The salary cap is a joke if he’s not put on $1 million a year.

The Roosters, Souths and the powerful clubs are the legislators. They write the law. Case in point: SBW in 2020

[Ron78]

Getting crazy now the Rorters have offered as well as Saints and Panfers.

Would be highly amusing if he snubbed all of them and this circus that has been created and the whole time Donny has been working the back channels quietly and he signs here.

Highly unlikely and in all honestly I kind of have zero care about it now and have for some time.

Do you trust Furner (and Ricky) to sign any actual FG and not players looking to break into FG (Weekes/Sasagi/Sanders/Stewart)?

Hosking


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[Hong Kong Raider]

Hosking was not a consistent FG at any of his clubs.

Fans expect better and not mediocrity. We have suffered for 30 years as Magic Round celebrations will highlight.

[Bluesbrother]

850k at the Roosters is about the same as 1 million at the Titans. Therein lies the problem of the salary cap. However, it's good business from the Roosters. They are doing what they are allowed to do and marketing themselves well. We'd have to pay 1.2 to match that. I don't think he's a good signing for that sort of money.

I'd go to Penrith if I was him. Premiership probability is high.

[NoMan]

Under normal circumstances a club losing half their roster wouldn't be in a premiership window. The Roosters probably increase their chances when they do though. The comp is very cooked in a lot of ways.

[Bluesbrother]

We need a system where clubs have more power over players. The draft system in the US essentially entitles the clubs ownership of the players for a set period. I think in baseball their initial deal is somewhere in the vicinity of 6 years. Clubs then earn transfer fees if they decide to trade them. We desperately need a draft in the NRL. In saying that, there are still dominant clubs in the US sports. It comes down to good business management.

[Bluesbrother]

Under normal circumstances a club losing half their roster wouldn't be in a premiership window. The Roosters probably increase their chances when they do though. The comp is very cooked in a lot of ways.

Penrith with Cleary will always be a threat IMO.

[Botman]

We need a system where clubs have more power over players. The draft system in the US essentially entitles the clubs ownership of the players for a set period. I think in baseball their initial deal is somewhere in the vicinity of 6 years. Clubs then earn transfer fees if they decide to trade them. We desperately need a draft in the NRL. In saying that, there are still dominant clubs in the US sports. It comes down to good business management.

You'll get no arguements from me about the NRL needing a draft. You'll get a lot of old men yelling at clouds about it on this site though. So best of luck with that.

But re: player empowerment, i dont think the toothpaste is going back in the tube anytime soon. The players have realised now they actually hold the power and the clubs will almost ALWAYS give in to their demands because it's the players who drive the game. They hold the ultimate power. That's not changing any time soon
You can add things like a draft or longer contracts to try and give clubs more control, but even leagues with long rookie contracts, with arbitration processes for salary, franchise tags, trades, with drafts etc... measures which give clubs a lot power on paper, it doesnt matter a lick. Players in those leagues are still able to pretty much get their way every time and that's not changing.

[greeneyed]

850k at the Roosters is about the same as 1 million at the Titans. Therein lies the problem of the salary cap. However, it's good business from the Roosters. They are doing what they are allowed to do and marketing themselves well. We'd have to pay 1.2 to match that. I don't think he's a good signing for that sort of money.

I'd go to Penrith if I was him. Premiership probability is high.

That is why the salary cap auditor should be told by the ARLC that they have lost sight of market valuations and must start to value a Fifita at $1 million no matter where he goes. There's the spectre of "third party deals" around as well... which also undermine the credibility of the cap.

[LimeGreenMachine]

Moley tweeting Bent will be signing for a Sydney club

[NoMan]

External draft would help and most likely would make it through the courts. Internal draft won't ever get over the line again. Trading would be great but no chance the players allow it, they reckon you need an entire offseason to relocate. Contract restrictions like max contracts would help but the players will block it. The NRL will never beat the players when it comes to this stuff, they don't even allow salaries to be published and the NRL has no real leverage.

I was thinking a rookie contract system might work, but you could have a 2 or 3 "keeper" players at 19 each club developed where you get them on a 4 year rookie contract with restricted free agency afterwards. The rest of the rookies could go into a draft. It would add a lot of interest and at least then you would have a chance to retain a core of players long enough.

I hate the NRL player market, apart from been massively unfair it's boring and predictable compared to other sports. It's way better in other sports and adds a heap of entertainment and interest and teams can genuinely manage their way up the ladder. I think it's showing in the lack of parity in the NRL a bit now as well which was always way overstated, NBA at least has far more parity and is less predictable recently.

[Botman]

It's a point i have made many times and will continue to make it
You'll never get talent parity with a salary cap and salary cap alone, the primary design of a salary cap and it's intent was never about parity. It was to cap wages at a level that allows the league/clubs to be profitable and not have smaller clubs go broke trying to keep up with the Jones'

If you want parity of talent across the competition, you need other levers applied to minipulate the workforce and even then, as bluesbrother is right to point out - It comes down to good business management.

[President Clinton]

Moley tweeting Bent will be signing for a Sydney club

Get Bent.

[Old School Green]

Hosking was not a consistent FG at any of his clubs.

Fans expect better and not mediocrity. We have suffered for 30 years as Magic Round celebrations will highlight.

Definitely take your point but not sure what else we could do here really? He obviously just didn’t want to come.

I’m actually glad he’s not tbf; spare a thought for the titans atm. I’d be ropeable if this guy was playing for us and creating this circus mid circus.

[El_Capitano]

They should never have given him these bulldookie get out clauses! Ridiculous decision!


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[Bluesbrother]

850k at the Roosters is about the same as 1 million at the Titans. Therein lies the problem of the salary cap. However, it's good business from the Roosters. They are doing what they are allowed to do and marketing themselves well. We'd have to pay 1.2 to match that. I don't think he's a good signing for that sort of money.

I'd go to Penrith if I was him. Premiership probability is high.

That is why the salary cap auditor should be told by the ARLC that they have lost sight of market valuations and must start to value a Fifita at $1 million no matter where he goes. There's the spectre of "third party deals" around as well... which also undermine the credibility of the cap.

I agree. It was the same with Wighton.

It's hard though because certain players are worth more to certain clubs. Ponga for example, is a player Newcastle couldn't afford to lose - they would immediately be in a rebuild if he left so they are forced to pay more.

Us, with a younger squad, we can probably afford to pay more for edge forwards or middles than others - the depth of our squad is also quite good comparatively. Storm take a different approach with a star studded spine and a bunch of plodders making up the numbers.

The salary cap is doing something. But it's not enough.

In the case of the Roosters though, you can't deny they are a well run organisation who consistently makes good decisions. The same can be said for Melbourne. So credit where it is due - they are good at what they do.

It's a very tough one for the NRL.

[greeneyed]

850k at the Roosters is about the same as 1 million at the Titans. Therein lies the problem of the salary cap. However, it's good business from the Roosters. They are doing what they are allowed to do and marketing themselves well. We'd have to pay 1.2 to match that. I don't think he's a good signing for that sort of money.

I'd go to Penrith if I was him. Premiership probability is high.

That is why the salary cap auditor should be told by the ARLC that they have lost sight of market valuations and must start to value a Fifita at $1 million no matter where he goes. There's the spectre of "third party deals" around as well... which also undermine the credibility of the cap.

I agree. It was the same with Wighton.

It's hard though because certain players are worth more to certain clubs. Ponga for example, is a player Newcastle couldn't afford to lose - they would immediately be in a rebuild if he left so they are forced to pay more.

Us, with a younger squad, we can probably afford to pay more for edge forwards or middles than others - the depth of our squad is also quite good comparatively. Storm take a different approach with a star studded spine and a bunch of plodders making up the numbers.

The salary cap is doing something. But it's not enough.

In the case of the Roosters though, you can't deny they are a well run organisation who consistently makes good decisions. The same can be said for Melbourne. So credit where it is due - they are good at what they do.

It's a very tough one for the NRL.

If they’re worth more to some clubs… that’s the salary cap working! That’s the market establishing the market value! Houses sell at the highest price. No reason it should be different here. The aim is to distribute the talent more widely. The aim of the cap is very clearly two fold, and one plainly stated objective is to spread the talent. The aim of the cap is not to screw the teams at the bottom of the ladder so the top teams can recruit whoever they want. But that’s what is happening as the NRL is too afraid to enforce the cap.


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[greeneyed]

External draft would help and most likely would make it through the courts. Internal draft won't ever get over the line again. Trading would be great but no chance the players allow it, they reckon you need an entire offseason to relocate. Contract restrictions like max contracts would help but the players will block it. The NRL will never beat the players when it comes to this stuff, they don't even allow salaries to be published and the NRL has no real leverage.

I was thinking a rookie contract system might work, but you could have a 2 or 3 "keeper" players at 19 each club developed where you get them on a 4 year rookie contract with restricted free agency afterwards. The rest of the rookies could go into a draft. It would add a lot of interest and at least then you would have a chance to retain a core of players long enough.

I hate the NRL player market, apart from been massively unfair it's boring and predictable compared to other sports. It's way better in other sports and adds a heap of entertainment and interest and teams can genuinely manage their way up the ladder. I think it's showing in the lack of parity in the NRL a bit now as well which was always way overstated, NBA at least has far more parity and is less predictable recently.

What might help is an internal draft but definitely not an external draft. The latter is fundamentally inconsistent with rugby league’s development system in Australia, which consistently churns out the best footy talent in either rugby code anywhere in the world. What you’re suggesting completely undermines one of rugby league’s comparative advantages. As it removes incentives for clubs to develop players. Which is what a footy club should fundamentally be about.

An internal draft would certainly pass through the courts. It would clearly be in the interest of the code.


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[Seiffert82]

If Fifita went to either the Roosters or Panthers for unders it just reinforces many of the issues I have with him.

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[Seiffert82]

There's no good reason the Titans shouldn't be a successful NRL franchise. They of all teams shouldn't need a draft to build a squad.

They just recruit and retain too many players who play without heart.

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[Botman]

If Fifita went to either the Roosters or Panthers for unders it just reinforces many of the issues I have with him.

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Go on...

[Botman]

An internal draft would certainly pass through the courts. It would clearly be in the interest of the code.

A key first step

[Shiv]

I can't see him coming here either. However, I suspect its because the Raiders have somewhat tapped out. They've put their offer on the table and made their intentions clear. Raiders don't tend to move on a "final offer".
And, I can see where they are going with this, especially with a guy like Fifta. He needs to want to come to the Raiders, put in the hard yards and stay for a long time. I know we all joke about bleeding green etc, but from a culture perspective it does make sense. We don't want a guy that seemingly triggers his escape clauses whenever he can - whether that to test the market, put the wind up his current club, or just cause its fun watching the media circus. Ultimately its not good for the club, and the instablity it brings is certainly something we don't want. I really do rate him as a player, and would be stoked if he came. But he'd need to want to come here, and I suspect he just wants big $$ and an easy ride. (hey lets face it, who doesn't???). Assuming he wants that, they we are not the club for him.

[-TW-]

There's no good reason the Titans shouldn't be a successful NRL franchise. They of all teams shouldn't need a draft to build a squad.

They just recruit and retain too many players who play without heart.

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Probably because they attract the wrong cohort of player, and the players they need deliberately stay away from the potential for trouble there

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[Botman]

I genuinely dont believe very many, if any, elite sports people are looking for an "easy ride"
At least not in the way i see that term.
It takes a lot to get to this level, the talent, the sacrifice and dedication... these are generally speaking, insanely competitive people. Irrationally confident people. You kind of have to be built that sort of way.
There are rare cases who are so gifted that that can succeed at the highest levels with a lack of drive and competitive spirit, and maybe Fifita is a talent so significant that he could be one of them... but he'd be an outlier
I watch him play every week, that dude puts in every week. He impacts games every week. The nature of his position is that he is not as impactful as other players like hookers, halves and fullbacks, but he doesnt shirk **** man
Watch the games. He's ALWAYS involved.

He might be comfortable and happy and satisified with his situation but "easy"? Doesnt exsist at this level.

[denissnowy]

External draft would help and most likely would make it through the courts. Internal draft won't ever get over the line again. Trading would be great but no chance the players allow it, they reckon you need an entire offseason to relocate. Contract restrictions like max contracts would help but the players will block it. The NRL will never beat the players when it comes to this stuff, they don't even allow salaries to be published and the NRL has no real leverage.

I was thinking a rookie contract system might work, but you could have a 2 or 3 "keeper" players at 19 each club developed where you get them on a 4 year rookie contract with restricted free agency afterwards. The rest of the rookies could go into a draft. It would add a lot of interest and at least then you would have a chance to retain a core of players long enough.

I hate the NRL player market, apart from been massively unfair it's boring and predictable compared to other sports. It's way better in other sports and adds a heap of entertainment and interest and teams can genuinely manage their way up the ladder. I think it's showing in the lack of parity in the NRL a bit now as well which was always way overstated, NBA at least has far more parity and is less predictable recently.

What might help is an internal draft but definitely not an external draft. The latter is fundamentally inconsistent with rugby league’s development system in Australia, which consistently churns out the best footy talent in either rugby code anywhere in the world. What you’re suggesting completely undermines one of rugby league’s comparative advantages. As it removes incentives for clubs to develop players. Which is what a footy club should fundamentally be about.

An internal draft would certainly pass through the courts. It would clearly be in the interest of the code.


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I've been thinking a bit about a draft today.

An external draft could work, but only if development is funded centrally. You can still have club academies like they do in the AFL, and methods for the club to access their must keeps. I agree it wouldn't work under the current development funding model, i.e. clubs paying.

Where I think an external draft doesn't necessarily work is due to age. The min age to enter the draft in the AFL is 18. Due to the nature of that game the recruiters have a really good idea as to whether a player is likely to kick on. The top 10 - 15 selections in any given draft class are usually a sure bet from a talent perspective (with any player in the top 10 a good chance to debut their first year), 16 - 30 are usually a pretty good bet and debut within their rookie contract term (can't remember if it's 2 or 3 years).Beyond that it becomes pretty speculative.

Due to the physical attributes needed to play NRL, I don't think you would get the same hit rate of ready made 1st graders in the top 15 and perhaps not a similar consistency of the top 30 players going on to play 1st grade as what you get in AFL. So because of that it would really become a talent identification draft, with the expectation that for the most part you're not going to see those kids in 1st grade for 3-4 years. That would then be the club's role to develop them into first graders. I think in an NRL draft you'll also end up with more late draftees becoming rep quality players than you do in AFL (diamonds in the rough), particularly wrt prop forwards. No idea if this was the case, but think of someone like horse in a draft class. Lots of puppy fat, looks like he is worth a punt, but no certainty. Taken by Raiders at pick 45 and turns out to be origin quality

The internal draft is also something I've been musing upon. As an idea to give the needy clubs access to the talent they want and to maximise a players earnings perhaps a draft/auction would be interesting, whereby whoever has first pick selects player X and offers them $y. That then commences an auction process with player X going to the highest bidder. If the club making the first pick didn't get the player, they then get to pick again.

Anyway just a few random thoughts that came up for me today.

[Seiffert82]

If Fifita went to either the Roosters or Panthers for unders it just reinforces many of the issues I have with him.

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Go on...

Nah. It's all been said.

This is a circus. Sign a contract. Commit to your club and teammates.

I appreciate you and others may have different opinions.

In saying that, the Gold Coast was weak in offering those ridiculous clauses to a marquee player.